jontyrees

I just got quoted $2,300 to repair my 2002 Maxima. The car was running just fine, but started to be reluctant to start. Engine turning over just fine, so battery and starter were fine, just wouldn't catch. After being like this for a day or two, it completely failed to start. Engine still cranking just fine, but no start.
- security light in the dash comes on and stays on when the ignition is on position
- got an auto locksmith to come and reset the security code, but his eqpt couldn't communicate with the car
- took it to the dealer, and after almost 2 days of not returning my calls, tell me that "the sensor in the engine mount has failed and fried the ECM - that'll be $2,300 to fix"


Does that sound feasible? Or is it just the dealer trying to scam me out of $2300? I haven't had a good feeling about them - the service advisor doesn't answer his phone, doesn't return calls,. I may be off base, but I don't think it's a clean operation.


Any advice would be very welcome!

theblackone3.5

iTrader: (5)

It's called the stealership for a reason.

jontyrees

Quick update. After I told the svc advisor to put the car back together, and that I'd pay their $120 diagnostic fee and take it somewhere else to be fixed, he called back and said his manager thinks that sounds too high, and that maybe they can get away with replacing the motor mount, and not the ECM. They are trying a good motor mount they have on hand. We'll see. I HATE taking my car to the dealership.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Take your car away, asap (or make sure they don't touch it). They're idiots and thieves. They will just cost you A LOT of money and mess it up more. A motor mount will do nothing if it already fried the ECU (which is why you just unplug it).

Pull the ECU and see if anything is fried. If so, then get one from a junkyard and have the morons reprogram it.

tosheto

iTrader: (5)

I had bad ECU and just bought one on ebay. Then drove the car over to the dealer for quick programming.

D.Stillwell

^^^ I think most important post above is don't let them touch it! They will mess it up more and then rip you off more.

Dealership is never a good idea, they're morons and thieves

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=D.Stillwell;8954813:

Dealership is never a good idea, they're morons and thieves [/QUOTE]

So true I have a new 2014 and my local Midas is a much better place to take my car than most Nissan dealers.

nestorlugo

iTrader: (11)

A quickdefinitive yes!


First take a look at your ecm by removing it and open it up to look for burn traces ! Its difficult to get those bolts but not $1200 hard .... Imo

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

My butt hole hurts and I'm not the one getting screwed

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Nah, $2,300 is totally reasonable. An ECU will run you about $100, and a new motor mount, if you wanted one, would cost you another $100-150. What could possibly be unreasonable about $2,000 in labor and reprogramming charges? That's only about 20 labor hours.

/sarcasm

This repair should cost you AT MOST about $500. More likely $300-400, and that includes having it reprogrammed at the dealer. And as was said above, just unplug the motor mount. You don't have to replace it. That will cut the cost practically in half.

You should have asked them which side of the service counter they wanted you to bend over on $2,300. That's a rip.

maxiiiboy

It looks like you have at least two problems.

The security light indicates that the car has been immobilized. It's possible (but not certain) that this happened because your ECU was damaged by your malfunctioning Electronic Engine Mounts.
In either case, you need to disconnect the mounts because they can fry your ECU. There is a plenty of information on this forum on how to do the disconnect (look for the two brown connectors close to the air box).

Your second problem is the ECU. You need to find out whether it was damaged by the malfunctioning mounts. I would remove and inspect the ECU. You can try to have it fixed (I would try www.avproecm.com, but there are other places) or buy a used one. There are junkyards, and there are some decent dealers. Courtesy Nissan is one; they sell refurbished ECUs for about $600-$750 - check them out. If you replace (rather than repair) your ECU, you have to have it reprogrammed at the dealer.

Finally, you might have yet another problem that caused your poor starting. Any codes?

jontyrees

Thanks - once I get the car back up and running, I'll definitely disconnect the engine mounts from the electrical system. What is the purpose of the connection in the first place? Obviously it's for some purpose, but if it's non-essential, I'll disconnect.


I see aftermarket ECMs on ebay for around $150, and a couple of posts here saying they are fine. Do you see any issues with these? TBH, I have no idea where there is a junkyard to get a used one. There's a used parts website, maybe that's a good source?


