So I finally got my car back together today and took it for a test drive and it has the same problem. When I press in the clutch, there is a squeaking noise and the further I push the clutch in, the lower the idle drops until the car dies. I replaced the clutch and installed a new throwout bearing. The sound is EXACTLY the same as before so I doubt it would be the new TOB. Please help if anyone has seen this before. Also, when I use other accessories, the idle drops really low (I.E. rolling up windows, etc.)

 

Telling us the year, miles, things you've checked, etc might give you a hope of getting advice.

there's 2 engines, 2 trannies, and 2 completely different shifters in the 5th generation. Update your User Profile so it shows your car at the very least.

 

Yeah, good thinking, sorry about that, I was so frustrated last night. It is a 2003 Maxima SE 6 Speed with 87000 miles. The car developed an issue where it would stall when I pushed in the clutch and it became very frequent. I figured it was a throw out bearing or pressure plate issue as I could push the clutch in very slightly and hear a squeaking/squealing sound like rubber on metal and the further I push in the clutch, the lower the idle goes until it eventually stalls. I replaced the clutch, pressure plate, and TOB with an exedy oem kit and as soon as I started it, the car has the exact same problem. Now I'm thinking it seems like crank walk but I've never heard of that on a VQ35, especially with this low miles.

 

What circumstances does it stall? Only when you are idling and push the clutch in, or will it do it when you shift gears on the road?

 

Yeah this makes absolutely NO sense, you're leaving out crucial details EG. Is the car moving? Are you in gear or out of gear?

 

It stalls any time I push the clutch in and hold it regardless of circumstances. The car is driveable but it's like there is drag on the motor when I press the clutch pedal in.

 

So if you're sitting at a light in neutral, clutch up... car is fine..... But as soon as you press the clutch in..... wub wub wub... dead?

 

Exactly. More details dude.

If you have the transmission in neutral and push the clutch in it stalls?

 

Is the pedal soft or has engagement changed? does it leak fluid? have you checked hydro system? try bleeding it?

 

All, thanks for the responses. Yes, exactly ^^. Also, the engagement point is lower but that is because it's a new clutch and there is no soft pedal etc. The clutch grabs fine, no slipping or chatter. The lines werent disconnected during install nor was the clutch system bled and this problem was happening before I installed the new clutch (as I thought the clutch was the problem). The fluid level is fine as well.

To reiterrate, ANY time I press the clutch regardless of whether I'm sitting and idling or between shifts, I hear a noise like squeak squeak squeak and the idle drops proportionally to how far I press the clutch pedal. If I push the clutch to the floor, the car stalls. It's like pressing the clutch is creating resistance on the crank.

 

Ok. It's official, this problem is wierdddd.....

 

The only thing I can think of is that the clutch fork could be bent causing it to push the TO bearing at a strange angle. I think that that would caues a lot of binding in the pedal though.

There could also be a crack in the "snout" that the TO bearing slides on. If that happens it could flex and push into the imput shaft. It could also cause the TO to come in contact with the pressure plate at a strange angle. That could explain why it happens in neutral too with no binding at the pedal.

Were there any unusual marks on the old pressure plate or TO bearing? It might help if you could post pics of the old parts.

Did the original problem start gradually and get worse or did it just happen all at once?

 

Pictures of original parts below. As you can see, there is even wear on the TOB, PP, and clutch disk. The TOB is "crusty" when you spin it but the issue didnt change at all with a brand new one.

 

Also, I had my wife push the clutch in and out and the crank pully doesnt move at all so I dont think it's a thrust bearing issue...

 

How can you know thisif this is happening?

 

This is super weird.

Lets at least have more answers.

When you say "press down" on the clutch... How far down are we going? Is it as soon as you begin to press it, like can you hold the clutch half way and the car will die down? Or do you have to press the clutch all the way down?

How do you start the car?

Does your cruise control work?

Have you tried holding your foot on the gas while having the clutch all the way down?

And I have to ask again for clarity sake.

Does this problem happen both while the vehicle is moving? and while the vehicle is stationary?

