Gugs

To the owners of 2002/2003 models with the VQ35DE,

Have you had the pinging issue during light cruising loads at 1700-2000 rpm? Have you been able to fix the problem? I love the car but the pinging is driving me crazy. So far, I have been running 91 octane fuel, checked the resistance values on the KS, and changed the in-tank fuel filter in an attempt to resolve the pinging issue. One thing that I noticed while monitoring the timing on the OBD2 scanner/reader is that when the engine is pinging, the timing does not retard at all. Is this a sign of a bad KS?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

I'm guessing you don't have much access to 93 octane (yay cali ) ?

This is a very random problem. Some always ping, some never do and some only when using lower than 91/93 octane (weather dependent, too).

It would appear that the KS isn't working, but who knows with this pos ecu.

UncleSmitty

iTrader: (1)

If you can, try to switch over to 93.

Gugs

Unfortunately, 91 is the highest available where I'm at.

I also forgot to mention that the maf has been cleaned.

Perhaps the KS is bad even though the resistance tests ok. I should be able to watch the timing get pulled back during knock/ping... nada.

DjHackStyle

happened to me, i ran 1 tank of 87 i was knocking bad then i ran 1 tank of 91 and was still knocking i had to run 6 tanks of 93 to get rid of the knocking completely, and 2 of the tanks i used fuel treatments. if ur using 91 try fuel treatments, if not then ur screwed till u can find 93 and run full tanks of it 100% of the time

Gugs

Well I have a 76 nearby that sells 100 octane at the pump. I could do a 50/50 mix to get the octane up into the mid 90's just for testing purposes. If this does cure the pinging issue, I'm not sure what to do next because filling up with the expensive stuff isn't practical.

Regarding the timing not retarding when the pinging is heard... I'm guessing a bad KS, KS wiring, or even a bad ECU.

Can the KS be replaced without the removal of the lower intake manifold?

T_Behr904

This is off topic but I couldn't help but notice that you have a Cannondale Prophet in your Other Beaters list. I have a Rush myself.

DjHackStyle

Whats the price on 100 octane gas? Fix the pinging first and if ur KS sensor isnt afecting ur car dont touch it

Gugs

The Rush is a sweet ride! Post pics! =]

100 octane is over $6/gal.

I'm wondering if a faulty KS is the reason that the ignition timing isn't retarding when the engine is pinging...

T_Behr904

Different handlebars before the Monkeylite went on...

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the catch can. Do a little search. You'll come across many members that have done this mod and attested to a reduction in pinging. It's a straight-forward and fairly cheap mod that may work for your situation. Good research at the least.

The default mode for a failing KS is retarded timing.

Gugs

I actually forgot to mention that I did a little test by venting the crankcase to the atmosphere because I did suspect that the blow-by was causing the a/f mixture to be diluted, but the pinging at the specified load/rpm didn't change one bit. I was hoping that this was the cause... but unfortunately, the search for the answer continues.

Gugs

In other words, poor performance right? The car scoots along very nicely.

Gugs

TBehr- Sweet Cdale man! I'm diggin' the c/f monkey lite bar! Any issues with it creaking? I'll post pics of mine soon.

UncleSmitty

iTrader: (1)

F****** bad a** bike!!! How much does it weigh?! Sorry to be off topic

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

Nice bike I'm bike man myself, although I'm more of a freestyle, trick and flatland rider

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

No, not necessarily poor performance. Most drivers wouldn't be able to tell the difference in two degrees timing difference unless driving both back to back. 'Scooting' is very subjective.

You can still have oil collected in the intake that can cause the pinging. Temporarily venting to the atmosphere isn't enough to eliminate this variable. Remove the manifold and do a visual inspection. I bet oil is all over the inside.

T_Behr904

Thanks Nope, no problems with it creaking. The bars have been trimmed back because it was a bit wide for my liking.

I can't remember the exact weight, but i do recall that it's under 30lbs.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Since no one else mentioned it....What's the condition of your plugs and coil packs.....I would change all that and seafoam your intake tract with half a bottle and throw the other half in your fuel tank.....your combustion chambers might be a little dirty or full of carbon deposits and change your PCV while your in there...GL

T_Behr904

Seafoam treatment sounds like a good idea. I thought about doing that to my car but I haven't done it yet.

Gugs

The intake manifold did have a good amount of oil inside... but it was more of a film than the walls drenched in oil.

Plugs are brand new (stock heat range), and one coil pack is new (replaced to fix a misfire). The PCV is brand new (came with the new cam covers).

I'll get some Seafoam... hopefully it does the trick. =]

Here's my "Manual Beater":

T_Behr904

Nice... That's the Lefty Max, correct? I believe the Prophet has a bit more suspension travel than the Rush, but if you look you'll see that the Rush and Prophet have the same rear swingarm, with the Prophet having two travel settings. What's cool is that we can run 650b tires without modifications since there's enough clearance for the taller tires. 650b is halfway between 26" and 29er's at 27.5 inches.