My other problem is that the car is at the dealer, and inoperable, since the security system won't let it start. So I'd have to have it towed back to my house, where I have a mobile mechanic who can work on it. Unless it's just a plug and play, in which case I could take a shot at it. Then I'd have to have it towed back to the dealer to get the new ECM programmed, is that correct? Ugh - lot of towing charges.


Either way, looks like an extended period of hassle :-(


Thanks for the help!

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

It is PnP. It's a few bolts and it comes right out. It's not hard to find junkyards.

maxiiiboy

I have no experience with aftermarket ECUs. I suspect it's hit-and-miss. Courtesy Nissan sells re-manufactured ECU's for $600-800; that's reasonable although not as cheap as the $150 or so AVPRO would charge you to "fix" yours. I would call Courtesy Nissan (800.527.1909) and ask them if they have one for your car. I would also use the opportunity to find out what to watch for when buying a used ECU.

You should look at their site (http://www.courtesyparts.com/kb_sear....php?keywords=[22611]+\(A33B&cPath=1956_1957_1988_1992 ) and note how many different ECU variations there are for just one model year! What's the chance you'll get the correct version when buying from somebody who does not have the knowledge the Nissan dealer has ???

jontyrees

OK, a google search reveals a couple of junk yards here in Austin. Also found a ton of them used on ebay in the $70-$100 range. Junk yard is a possibility, but I doubt it'll be cheaper than the ebay suppliers. I'll search around this site for instructions on locating the thing and removing though, in case I get inspired to go to a yard

maxiiiboy

You'll find that many eBay sellers are also junkyards (guess how I know ... ). Some of them specialize in certain parts, and that's a good thing - they are a bit more knowledgeable on the subject. If you decide to go this way, contact the seller first and make sure you get the correct part for your car.

I am talking from my own experience. I just purchased a Power Window Master switch on eBay, and it took one return before I got the correct part. I suggest reading the serial/model number off your ECU and trying to get a "match". I can't tell you what exactly "match" means, but a Nissan dealer should be able to do that.

CS_AR

I got ripped (and not even kissed) by dealer who quoted a new engine at $8,400 when the problem was cooked/clogged cats and two bad injectors. I had to pay $750 and a $65 tow charge yo get the car home and remove the O2 sensors in my driveway so the engine could breathe. It started up and never failed to start again. This is not your problem.

However, I recently sent my ECU to Foreign ECU Repair in Big Sandy TX for testing and it was found to be bad. The ECU company found the exact replacement and warrantied it for 18 months. They returned the old ECU and the replacement for $250 shipping included. If you want a 5 year guarantee just add $39 to the price.

I think they do ECU testing for around $35. If your ECU tests good, they return it and it will not need to be reprogrammed. The ECU people seem to be very professional.

Just tell the dealer you can get an ECU with a 5 year warranty for $289 from a local TX company and see what he says.

How long is the OEM ECU warranty -- 90 days?

Are you far from Big Sandy TX?

Here's the link.

http://www.foreignecurepair.com/


:

gapboi210

I don't know why people **** and moan about dealership prices. No $hit it is cheaper to do it yourself. Dealerships have the highest labor and part cost usually. The dealer is not going to buy parts of ebay or get them from the junkyard. So comparing part costs makes you look like an idiot. The dealership is always the most expensive option. If you think Midas with their untrained, uncertified 19 year olds are the best place to take your care, then buyer beware.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

The real tragedy of the dealership experience is that they have all the access to know everything about your car. All too often, they don't, or don't want to. They'd rather exploit their assumed advantage to the fullest.

nismopc

iTrader: (3)

Here let me fix that for you...

It's not just Midas that employees these individuals. Apparently you haven't checked out dealership shops. They aren't that much different than any other shop around...

...except they have a shiny piece of paper that says they are certified and trained. Doesn't mean they still know **** about our cars.

jontyrees

Sooo, finally heard back from the dealership. Surprise! the ECU is not bad, but the motor mounts need to be replaced. The price has now dropped from $2300 to $800. I know I can get a set of 4 aftermarket motor mounts off ebay for $100, and I'm sure they'll be fine, but the question is, am I better off paying the diagnostic fee ($120), the tow fee there, the tow fee back to my house, my driveway mechanic's fee to do the work (he's very reasonable, and I have approx. zero spare time to try it myself, plus limited skill). Then maybe STILL have to get the ECU reprogrammed since it's currently on disable. Or just bend over and take the $800 dealership charge to fix it. Ah, questions.....


