sontakke

My son just called and said that he is no longer able to put the stick in to 1st or 2nd gear. This happened while coming back from Charlottesville to DC on the road. Even when the engine is off, he can not put it in 1st or 2nd. He completed journey using 3rd, 4th and 5th. Reverse works. There are no abnormal noises. I do not think low fluid would do anything like this but have asked him to take off the fill plug and inspect/add fluid. I am in New England, so I can only give him hints remotely.

What can cause this symptoms? I am thinking something wrong with the shift linkage and local gas station should be able to figure this out. It does not feel something blew up inside as that would definitely make lot of noise. This looks like the left shift plane is jammed. The neutral spring feel, he tells me, is fine.

Help!! 2000 5-speed, 180K, original clutch, original engine mounts, original (rusted) radiator support bracket. If radiator bracket had given up, would that make the entire engine move and cause this??

Montego Murph

iTrader: (1)

Low clutch fluid would indeed cause this problem -- if it were low enough, the clutch pedal would not be able to "tell" the clutch to release.

However, since he's not able to use first or second even with the engine off (has he tried it while rocking the car a few inches in either direction?) I'd say it's something else wonky.

Can he get into 5th and/or Reverse?

My guess is that the bottom end of the shifter somehow hopped out of its spot in the linkage (if that's possible in a FWD transmission -- I've only owned RWD manual transmissions.) I would suggest he remove the console, then the shifter and shift boot and give it a look, but without knowing what to look for (or knowing what he's doing) he could either accomplish nothing or make it worse.

Galactica

iTrader: (5)

It must be a linkage problem, possibly where the rods connect to the transmission, possibly at the shifter itself.

zero2sixtyZ

iTrader: (30)

Pull the shifter surround, and see if anything has gotten in the way on the left side of the assembly. If plastic broke, or something is obstructing one of the linkages, this could prevent the shift rod from going into the left gears.

DjHackStyle

this happened to me once on a different car, a piece of plastic fell into the shifter linkage area in the engine bay and was blocking only 1 and 2nd, check for obstructions in the linkage area on the transmission and the shifter inside the car under the boot.

sontakke

My son took it to a corner gas station which unfortunately told him he needs rebuild because the transmission is burned up. "It was low on oil" but would not say how low.

How likely is it to have all other gears working fine except inability to move shifter in to gear 1 and 2 when the transmission is "burned up because of low oil"?

If it the transmission was running low on the oil, I would think it would become hard to shift in all gears and would progressively get worse and chew up synchros and getting balkier and balkier. It just wont suddenly block the shifter going in to first or second.

Time to get second opinion :-(

Galactica

iTrader: (5)

Indeed time for a second opinion. Sounds like they are trying to completely screw your son. Check that linkage. Occam's Razor man: The simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

LA02MAX

iTrader: (3)

Yeah i'd say they're trying to screw you. I would be willing to bet it's something with the shifter linkage - however, living up there I really suggest getting that radiator support fixed before the winter. If it does sag, it'll cause more problems than just not being able to put it into 1st and 2nd gears.

sontakke

Unfortunately, the 2nd shop also gave the same diagnostics. I am suspecting both looked at the linkage and decided they could not see anything obviously wrong, so it has to be the transmission.

Galactica

iTrader: (5)

Too bad someone here can't take a look at it. I doubt anyone has ever seen a transmission blow 1st and 2nd at the same time. Anyone have a good 5-spd for sale here? If you were industrious, you could look for a 6-spd from an 02-up Maxima or 03-up Sentra SE-R Spec V and add yourself a gear.

sontakke

any org'er in the Northern Virginia / DC area who might be able to help out my son to take a real look at it? Even if some foreign material ended up in the transmission or a gear tooth chipped off, I am still having hard time explaining the behavior. Even a transmission specialist (at least on the phone) is not too eager to open up the transmission to find out what is wrong with it if indeed it turns out to be transmission. It has to be something pretty obvious but apparently all they would want to do is to slap another one there rather than fixing this one.