D Moolah

iTrader: (1)

am i better off running 91 octane, 100% premium fuel, or 93 octane with up to 10% ethanol?

knight_yyz

iTrader: (40)

Try colder plugs

Clashez

iTrader: (5)

THIS^^^^_ I been wondering that a while now myself
I want to say the 100% 91 octane

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

From the resonator box or in the ports? I noticed I had oily intake and exhaust valve stems but the intake tract upstream from the ports was dry and clean.....So maybe I was losing a little oil thru the valve stem seals but I'm lucky we have 93 octane here in Tx and Louisiana where I spent most of my time....I think even using a cooler plug would help you a little....But I'm sure it's the oil cause your pinging....I'll bet my third leg on that! Clean it running it thru a vacuum while at idle only do a 1/2 bottle than pour the after 1/2in your tank.....

Gugs

Intake tract from the t-body inwards was oily... but not "drenched". I can see the oil mist causing dillution of the A/F ratio, but when I isolated the blow-by from getting back into the intake tract, the pinging was still present.

I will definitely consider this.

Update: In an attempt to de-carbon the intake valves/combustion chambers/pistons, I sprayed a small amount of water through a vacuum port near the power valve at idle. No reduction of the pinging at 1700-2000 rpm range.

I may try the port that is closer to the throttle body to allow the water do distribute into other areas of the manifold.

Later in the day, I poured in a bottle of Techron when I filled up with Chevron 91... hoping to see some improvement by the time this tank is near empty.

Update: Almost through the tank with the Techron... still pinging at the same RPM range.

T_Behr904

It might take more than one tank/bottle... Also, drive the ish outta it, too.

Instead of the Techron, get a bottle of Lucas fuel system cleaner.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Are you absolutely sure it's pinging you hear? Not valves tapping? Water isn't gonna do anything to help your engine....just hook up a half bottle of seafoam thru the intake tract and let it do it's magic! It's gonna smoke like a mosquito fogger for a few minutes, pour the other half in the fuel tank and be done!

Remove at least a couple of plugs and read them...... perfect ignition is light brown(chocolate bar) see what color your's is burning at...... You might also want to ensure that you VIAS is working and you don't have a minor intake/air leak....

Gugs

When you say "drive the ish outta it"... is this to try to blow out the carbon or?

Yes, I removed all 3 of the front plugs the other day and they are all evenly colored and look very clean.

What should I look for in the VIAS system? Correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the valve open at 4k rpm under high load? Is it doing anything at the 1700-2000 rpm?

Yes, I am absolutely sure it's pinging and not the valves tapping. Water is actually a old school method of removing carbon from the engines... but I will go get some Seafoam to see if that works.

Keep the advice comin' folks! I appreciate it.

T_Behr904

Yes, a.k.a. an Italian tune up. Lots of full throttle action to knock/blow that crap out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

MaxinO2

iTrader: (1)

I have the same problem with the pinging sound. Seems like it happens when accelerating, and it gets louder if its hot outside. Seems to only bother me in the summer time.

I just recently started to put 91 octane in since there isn't 93 in Colorado. I do hear a little less pinging now but its still there. I also think the high altitude may have some kinda affect on it.

RR5

iTrader: (6)

I get the sputtering sound; almost a fast metal rattling sound within that RPM range and basically wrote it off as timing chain tensioners. Varying pressure on the accelerator pedal causes it then eliminates it. Be interesting to see what changes if I run 3-4 tanks of 91 with octane boost.

Gugs

That's awesome... learned something new today. I have to be a bit careful since my hooptea has 245k on the clock. =]

Are you experiencing the pinging at around 1700-2000 rpm as well?

I'm not sure if I would describe mine as a "sputtering sound", but it definitely goes away by varying the throttle position. If you do the 91+boost, please let us know if that eliminates the pinging.

Finchum

mine developed pinging when i went to 89 octane to test if the 10% ethanol blend would keep it from pinging. I ran lucas fuel system cleaner through it and it went away after the second tank of 93 octane. for your case I would go with a step colder plug.

so in my case I am staying on 93

I do plan on putting a catchcan inline of the cam cover ventilation lines and eliminate the oil in the intake.

Gugs

Yes, I'll try a set of colder plugs as well... kinda bummed because I just threw in a brand new set of stock heat range NGK's not too long ago. Then again, if the cooler plugs fixes the problem, I'm all for it.

defiance

iTrader: (1)

Save the plugs Gugs, if the colder plugs dont help at all then switch back to the OEMs

Gugs

Will do. Thanks.

MaxinO2

iTrader: (1)

Yes that RPM range seems about right, its worse on hot days. Since I've been using 91 Octane the noise has reduced some. I also just ran Seafoam into my Vacuum line, not sure if that help with the pinging or not yet.

Gugs

Have you tried the colder plugs?