TBH I'm leaning toward paying the damned $800 to get this over with, and not have to drag it out any further.

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

Just unplug the mounts, problem solved if the ECU is good.

The only reason to replace the mount is if the rubber has ripped and I doubt it.

Run away.

jontyrees

Done - just called and told them thanks but no thanks. Now the car is still disabled, with the security light on. If I disconnect the mount wire, I'm guessing I still have to have the code reset - is that the case? Could a mobile auto locksmith do that for me? I already had the guy out here to the house to try that, but he was unable to get communication with the car. I REALLY don't want to tow the car back here, and still be stuck with an inoperable lump in my driveway

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

The mount is irrelevant. You have to pull the ecu to find out and replace it.

I assume the dealer already tried to reprogram the NATS and couldn't. Either the ECU or the NATS is toast. It's time to figure out which.

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

If unplugging the mount is irrelevant, please say so.

To my knowledge that is what prevents the ECU from being damaged if it isn't already.

Either way, it needs unplugged.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

You need to unplug it, definitely, but it will have no affect on the problem. The damage is done.

jontyrees

They already established that the ECU is ok - they changed the mount for a known good one, and figured out that the ECU is fine. Now they're saying it's $800 to replace the mount, which they already changed just to see if the ECU is ok. Seems like they can do that work just to diagnose the issue, but want to charge me $800 to do it again!

jontyrees

Just talked to my service advisor again, and gave them instructions to unplug the motor mount sensors and reset the NATS. That should do it, right? There was zero sign of any clunking or weird vibration from the car previously, so I think the actual mounts themselves are fine, and it's just the sensor that went bad. As long as I can get the car running, and get it out of there without losing an arm and a leg in charges, I'm happy. If the mounts do need replaced, I'll get aftermarket for $100 for all 4, and have it done in my driveway. I also found a thread revealing the "secret" 4-digit code for resetting the NATS, which may come in handy down the road if I ever have to replace the ECM.


I hope this works! Thanks to all who helped educate me here.

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Link to "secret" 4 digit code thread for NATS?

jontyrees

http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...-nvis-tip.html

ateick

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the code.
So with NissanDataScan a cable and that code I could reprogram a replacement ecu to the cars original key without a trip to the dealership?
Sorry for the slight hijack.

CS_AR

I recently purchased a Consult III interface and a piece of software from Europe that translates the car's 4 character security code to a NATS code for using Consult III to reset the immobilizer and reprogramming keys if needed to match the ECU. The only downside is the software requires Windows XP. So I'm bring XP out of moth ***** so I can run the Consult interface software.

jontyrees

Yeah, that's how I read it, although if you've read the rest of this thread, you'll know that I am definitely not the guy to be advising others!


My service advisor left me a message saying they are unplugging the mounts, and will reset the NATS, but they won't get to it till tomorrow. Car still at dealership, still disabled. One day this will be over.

00 Max

I am rooting for you buddy, what a nightmare.

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the link and here's to hoping they can get it done and over with and won't try to take you to the cleaners when you try to get it back from them.

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

great thread, keep us posted on updates

jontyrees

....and they all lived happily ever after.


total charge $233.70, including the diagnostic fee and the tow fee to get it to them. They unplugged the sensors and were immediately able to communicate with the ECM to reset the code. car starts fine now, although my kid thinks it drives a little differently, and feels like there's a slight shake when he comes to a stop - probably the lack of the active mount.


They also did some recall work according to the invoice - "Install new engine sensor kit". Crankshaft and camshaft position sensors, and "sensor asmy mag" - presumably the thing that holds the sensors? That might be why he thinks it drives differently.


They even did a multi-point inspection, so now I know I could use some work on the rear brake pads, the front tie rods, and the drive belts. No surprise there, but good to know.


Anyway, all's well that ends well, even if they had the car for 5 days. They started out asking for $2,300 to fix it, dropped that to $800, and thanks to all the fine folks here at maxima.org, I was able to get out of there for $233! 10% of the original quote. Thanks fellas!

nestorlugo

iTrader: (11)

^^^^ Success Story #747,737,917 and counting.... Thanks to the .org

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

Great success!
Congratulations!!

Prophecy99

iTrader: (1)

wow! i am really surprized they went down from the $800