 

If I hit the gas a little to get the revs up, then press the clutch in and drive while feathering the throttle, I'm able to avoid stalling. I.E. I can sit in neutral and hit the gas and press the clutch and the car wont stall unless I let go of the gas. If I press the clutch half way down, the revs drop a little bit and I hear a squealing sound. The farther I press the clutch down, the more the idle drops until the car stalls. The car starts but is slow to crank (like there is drag on the engine).

Also, not sure on cruise control, only drove around the neighborhood and yes, this problems happens when the vehicle is moving and when the vehicle is staionary.

 

With the new details I'm going to have to stick to my original idea. I think you have a problem with the snout that's letting it flex and contact the imput shaft.

Either way, it's going to have to come back apart for inspection.

 

^^Please answer this also.


It sounds to me like the clutch isn't fully disengaging from the flywheel and the transmission is still in gear.


But HOW DO YOU START YOUR CAR? You obviously need the clutch in to start the car, so if it stalls when you have clutch in, this would cause a problem with starting/idling the car, what is this scenario like?

And What condition is the flywheel in? I assume it wasn't replaced? is it OEM?

 

Also, please let us know if the original problem started gradually or all of a sudden.

 

This is a hum dinger aint it?

 

Yes, if the trans is in neutral and I push the clutch in, it stalls.

The car starts but if I hold the clutch in after the car starts, it will stall. I start it by holding the clutch in, cranking it until it starts, and releasing the clutch immediately. The cranking is slower than when I first had this problem so there is some kind of drag on the motor when the clutch pedal is pressed.

The flywheel was resurfaced and had some blueing but it wasnt warped or cracked. It was just surfaced enough to create a good surface for the clutch to bed in to.

 

The original problem was intermittent and got really bad the last time I drove the car. It would stall occasionally when I pushed the clutch in and I thought it was the MAF or something.

 

Thanks, I did double ask some questions. His 2nd response was much clearer to me.

Considering the oddity every tiny little bit of info/clairfication will change this.

Anyways, I was pretty sure you had a problem with the flywheel, let me explain why:

When you derpress the clutch pedal the clutch friction disc moves away from the flywheel. If the flywheel is out of balance, out of round, warped, etc, it will be VERY hard for the engine to keep a steady idle.

Once the clutch is engaged (pedal up), the pressure applied to the flywheel would straighten things out, increase the mass, and thus make idling much easier.

There's 2 things wrong with this theory though:

1. You said it squeeks.
2. Slow cranking on startup

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Please tell us exactly what you did/didn't replace, did you get a full clutch kit or just a friction disc and pressure plate?

Who did the work? Was everything properly cleaned and torqued evenly?

FYI: Any blue'ing' on a flywheel IS WARPAGE. the metal deforms. That flywheel is junk by definition.

 

Also we need to know the engine's running condition when it's 'good' and not stalling (clutch out). Does it run rough, idle bad, over fuel, how is your mileage, any engine codes, etc.

 

VAIT UN MINUTTEEEE!!! Chuner-macks is on to something...

He does have almost the same FW setup as us so he would know what he's talking about.

Dual Mass Flywheel's do suck!!!!! I'm on board for this flywheel nonsense, but to rule out electrical issues please test your cruise control.

 

The pressure plate, throwout bearing, and clutch disk were replaced using the Exedy OEM kit. Everything was torqued to spec and cleaned up by me and a friend. There arent any vibrations fealt through the clutch pedal which I would expect if the flywheel wasnt true or was out of balance.

Also, when testing cruise control to elliminate electrical issues, what am I looking for?

Thanks again for all of your responses!

 

Just to see if it works

When you test it... I want you to tape the ASCD sensor on the clutch closed (Clutch always up... Meaning tape the button so the car always thinks the clutch is up) then see if your problem continues.

Also do you have any ABS codes by any chance?

I think I'm out of any crazy electrical ideas....

 

While we're all throwing in our 2 cents I would like to join Tuner on his assumption.

