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Ok, so another update. I decided just to replace the camshaft position sensor since it is super easy to get to and took literally 2 minutes. Pulled the old one off and saw that it has oil in the pigtail receiver...probably not a good sign. No visible cracks or anything, but the oil was suspect to me. Anyway, I installed the new one and the car started right up. No extended crank no nothing. I probably started it and stopped it 20 times just to test it...and because it sounded pretty dang good starting like that. No idle is no nothing. I drove it and left it running for about 45 minutes and then shut it off and let it sit for a while. this typically has resulted in the car starting like crap the next time you start it, but this time it didn't! So, I got excited...realized that I probably didn't clean all the oil out of the pigtail after I installed the new sensor and wanted to reset the computer and clear all the codes so I could get a fresh start. Brake clean on the pigtail and inside the sensor pigtail receiver area to get rid of the oil from the pigtail - blew it all dry and let it sit for about 2 hours with battery disconnected. Went out and hooked everything back up....and I'm back to extended cranks and it ran like crap - same stuff. I let it sit again after overnight - drove it to church(ran like crap) and then drove it home and it idled fine, still extended crank. Drove it to work today, Ran fine - loads of power, extended crank still. WTF WTF WTF??????
Did I mess up the sensor by spraying brake clean in it to clean out the oil? Local tech said that would be fine and wouldn't ruin anything. I installed the vendor part on this one - a Delphi OEM part. I thought I had it.
I know one thing for sure these cars don't like any sensors/electrical stuff other than OEM. Some good do have luck but most don't. Then you think you changed the part, swap 6 other things trying to fix it only to come back and change the original part with OEM. Hitachi made a lot of the OEM stuff for this car. Nissan's don't mind Denso either as they are OEM on many models. Rock Auto sells a lot of the Hitachi branded stuff.
I know one thing for sure these cars don't like any sensors/electrical stuff other than OEM. Some good do have luck but most don't. Then you think you changed the part, swap 6 other things trying to fix it only to come back and change the original part with OEM. Hitachi made a lot of the OEM stuff for this car. Nissan's don't mind Denso either as they are OEM on many models. Rock Auto sells a lot of the Hitachi branded stuff.
I asked because Bosch says it's OEM but Nissan says it was either Mitsubishi or Hitachi. Bosch may have invented the O2 sensor but others can do sensors better.
Using Delphi successfully for over a year.
Brake cleaner is a fast evaporating liquid, it should not mess the sensor, as it only contains a Hall sensor and a transistor. I am afraid you are facing an intermittent connection failure somewhere. That would suck.
Using Delphi successfully for over a year.
Brake cleaner is a fast evaporating liquid, it should not mess the sensor, as it only contains a Hall sensor and a transistor. I am afraid you are facing an intermittent connection failure somewhere. That would suck.
Well, this does suck. I replaced the TPS today at lunch with the OEM Hitachi part - let the car sit for over an hour with battery disconnected - hooked everything back up and it does the same thing. No change whatsoever in the idle behavior - in fact, moving the TPS back and forth when it's doing this doesn't even change the RPMs at all!
New TPS
New Camshaft Pos sensor
What next...yes I know I'm using the parts cannon...but they aren't that expensive and I do NOT know how to test all these things and come up with a proper diagnosis. I just don't have the smarts I guess, but I keep asking for help. Hopefully someone out there is patient enough to keep helping....
That sounds like safe-mode. You can't get above 2500ish RPM correct? Also when you unplug the MAF the car starts immediately? My money is on the MAF, or the MAF wiring. Obviously they've already messed with it.
Clean it first, but you need to do some continuity and short testing. It's not as difficult as it sounds.
If you're feeling frisky, remove and peel back the loom and sticky **** on that wiring harness as far as you can go. Look for damage / melted wires. Not hard, just tedious and messy.
If you have an idle at 600 RPM and you press the pedal and it only goes no further than 650, then the ECU is not hearing from the pedal. This was my experience when the TPS in my Quest developed cold solder joints. You replaced the TPS, so assuming that the new one was good, there is likely no connection to the ECU further up the harness, or in the ECU itself (unlikely).
But if like Wes wrote, you only go up to 2500 when in gear, that's the limp mode, and the cause would be different, like ECU not hearing from the CPS - crank or cam.
There would be codes for each after like 2-3 minutes of idling if this was a VQ engine, but I am not sure if 3.0 should throw codes as well. IMO it should, just not sure.