Montego Murph

iTrader: (1)

Can we get any more info from your son on what happened right before the problem started? Maybe that could be some sort of hint. Like for example, did he have to use more effort than usual to do the N-1 and 1-2 shift the final few times he used it, did he accidentally downshift from 5 to 1 instead of 5-3, maybe loan it to a bonehead friend? Maybe there's a clue in there somewhere.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I"m with the linkage thing too. 1st and 2nd are on the same side. Since you're pulling the stick to the left (drivers side) to engage 1 and 2, check the right side (passenger side)of the tranny when u look at it from underneath.

Also remember that even though you're using only gears 3 4 and 5, all the gears are always turning because they are inter-connected. So 1 and 2 still work cause they are spinning, you're just not connecting.

For the rusted radiator support, when the car is on a lift, push the rad support part up, and while holding it there see if 1st and 2nd can be engaged. Maybe the engine and tranny have sagged a little too much over time due to the rad support AND tired motor mounts.

sontakke

My son never noticed anything abnormal before. He was driving on Rt 29 between UVA, Charlottesville and DC and at one of the traffic light could not put in the 1st. So he tried to put it in 2nd and still no go. I have seen him drive the stick shift and he drives it as well as I do. I have put over 250K on the original clutch on a Honda and it was still on the original clutch when we donated the car. I know my son has very good handle on the clutch and gearshift usage.

what if a foreign particle like broken axle clip suddenly found its way inside the fork sliding mechanism jamming it? But I am thinking any such jam would have lot more severe consequences than only blocking the gear shift in to 1st/2nd. I am thinking that any jamming with so many gears spinning would be catastrophic.

Galactica

iTrader: (5)

Wish you were on the west coast. We could throw it up on my buddy's lift and figure this thing out. I still believe it is the linkage. Something is blocking it either at the shifter or at the transmission. These 2 shops, do you know for sure that they took the shifter bezel apart and inspected the linkage where it attaches to the shifter??

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Did he hit a bump which could have shifted things around?

Did the gearbox feel warmer than usual?

sontakke

To the best of my knowledge and what I can gather from talking to the mechanics, I suspect all they have done is visually examine the stuff that they could.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

First thing I want to know is whether or not you can move the shifter into neutral between 1st and 2nd, or if that movement to the left is blocked (meaning you only have neutral available "between" 3rd and 4th, and 5th/reverse.)

If you cannot move the shifter in neutral to the left so that it is "between" 1st and 2nd, then something is blocking that movement, could be external (linkage/shifter issue) or could be internal.

Good thing is that if it is not external, it isn't hard to remove the gear position sensor/reverse light sensor and take a look at the shift rail ends and selector inside the trans and to see if you can tell anything from the condition of those.

Here is a picture of what I am talking about. IGNORE THE TEXT in this picture, that text was put there to help someone else who was diagnosing a "stuck in gear" problem, but the mechanism visible in there is what you will need to look at.

Also keep in mind that this picture was taken on the bench, so the trans was sitting at a different orientation than it will be in the vehicle. the LEFT side of the picture would be "up" when the trans is installed in the car (meaning rotate the picture 90 degrees counter clockwise to properly orient it to "installed in vehicle" orientation).

sontakke

From all the indication, there seems to be sufficient movement from neutral to 1/2 plane.

Do you know what is involved in being able to remove the neutral/reverse position switch while the trans is still on the car? This involves draining the fluid? Also from the orientation and your description, does it mean that the hole for the position switch is on the passenger side of the transmission?