The DMF is hated by some, but it's really an awesome mechanism. However, you can't treat it like a solid FW. It can be resurfaced, but there are two caveats. 1. The DMF must be inspected properly to determine if it can be reused. 2. The resurfacing must be done by an experienced individual with the correct machine and adapters.

Resurfacing a FW is not just about making it look good cosmetically. It is about removing stress cracks and excessive hotspots(the discoloring Tuner was speaking of) while also keeping the surface true. With the DMF, the surface inspection is secondary. If the spring in the DMF is not within tolerances, things can get sideways quickly. The amount of torque delivered to the rotation of the huge mass known as the DMF is large to say the least. When the pedal is 'up', the pressure plate is clamping the friction disc which is connected to the input shaft of the transmission. When the pedal is 'down', the clamping forced is released by the friction disc and the flywheel no longer has the added restraint of the transmission. If the DMF is damaged, it is possible that the cyclically described squeaking is caused by a lateral movement of the flywheel causing slight rubbing in the bellhousing. If this is the case, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that the more lateral movement the FW has, the greater signal reading variation the crank sensor has. Perhaps, the flywheel is moving enough to negatively affect the hall sensor. It does need to have a consistent reading. And it would make sense that the less connection with the transmission(pedal down and clutch disc completely disengaged) the more the flywheel lateral movement it would be subjected to if it was defective. That could cause the stalling.

 

Update, I went messing around with it again and it went from bad to worse. So it doesnt have the issue when cold. I could push the clutch in and release it while idling with no issues before the car warmed up. Once the car warmed up, it started having the issue when I press the clutch. Press a little, RPM drop a little, press harder, RPMs drop more. So now I have a CEL P0021 and P0011 for intake and exhaust cam timing over advanced. If it were the flywheel, it would do it regardless of operating temp.

 

You can certainly diag it to confirm that, but don't shelf the idea just yet. EC-172 to EC-173 gives the diagnostic procedure for IVT Control codes P0011 and P0022. Step 6 is the component inspection of the crankshaft position sensor(POS). It wouldn't take much to jump to EC-336 and inspect that sensor.

 

1. You didn't do the clutch cover??????


2. Nelledge is right. You need to diagnose that timing sensor circuit.
IIRC you have to remove the CKPS to do the clutch. Also the timing ring could have been damaged during machining or removed and reinstalled improperly. Similarly if it's not running perfectly true it will give a false sensor reading just like an ABS sensor does with a bad wheel bearing.

This puts the Flywheel being at fault higher up the list.

When cold your engine runs a very basic map to warm up, sensor imputs aren't taken too much into effect.

Once @ op temp though, those sensors become VERY important. Your engine uses it to increase/decrease timing, etc. Don't rule the Flywheel out, it's simply the importance of the sensor at cold temps that changes, not the flywheel's positioning or runout.

 

The clutch cover is the PP and that was replaced. Good call, I would laugh if it was the CKPS all along. I'll get one online and see what happens when I throw it in there.

 

I'm not saying the sensor is at fault, if that's how you interpreted that.

The sensor itself is not likely the component at fault here. Rather, the Flywheel/timing ring that it gets it signal from, or the sensor mounting surface.

And yes the Clutch cover comes with a new PP. But you CAN replace the PP separate in most applications. Just wanted clarification. Especially because the Cover is the primary component that could be causing a squeak, and is the primary transfer component for spring energy when you press the clutch down. If something is at fault here other than electronics or the flywheel, it's that clutch cover.

 

After work now so I re-read this whole thing. I'd like to revisit three things:

1. Did you replace the Pilot bushing? A pilot bushing that is mushroomed over, deformed, etc, or an imput shaft that was mal-alligned during install would cause an interferance fit between the imput shaft and the Pilot bushing (which is in the end of the crankshaft).

Where I'm going with this:

When you press the clutch in (disengage the clutch), the crankshaft, flywheel, clutch cover, and pilot bushing keep spinning. The Imput shaft doesn't. If the Pilot bushing and Imput shaft are crammed tight to one-another, this would cause a squeeling/noise as well as bring the engine mechanically to a slower speed.