If you have an idle at 600 RPM and you press the pedal and it only goes no further than 650, then the ECU is not hearing from the pedal. This was my experience when the TPS in my Quest developed cold solder joints. You replaced the TPS, so assuming that the new one was good, there is likely no connection to the ECU further up the harness, or in the ECU itself (unlikely).
But if like Wes wrote, you only go up to 2500 when in gear, that's the limp mode, and the cause would be different, like ECU not hearing from the CPS - crank or cam.
There would be codes for each after like 2-3 minutes of idling if this was a VQ engine, but I am not sure if 3.0 should throw codes as well. IMO it should, just not sure.
I don't have any limited RPM issues at all - I can drive it like this and when it's not bogging down and bucking on me, I can accelerate to 4-5k RPM just fine. It will accel and then big down, then accel and bog down - sounds like someone put their hand over the intake...
That sounds like safe-mode. You can't get above 2500ish RPM correct? Also when you unplug the MAF the car starts immediately? My money is on the MAF, or the MAF wiring. Obviously they've already messed with it.
Clean it first, but you need to do some continuity and short testing. It's not as difficult as it sounds.
If you're feeling frisky, remove and peel back the loom and sticky **** on that wiring harness as far as you can go. Look for damage / melted wires. Not hard, just tedious and messy.
RPMs are not limited at all - just the intermittent idle acceleration - watch my videos - it clearly outlines the behavior when I am driving. The bucking, the behavior while driving
Ok, but when it bogs down, what is the exact RMP reading you see? Does it only shift into 3d gear as well when it does that?
It's a manual and I can shift through all 5 gears when this idle/RPM behavior is happening, but it will bog down in all gears - some worse than others. Dumps fuel like a mother - I drove it 12 miles last night out of necessity to get it home and I probably lost 1/16 of a tank.
That sounds like safe-mode. You can't get above 2500ish RPM correct? Also when you unplug the MAF the car starts immediately? My money is on the MAF, or the MAF wiring. Obviously they've already messed with it.
Clean it first, but you need to do some continuity and short testing. It's not as difficult as it sounds.
If you're feeling frisky, remove and peel back the loom and sticky **** on that wiring harness as far as you can go. Look for damage / melted wires. Not hard, just tedious and messy.
I have been watching videos on testing the MAP and MAF - but with it being intermittent, what am I actually looking for in a test? What is the best way to test the MAF to see if it is actually the problem without a Scantool? Just need to get this thing fixed and running right. Thanks for all the help and suggestions
What does your ECU look like? Is it in good shape? Any corrosion of the case? Because you have so many codes re totally independent parts, ECU is the next suspect. Assuming you made sure no vacuum leaks exist. Check electric diagrams, are all parts that you get codes for connected to the ECU via the same harness/plug? That harness or plug could have been pinched as well. Pull the main plug off the ECU, check if it's got any corrosion of contact blades. Clean if any and apply SuperLube dielectric silicon grease.
Are you able to get another ECU to test from a scrap yard?
Man, I feel your pain. When I had a 3d gen Max, it was stalling between 2002 and 2004. For 2 years it would randomly stall or not start, including on the HW, and no one was able to fix it. I hate Nissan for intermittent electrical failures.
What does your ECU look like? Is it in good shape? Any corrosion of the case? Because you have so many codes re totally independent parts, ECU is the next suspect. Assuming you made sure no vacuum leaks exist. Check electric diagrams, are all parts that you get codes for connected to the ECU via the same harness/plug? That harness or plug could have been pinched as well. Pull the main plug off the ECU, check if it's got any corrosion of contact blades. Clean if any and apply SuperLube dielectric silicon grease.
Are you able to get another ECU to test from a scrap yard?
Man, I feel your pain. When I had a 3d gen Max, it was stalling between 2002 and 2004. For 2 years it would randomly stall or not start, including on the HW, and no one was able to fix it. I hate Nissan for intermittent electrical failures.
Ok, stupid question - is the ECU the one behind the radio inside the car? (behind the console)
What does your ECU look like? Is it in good shape? Any corrosion of the case? Because you have so many codes re totally independent parts, ECU is the next suspect. Assuming you made sure no vacuum leaks exist. Check electric diagrams, are all parts that you get codes for connected to the ECU via the same harness/plug? That harness or plug could have been pinched as well. Pull the main plug off the ECU, check if it's got any corrosion of contact blades. Clean if any and apply SuperLube dielectric silicon grease.
