CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

OK so I had my Maxima at the Mechanic to to look over the body work and engine swap. Hes COMPLETELY has me confused. Says I may only need heads.......

Ill start from the begining.....

Over a month ago I was getting a few SES codes, I cant remember the numbers at this time but the 2 or 3 of em pionted to low oil level. I checked the oil and it was supper low so I added 2 quarts and it was back to the hatch area on the dipstick.

After doing some research 2 days later I removed the Valve Timing Solenoids disassembled, cleaned them both then blew some compressed air into the holes in the heads where they mounted. I then changed the oil, and found metal shavings in it. I let it run after refilling the oil and thats when the extreme smoking began, out the exhaust and in the valve covers. I changed the oil one more time and it was black after only 20 minutes of running.....also had metal shavings in it.

Now when my mechanic looked and drove it today he say I may only have a bad valve guide or seal. Also said I may have done damage when I used the compressed air in the Valve timing Solenoid holes....

The car has no lack in power.....its all power all the time but smokes at start up, after sitting at idle for any period of time and under heavy accel.

What could be the cause of this!?!?!?!?!?!

Maverick4189

iTrader: (7)

Sub because I have the same issues, no metal shavings, but smoking as driving and under heavy accelerate. Will be interested to see results

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Shavings have dissipated...My mechanic has me having second thoughts on an engine swap, going to change oil one more time....any thoughts on maybe just a head swap?

Maverick4189

iTrader: (7)

Im in the same boat as you, power seems fine kist lots of oil burn and smoking. I still dont nkow the cause

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Have you driven yours alot in that condition?

Maverick4189

iTrader: (7)

Smoking? prolly about 5000 miles or so...im up to about 5qts every 3k though...maybe more. Its just getting worse and worse

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Time for an engine swap. And tons cheaper than all that head work crap the mech wants to do.

In the meantime, want to slow down the oil burning, install two oil catch cans - one for the front and one for the rear. The ADD W1 can is nice, quality, small, and attractive. They run about $90 a peice on eBay. Cheap for a quality can. And you can re-use it or sell it later. It even has an oil "dipstick" to check the levels so you don't have to remove the bottle.

I ordered three. One for my Maxima and put two on my Quest. I found it interesting, I pull ZERO oil off the rear of the Quest.....all mine on the Quest comes from the front.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Going to do a compression test today to rule out rings.....I have a suspecious feeling I blew the valve stem seals when I put 90 PSI down the ports of the Timing solenoid......thoughts?

Cyl 2



Cyl 4



Cyl 6




Can I get some input here.....Does any of this point to vale stem seal? or ring?

These numbers are all dry test

Should I continue with testing on 1,3,5?

The_Fixer

iTrader: (1)

I have a feeling your just burning off all the crap you dislodged with the air.check the other 3 cyls if their good keep changing the oil out till clean

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

You might also consider running some Lucas stabilizer through it to help. I agree that it is unlikely to be a head issue, you may want to do a valve seal service after the rest of the crud works itself out, but even that is probably not entirely necessary.

And I would change the plugs afterwards too. It won't benefit you much to replace them in the middle of the problem.

If the head did need work or replacing, you would likely be better off buying a new engine. At least a new short block. It would be much cheaper than all that head work.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

I have done the compression testing on the rear and redid the fronts..... I'll get pics up after my hands are clean. But all cylinders are hovering around 150....

I redid bank 2 after seeing bank 1 go that high. I think the engine was too warm for the original test.

I will say that the plugs on bank 2 do have oil on them. Cyl 2 is soaked in oil now. (my brother cleaned it when he removed it the first time.... He's fired from this job now).

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

I was curious about that, because the last time I compression tested mine all 6 cylinders were right around 160. Lol. In any case, that very well could be a valve seal gone awry on cylinder 2.

Once all the metal shavings have been flushed out, it won't hurt to inspect them at least.

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

skimmed through the thread, but is it burning oil constantly or just on startup? valve seals usually only cause oil burning after the car has sat for many hours like overnight, while it sits the oil creeps past the seals and you get a puff when it fires up and thats it. i would take a cylinder leakage test over a compression test. oil on the plugs can be bad valvecover gaskets too

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

It smokes almost all the time.... The worst is when you really get into the throttle... Cold or hot.... No matter




Cyl 3



Cyl 5





Bank 2 RETEST

Cyl 2



Cyl 4

Cyl 6


As is sits right now I have the complete IM out and All cylinders have been compression tested. I think Im going to change the Valve Cover gaskets and reassemble and see what happens then. I will report back.

In the mean time if someone has a tip or advise please let me know!

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Decent values there for all cylinders, so you can pretty safely rule out bottom end issues. It is possible for a valve cover gasket to cause oil to leak onto the plugs, but I don't see how the oil would crawl down to the tip like that.

Normally, if a VC gasket plug seal goes it will leak oil all over the plug and cause it to pool up inside the plug orifice, but unless the plug is not tightened properly it is unlikely that it would leak into the combustion chamber and burn and build up on the plug tip like that. At least that's my experience and thinking, but I could be wrong though.

I personally have had valve stem seals go bad on my 85 Corolla GT-S that caused constant smoking. I originally thought it was rings, but a compression test came back excellent and a leak down showed 28% on cylinder 3 and less than 10% on the other three. Replaced valve seals across all cylinders and that engine never smoked again for as long as I owned it. So it is possible for a valve seal to deteriorate enough to cause a steady leak into the combustion chamber.