This is unlikely, but possible. Brainstorming. Given the codes and recent development that it doesn't happen when cold makes me think this is not the cause.

There IS a way to check this though. Drive doing 60 MPH (any higher speed, doesn't need to be precise). Keep vehicle in gear, ie. 5th gear.
Then push the clutch in, keep transmission in gear. Does the engine still shed RPM's and die?


2. You won't feel an out of balance flywheel like you think you would. It's not like a Rim/Tire that is out of balance. The crankshaft operates in 'surges' of speed, not one constant speed. The flywheel is designed to absorb some of these surges to even the RPM output, which helps ease your idle and cuts NVH (noise vibration harshness) down.

Likewise a flywheel out of balance can be absorbed by itself because it's dual-mass. It's a strange concept. Also, the engine will absorb these imbalances.

More often than not, you need something fairly large out of balance to be noticed, and normally, you only notice it at a certain RPM, not across the whole range.

This issue, if present, would also only be really evident when you have the clutch pedal down (clutch disengaged), and at that time, you DO have a lot of vibration, stalling, etc. Just something to chew on.



This post knocks the Pilot bushing assumption, as well as the TOB/Clutch cover issue down the list of suspects. Quoted for importance in this matter

3. Your front drivetrain. More specifically, your belts. Where is this squeeking, etc coming from? You also said earlier that you found the engine had a tougher time when your A/C, etc was running? If there's a problem in your Front drivetrain it could be blurring our vision on this. Make sure you check it out to eliminate it as a possiblity.

This leads to something we really need to know at this point also, Where the heck is this squeek coming from, and can you videotape it? We NEED to know if it's related or not.

 

Thanks again for the replies. I'll mess around with it more and see if I can take a video. The car was idling pretty poorly once it threw the P0021 and P0011 so I turned it off and walked away. Saturday is my getting other stuff done day so I may not have an update until early next week.

 

OK, installed the new crankshaft position sensor and that did not fix the problem. I plugged in the Cipher cable to monitor the cam timing as it's still throwing a P0011 and P0021. I am leaning towards some sort of electrical short in the timing circuit and or ECU that is part if not all of the problem. The chirping sound is subdued and doesnt get worse depending on how far the clutch is in. I think it's one or both of the cam phasers trying to position the cam beyond spec and making the sound. The base cam timing is within spec regardless of throttle position but I did notice the timing jumps up when I push on the clutch (without giving it gas). Circuit/wiring issues are like a needle in a hay stack but I'm working on isolating the cam timing circuitry and will test the resistance on the sensors. Additionally, I'll run the car for a bit today and post some Cipher logs.

 

Clutch application/disengagement changes engine load. Not a ton, but it does. If you have a mechanical issue causing extra load that could play in also.
Load changes change timing and fueling to compensate for changes in load. It will do the same thing when your alternator kicks in, or your A/C turns on.

I said it a few times, I don't think the actual sensor is the problem here. Not sure why you bothered changing it at all, it's no surprise that changing it did nothing. We already said that it's probably NOT the sensor itself, rather, it's likely wiring or the timing pickup on the flywheel.

I wouldn't be focussing on cam timing AT ALL, looking at base timing is a great idea, and if it's GOOD (base timing), then there's not a problem there.
The engine runs timing off the crank, it only uses the Cam sensor(s) momentarily on start up, and intermittently through operation to double check things. Once the engine knows which cylinder is at TDC on compression, it runs off the crank sensor only.

 

Am I the only one that thinks this could very well be a clutch master cylinder issue? Or even a slave cylinder issue?

I had a similar problem in my old AE86, though it wouldn't completely stall and die, but the RPM's would drop to well below normal until the car began to stumble. Replaced the master cylinder (there were other signs that pointed to the master cylinder as well though), and never had the problem again after that. Might be worth checking. I don't see how it could be cam sensors, or crank sensor or any of that when we're talking about a clutch, but maybe that's just me.

-Nathan

 

If it didn't do it in neutral, yes. The fact that it stalls in neutral pretty much eliminates external cluch actuation issues (pedal, hydraulics)