Are you able to get another ECU to test from a scrap yard?
Man, I feel your pain. When I had a 3d gen Max, it was stalling between 2002 and 2004. For 2 years it would randomly stall or not start, including on the HW, and no one was able to fix it. I hate Nissan for intermittent electrical failures.
So check this out - when the car is taking a dump and idle is poor etc etc etc - if I unplug the MAF, it will keep running and raise the RPMs to like 1500 and just stay there. Why? This dude says if your car does that, your MAF is hosed...
So check this out - when the car is taking a dump and idle is poor etc etc etc - if I unplug the MAF, it will keep running and raise the RPMs to like 1500 and just stay there. Why? This dude says if your car does that, your MAF is hosed...
What does your ECU look like? Is it in good shape? Any corrosion of the case? Because you have so many codes re totally independent parts, ECU is the next suspect. Assuming you made sure no vacuum leaks exist. Check electric diagrams, are all parts that you get codes for connected to the ECU via the same harness/plug? That harness or plug could have been pinched as well. Pull the main plug off the ECU, check if it's got any corrosion of contact blades. Clean if any and apply SuperLube dielectric silicon grease.
Are you able to get another ECU to test from a scrap yard?
Man, I feel your pain. When I had a 3d gen Max, it was stalling between 2002 and 2004. For 2 years it would randomly stall or not start, including on the HW, and no one was able to fix it. I hate Nissan for intermittent electrical failures.
Dam i hear air leaks wow !!!!!!! Get rid of that aftermarket intake.
Sounds like a gangster shot up the engine
"You have the induction system messed up. The MAF meters the air going into the engine. If you plug it in and the engine stalls then there is air entering the engine that the MAF isn't metering. Perhaps a hose isn't connected."Probably
Dam i hear air leaks wow !!!!!!! Get rid of that aftermarket intake.
Sounds like a gangster shot up the engine
"You have the induction system messed up. The MAF meters the air going into the engine. If you plug it in and the engine stalls then there is air entering the engine that the MAF isn't metering. Perhaps a hose isn't connected."Probably
wanna sell it?
There isn't a leak - the car runs fine when it isn't doing this random idle crap. I can't seem to get it to go back to normal now - it usually does after you let it sit for a couple days. If you listen, the engine is drawing a ton of air until I pull the MAF...after that, it quiets down and runs almost normal.
..... until I pull the MAF... after that, it quiets down and runs almost normal.
That's a clear indication there is something wrong with your MAF and/or the associated wiring.
Have you tried to contact the previous owner re. the changes made to the MAF wiring ???
Focus on this issue and don't get sidetracked!
That's a clear indication there is something wrong with your MAF and/or the associated wiring.
Have you tried to contact the previous owner re. the changes made to the MAF wiring ???
Focus on this issue and don't get sidetracked!
Cant talk to previous owner. He was hiding things when he sold it so he isn’t going to help me. I need to dive into the MAF harness and peel back all the sticky. I haven’t done that yet and it has been suggested. I guess I’m figuring that a $120 part might be worth the headache of doing that. The wiring that appears to be altered runs through the harness to the MAP sensor. This could be a MAP sensor issue too which no one has really discussed. I’ve seen some good videos about it and seems to be a likely candidate too - at least by association because of the behavior in the idle etc. how would I test the wiring between the MAP and MAF? Totally lost in that...I do have a multimeter just don’t know how to use it real well.
Cant talk to previous owner. He was hiding things when he sold it so he isn’t going to help me. I need to dive into the MAF harness and peel back all the sticky. I haven’t done that yet and it has been suggested. I guess I’m figuring that a $120 part might be worth the headache of doing that. The wiring that appears to be altered runs through the harness to the MAP sensor. This could be a MAP sensor issue too which no one has really discussed. I’ve seen some good videos about it and seems to be a likely candidate too - at least by association because of the behavior in the idle etc. how would I test the wiring between the MAP and MAF? Totally lost in that...I do have a multimeter just don’t know how to use it real well.
I have revisited you video. I am now pretty sure what happened to your car:
The previous owner replaced the OEM intake and OEM air box with an aftermarket set-up (K&Y, I believe).
Because of this, he was forced to relocate the Absolute Pressure Sensor (APS - incorrectly referred to as MAP sensor by some people on this forum) from the front part of the OEM intake to a new location on the K&Y intake.
Apart from the need to physically move/extend the APS connector to the new location on the K&Y intake, there was no need to make any logical changes to the OEM wiring.