What about idea of "gently persuading" the shifter to unjam if it is jammed inside?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

It is on the driver's side of the trans. when installed in the car, removing the sensor is not a problem. it is easily accessible. you do have to be conscious not to crack it though. after you remove the 10mm bolt, the little tab that is the obvious pry point is fairly weak, so it is best to pry gently with a very thin flat head screwdriver in multiple places around the circumference than to try to do all your prying in one single place.

all the oil will drain out of that hole if you haven't drained it already. i use the reverse light switch as my primary drain, because it does a better job of evacuating all the fluid than does the actual drain plug on the trans.

once you have that plug out, if anything is in the way of that portion of the shift mechanism you should be able to see and remove it. if you can't see what is blocking the movement, i would not try to force it.

here is a pic. the reverse light sensor plug is the large hole on the left (which is the bottom of the trans when installed in the car).

sontakke

Any org'er in DC/Arlington/Fairfax area? It is definitely jammed inside. No mechanic wants to open it up or even to take off that PNP switch. I don't think they would be in a position to ascertain if anything looks abnormal. An org'er will know lot more than run of the mill mechanic in this particular case.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

post in the regional forum for your area, there are tons of max guys who know their stuff in that area, i bet you can find one.

oh and sorry for the confusion with that original pic in my first post. I just re-read my post and realized i made a typo when i said the left side of the pic would be "up" when installed in the car, i meant the right side would be up. i can understand that would be confusing when i say one thing but mean the other lol

sontakke

will do.

Do you have the part number for that electrical switch? The one which shows up on the CourseyNissan or on Rockauto does NOT look anything like what is actually on the car. The manual transmission PNP switch must be different than the one for the automatic. Both the sites only show the automatic version.

If I can get somebody to take the old switch out to look inside, I need to have a replacement handy in case the old one breaks during the removal.

sontakke

Update:- Spent the big bucks and had the transmission replaced (and brand new clutch); along the way, the radiator support bracket got done too. [total was way over the cost of the car!] Whole saga lasted more than two weeks. The first transmission he put in had massive leak, so he had to get yet another transmission.

However, now there are vibrations *during* the clutch engagement. This condition never existed before. Now it is very difficult to do slow speed driving. Clutch is NOT slipping. Given that the shop essentially had to redo the job twice, there is no way he is going to go at it third time to figure out what is going on :-(

I drove the car after not driving it for more than 5 months but I *think* new transmission gear ratio is different (taller gearing). My son also thinks the same. I also noticed that idle speed of the engine is lower. Those two factors could combine to cause the car to vibrate when releasing the clutch at idle. The car has ample power that it can indeed take off at idle from dead stop. I do not think what I am feeling is clutch chatter. There is no noise associated with it. The shop assured me that engine and transmission mounts are good. I do not know if he had the flywheel resurfaced. I suspect not as there probably was no need. I wonder if the clutch kit that he put in is causing the vibration/shudder *during* the engagement. Is it possible that the friction material is very hard and is not "progressive" which causes shock during the engagement? May be the friction disk he put in has no springs to absorb the shock? Is the transmission not aligned to the engine?

My son drove it back yesterday from VA to MA and will be here for the Thanksgiving. I drove around the block yesterday night. The entire drive train feels different, NOT bad but JUST different. For example, there seems to be less of engine braking i.e. when I take my feet off the gas pedal, the engine RPM do not try to drop as much as they used to before. The gear shift lever is not as crisp as it used even though it is claimed that this transmission has half the miles than mine. The brake pedal feels little different. If he missed some sensor hook up, I would think there would be check engine light.

I would do little bit digging around but I am resigned to think that we will have to live with it as it is. I guess as long my son can get couple more years from this car, we would be satisfied.

- Vikas

Galactica

iTrader: (5)

Sorry about all your troubles man. I honestly don't know what exactly the issue is other than the shop you took the car to is the issue....It sounds like they're a bunch of clowns that don't give a crap. If you were here, I'd have you take it to my friend's shop in Lake Oswego. All of his mechanics are professional drivers including him and work on cars because they enjoy it and so they can pay for their expensive hobby..lol! Most of their clients are also track dogs with a disposable income. In fact, one of his mechanics is a Certified Nissan master mechanic. These guys know their stuff. You need to find yourself a shop like that, my friend. These guys sound like a bunch of grease monkeys. Hopefully it wasn't a Nissan stealership....