The only other thing I can really think of right now that could cause that kind of smoking would be head gasket, but a positive compression test rules that out all but completely.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

I have nothing building up in the plug holes....

On another note there us a good coating of oil in all parts of the IM.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

OK so today was a very productive/informative day. I think you have helped me narrow it down to the bank 2 cyl head valve stem seals. This is a much easier task for me to handle than an engine swap....

Just for ****s and giggles I did a motor flush and changed the oil, changed the front 3 plugs, and when the Intake was off I cleaned all the excess rtv on the NWP spacers. When I put it all back together I used the oem IM gaskets because it seems like I'm going to be opening it often..

Needless to say it still smokes, (part of me wants to say not as bad but that's just the placebo effect). It's still strong as if nothing is wrong. I shall be my head search!

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

It is possible to replace valve seals from the top with everything still attached. Not simple, but possible. I used to do it on my 240sx's once I figured it out. Lol. It was the same for the KA as it was for the SR. Never done it on a VQ though.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Before looking at the seals again, look at your Y pipe. Specifically the condition of your pre-cats. If the pre-cats are gone or disintegrating then, ummm,

The crazy oil consumption that is steadily increasing doesn't bode well for the diagnosis.

Maverick4189

iTrader: (7)

Its funny how closely our cases are linked, I am basically dealing with the same thing on my car. Almost word for word the issues. Except no metal shavings yet

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Shavings are gone. I don't know what they came from but it stop or really slowed.... I'm chucking them up being extremely low on oil!..... I drove it for a good hour this morning and there was barely a trace of smoke under normal driving conditions and even when I left it running while in the store I had very little puff when driving after it.....I'm going to look into the jwt spring compression tool.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Just realizing that with it being dohc the cams still have to come out, meaning timing cover and chain still need to be taken off and out. If I'm going that far into it wouldn't it be easier to just do a head swap?

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Head swap would require timing chain R&R as well, and would require several other new parts (gaskets, etc). Though it certainly wouldn't be something I would recommend against because it would give you a chance to get a nice go through on any seals and hard to reach parts that would otherwise be difficult to get to.

If it is just valve seals, then the head wouldn't need to be removed. I can see how the cams would need to move, they did on the DOHC KA as well, which also runs a timing chain. I used that opportunity to go ahead and replace the chain guides and tensioner. Not sure if you'll be able to get to any of that on the VQ if you're just going after the front valvetrain, but it could be worth doing, and without removing the head, there's no need for new head gasket, machine work, or anything like that.

Really can't go wrong either way, you just want to make sure you do it right whichever way you decide to go, which I'm confident you'll do based on your thorough diagnostics efforts.

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Here's a question for you gurus. Is there any heads I could do a direct swap with that would be better than stock..?

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

More testing scheduled for this weekend

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

So within some small talk with someone today I think I learned something.

When doing a compression test it should only take 3 cranks to build the pressure in the cylinder. Is this true?

When doing my test it took a lot longer than that.... Probably close to 7-10 crank overs or bumps of the needle on the gauge....

I think I've lost the last bit of hope for this engine.....

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

All hail the motor destroying precats! Another one bites the dust.

Oil ran low from burning due to the precats and finished off the motor. There's no secret here or bad head.

And Idk what the other guy is smoking, but your compression tests shows that it's toasted. A healthy VQ will not even be near 150 and obviously the front cylinders sucked in a lot more ****. You know why? B/c the front precat rattles around and is disintegrating faster.

Do a motor swap + headers (or gutted precats) + gutted rear cat (b/c now it's full of ****)

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

Leak down test showed 40%-50% loss on bank 2......I didnt even bother testing the rear. I changed the pcv valve and ordered as couple oil catch cans. I'll drive it til it dies....

Maverick4189

iTrader: (7)

^^^ that's what in doing. I use 2qts of oil every tank of gas. Saving pennies for motor swap

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

You see your car it's worth the swamp. My needs radiator support work, wheel well bodywork, and now a motor. So now it's the car used when I'm jonesing for speed. Lol

I will say changing the pcv did help a little bit with the smoking after it get up to temp.

ateick

iTrader: (1)

So I just bought a donor car that I was told had a dead engine. It hadn't been started up in a year but I managed to get it going. My god the smoke show was incredible at start up. Once it gets warm it still smokes noticeably. I'd say the same you would see if it was -30 weather out.

I did an oil change for ***ts and giggles (no metal) and checked for codes. The only codes were two evaps and a random misfire. I pulled the plugs and wow I've never seen build up like that. I don't know if they ever got changed in 260k km! I had some "previously enjoyed" plugs laying around so I put those in. It smoothed things out a bit but still a smoke show.

I'm assuming from the posts above that I'm just an extreme case of what's happening to some others. Am I right to assume that the valve seals are likely done when you see this amount of smoke and there's not much that can be done to this thing other than expensive head work?

CauzinDrama

iTrader: (13)

You remind me of me a few weeks ago. Wanting to sync a little bit of head work would fix the issue.

Sir I must inform you your rings are done.

I get tons of smoke on startup, once its warmed up and I'm driving you can barely tell anything is wrong. On time you a smoke is if I get into the throttle more than normal. And a little bit when exiting the highway and the engine is braking the car until it falls out of overdrive.

ateick

iTrader: (1)

Yah thanks that's what I figured. Just needed final confirmation. Luckily I didn't buy it for the engine just thought maybe it could be resurrected from the dead but doesn't look like it.