However, for reasons unknown to us, he made such changes. For example, he installed the T-split on the red wire of the MAF sensor; plus he made other changes you talk about in your video, and that I can only guess at.
The resulting set-up is a mess - unstable and undocumented.
The only solution is to undo the mess, and to do this properly. I assume you don't have the OEM intake, so you'll have to stick with the K&Y. These pointers should help:
The proper wiring for the APS sensor is shown on page EC-179 of the FSM (download the FSM, or at least the EC section, from the link in my signature below).
You also need to undo the changes made to the MAF wiring, and restore it to its original state. Not sure how much was changed, perhaps you only need to remove the T-split on the red wire.
All this would be much easier if you had access to another 2000 Maxima, so that you can compare and restore yours; it would make the whole process a lot quicker.
Until you sort all this out, forget all the earlier discussion (and posts) about possible problems with TPS, CPS, etc. I am pretty sure they are not an issue.
All this is doable - so good luck!
EDIT: You'll also have to find out what changes, if any, were done wrt. to the "MAF service bulletin" - see my earlier post #15.
Last edited by maxiiiboy; Feb 19, 2018 at 02:54 AM.
I have revisited you video. I am now pretty sure what happened to your car:
The previous owner replaced the OEM intake and OEM air box with an aftermarket set-up (K&Y, I believe).
Because of this, he was forced to relocate the Absolute Pressure Sensor (APS - incorrectly referred to as MAP sensor by some people on this forum) from the front part of the OEM intake to a new location on the K&Y intake.
Apart from the need to physically move/extend the APS connector to the new location on the K&Y intake, there was no need to make any logical changes to the OEM wiring.
However, for reasons unknown to us, he made such changes. For example, he installed the T-split on the red wire of the MAF sensor; plus he made other changes you talk about in your video, and that I can only guess at.
The resulting set-up is a mess - unstable and undocumented.
The only solution is to undo the mess, and to do this properly. I assume you don't have the OEM intake, so you'll have to stick with the K&Y. These pointers should help:
The proper wiring for the APS sensor is shown on page EC-179 of the FSM (download the FSM, or at least the EC section, from the link in my signature below).
You also need to undo the changes made to the MAF wiring, and restore it to its original state. Not sure how much was changed, perhaps you only need to remove the T-split on the red wire.
All this would be much easier if you had access to another 2000 Maxima, so that you can compare and restore yours; it would make the whole process a lot quicker.
Until you sort all this out, forget all the earlier discussion (and posts) about possible problems with TPS, CPS, etc. I am pretty sure they are not an issue.
All this is doable - so good luck!
EDIT: You'll also have to find out what changes, if any, were done wrt. to the "MAF service bulletin" - see my earlier post #15.
Do you have this engine? Can you or anyone provide a picture of where the APS/MAP sensor is located stock? The rewired pieces of the MAF do connect into the MAP sensor for sure - I can see the combined wire exit the harness by what I think is the MAP sensor - I might be wrong though. I'll put together a video in the next couple days. Got my hands full with a big banquet I'm putting on.
If I can find a stock airbox in a junkyard and pull the associated wiring harness for the MAF and MAP and get it back to stock - is that my best/cheapest option? You dont think that a MAF is in order then? I'll look at your diagram for sure. Thank you for all the input!
Yes, I have the same engine. I'll get you a picture later today.
Where would be the best place to get the right wire if I have to spice like wire this myself? Solid copper right and do you know the size? Home Depot just doesn't carry small enough solid copper - it's all for bigger applications.
Where would be the best place to get the right wire if I have to spice like wire this myself? Solid copper right and do you know the size? Home Depot just doesn't carry small enough solid copper - it's all for bigger applications.
Man, you are asking a lot of questions ...
Yes, solid copper ... don't know the size, but it's "automobile grade"; it should look like the other wires in your engine compartment.
2000 Maxima engine compartment and the Absolute Pressure Sensor
OK, here are the pictures I promised.
This first photo shows the engine compartment and the Absolute Pressure Sensor (circled in red), as it's mounted way up front on the air intake:
The sensor is connected to the engine in two ways: a) Electrically, via the gray connector with the green tab; and b) Pressure propagation - a hose on the bottom of the sensor (not visible in the picture) is connected, via a T-split, to both the air box and the fuel damper (and/or the VIAS CV).
The electrical connection is immediately absorbed into the engine room harness. The absorption point is circled in red, as this picture shows:
The pressure hose on the bottom of the sensor is split into two parts: One connects (via another T-split) to the fuel damper (or the VIAS control valve) - it's correctly circled in red, in this picture:
The other part connects to the lower part of the air box - at or around the point the red arrow in the above picture points to.
Last edited by maxiiiboy; Feb 19, 2018 at 08:26 PM.
Where would be the best place to get the right wire if I have to spice like wire this myself? Solid copper right and do you know the size? Home Depot just doesn't carry small enough solid copper - it's all for bigger applications.
Just get it close. Shoot for something 12 - 18g. Stranded is fine. Primary wire. Whatever. Just get some wire.
Depot should have had something but if not surely AutoZone or Advance has some overpriced rolls. If you see anything shielded that's a better choice, but I wouldn't really worry about it.
OK, here are the pictures I promised.
This first photo shows the engine compartment and the Absolute Pressure Sensor (circled in red), as it's mounted way up front on the air intake:
The sensor is connected to the engine in two ways: a) Electrically, via the gray connector with the green tab; and b) Pressure propagation - a hose on the bottom of the sensor (not visible in the picture) is connected, via a T-split, to both the air box and the fuel damper (and/or the VIAS CV).
The electrical connection is immediately absorbed into the engine room harness. The absorption point is circled in red, as this picture shows:
The pressure hose on the bottom of the sensor is split into two parts: One connects (via another T-split) to the fuel damper (or the VIAS control valve) - it's correctly circled in red, in this picture:
The other part connects to the lower part of the air box - at or around the point the red arrow in the above picture points to.
Thanks man, I really appreciate your help and patience. Just trying to understand what to do and how to do it right.
I have revisited you video. I am now pretty sure what happened to your car:
The previous owner replaced the OEM intake and OEM air box with an aftermarket set-up (K&Y, I believe).
Because of this, he was forced to relocate the Absolute Pressure Sensor (APS - incorrectly referred to as MAP sensor by some people on this forum) from the front part of the OEM intake to a new location on the K&Y intake.
Apart from the need to physically move/extend the APS connector to the new location on the K&Y intake, there was no need to make any logical changes to the OEM wiring.
However, for reasons unknown to us, he made such changes. For example, he installed the T-split on the red wire of the MAF sensor; plus he made other changes you talk about in your video, and that I can only guess at.
The resulting set-up is a mess - unstable and undocumented.
The only solution is to undo the mess, and to do this properly. I assume you don't have the OEM intake, so you'll have to stick with the K&Y. These pointers should help:
The proper wiring for the APS sensor is shown on page EC-179 of the FSM (download the FSM, or at least the EC section, from the link in my signature below).
You also need to undo the changes made to the MAF wiring, and restore it to its original state. Not sure how much was changed, perhaps you only need to remove the T-split on the red wire.
All this would be much easier if you had access to another 2000 Maxima, so that you can compare and restore yours; it would make the whole process a lot quicker.
Until you sort all this out, forget all the earlier discussion (and posts) about possible problems with TPS, CPS, etc. I am pretty sure they are not an issue.
All this is doable - so good luck!
EDIT: You'll also have to find out what changes, if any, were done wrt. to the "MAF service bulletin" - see my earlier post #15.
Ok, so I did some more testing. I can't find another 2000 maxima/I30 so I decided to just do more testing to see if it points to anything obvious.
1 - MAF test with key in "on" position - this resulted in a voltage of almost 5v on the red wire and the ground test checked out fine
2 - MAF test with car started - back probed the MAF and while running, I proved the signal wire and the signal ground wire and it reads 2.2v steady and doesn't increase if you increase RPM
3 - APS(MAP) test with key in "on" position tested fine - I don't recall the exact voltage reading, but the ground wire showed like 88.x on the multimeter(see vid)
4 - APS(MAP) test with car started tested the same as the MAP - sat at 2.2v and didn't increase or change as the RPMs went up or down.
So...what does all this mean? I actually pulled a MAP out of the junkyard off an automatic that has the same part number and put it on. the old MAP had a big crack on the top of it. No bueno, but doesn't appear to have any affect at all. Joy.
Rewiring this thing is going to be a chore - because I can't find a manual tranny that I can pull the harness from...unless you can tell me that the auto tranny harness will work? Someoe popped out the MAF from the 2000 at the junk yard along with the pigtail. The other 1999 had the entire engine removed.
Here is some multimeter testing of the MAF and APS(MAP)
