Did a bit of research on both...and I'm having a problem where I may need one or both of these mods. From what I could dig up,the Apexi Super AFC is kind of an ECU piggyback that helps you monitor and control the air & fuel flow to your engine...it allows you to set it custom for your particular car BUT...the ECU will see that the stock settings were changed after a whle and set them back to stock which would be pretty annoying...anyone with this mod know if its worth it or if these things are true?
A Fuel Pressure Regulator should allow you to monitor/control the amount of fuel getting to your engine. Do the Apexi Super AFC and the Fuel Pressure regulator perform the same function? Does it make sense to get both or is one better/just as effective as the other in managing fuel flow to the engine?

Deac

 

Ive done alot of reaserch on it too and here is what ive come back with :

The computer is fine with it up to 10 % of change up or down but after that the ecu begins to retard the timeing.

Now that q I can't seem to get answerd is if 10 % is enough change.

By the way how much boost do you run?

 

Ok...Most popular opinions are to not bother with the AFC...computer resetting issues make it not worth the expense. I'm just gonna go with the fuel pressure regulator!
I have stock boost now and a custom Intercooler. I bought a 3.125' but I've been hering too many horror stories about it so I'm gonna go with the 3.25 or the 3.33...what doyou think my best bet in terms of boost would be?

 

If 10% is indeed enough i say it's fine to get. If not then don't bother. The main reason to have it is to fine tune the fuel curve helping the car out and getting max hp. With stock boost and the 6:1 you don't need it at all.

As for what boost is good for you. Well it depends how much boost drop you have via the intercooler. Do you know? If you get the 3.125 or 3.25 you need the 8:1 fmu and a new belt. The afc would be good but not 100 % needed. Though if you auto i'd not go more than 3.33. After what I saw with mine with stock boost man that would be bad. I can't imagine what kevs looks like. But I'll tell about that in another post later.

 

Since I'm having a fuel flow problem, I haven't really been able to run my car to its potential since i got the Intercooler. I'm waiting to have my Fuel Pressure regulator, My BOV and new fuel pump installed next week.
I have a 5spd so...does the 3.25 pulley use the same belts as the 3.125? The guys at my shop and Kev also says running 11psi is not safe and they know a few guys who have blown their engines running 11psi. So, I want to get the 3.25 or the 3.33
My shop Speedworld.com recommends getting a Paxon fuel pressure regulator, I sawe on here that the fuel pump to get is the Walbro one and the BOV I'm getting they say will be HKS or Greddy. Since you have a SC already, what do you think to this? Let me know what you think is best if you've had experience in these things. I need to get this fuel flow problem fixed and get that pulley changed! Holla...

Deac

 

Since you have a 5 speed I say upgrade the clutch and flywheel and get a short shift kit if your going the way of around 10psi. If you don't already have this stuff. Whats you fuel flow prob? Yes the 3.25 useing the same belt as the 3.12 which is the gates 60705. I don't know enough about the internels to say if 11 psi is safe. Though I thought I heard it was ok ( on the brink but ok) till 12 psi. But with your intercooler if say you where to run the 3.125 (11psi) pulley you prob woun't get that. You prob will only get around 10 or less depending on how much boost drop you have. Only you know how much boost drop you have via the intercooler. So how much are you droping?

As for Fuel pumps both are good. If you shop has alot of experience and likes the paxon go with that. AS for bov... it's up to you they all do the same things. Hks is a little less loud. Greddy tends to be perfered. Though they are both good solid peices.

All in all. I need to know pressure drop? Fuel prob? Other than that for the most part what youve said is good.

 

Each car, setup, and operating conditions are different, so nobody here can know how much boost you can safely run.

The "safest" way to know is to get a BUNCH of dynos done while tweaking fuel pressure/boost levels with wideband A/F monitoring.

I've heard/read until your running more than 8psi your actually losing power with an intercooler. Is that true?


Deac,
Do you plan on getting the Quaiffe differential? I think that would be critical in getting the most power out of a SC'd Max.

 

Well said, but there is acually a point of boost at high rpm that the pistons rods rings and seals will not like you ... "With less than 8psi of boost does it lose power with an intercooler?" NO! It may not gain as much power but would not lose. especially in the summer when the air it's boosting is hot. Most blowers with even low boost like 6 psi still run upwards of 225 degrees and up. Good air temp is 180 so thats what it's doing ( hopefully).

 

What I meant to ask is if your running ~6-7psi and then you add the intercooler, the pressure drop(1-2psi?) of the intercooler will negate the benefits of the intercooler. Basically, the cooler charge from the intercooler will not make up for the pressure loss of 1-2psi, so you will either not gain anything and may even lose power. However, once you hit 8psi and above the benefits of the intercooler far outweigh the 1-2psi pressure drop.

Is there any truth to this?

 

What you said first was right then you went down hill j/k. But here is the thinking. On ave an intercooler will give you about 30 hp. and depending on the car up wards of 40 lbs of torque. But sticking with hp. Say one lb of boost equals 12 hp @ the wheels (maxima). So if you drop 1 lb of boost you lost 12 hp but the intercooler gave you 30 so you net 18. So now you can go from there. drop 2 lbs lost 24 net 6. Not worth it no. But most intercoolers drop less than a 1/2 lb of boost so you lose 6 hp( usally less) and net 24 and net 40 lbs of torque. But in theory the higher the boost goes the hoter (to a point) the air gets. So yes the higher boost you run you can get more hp from the intercooler, which would negate the hp loss all together. Ive seen intercoolers on 16 lb boost cars that gain 50-60 hp. Another reasons to have an intercooler is it helps the engine run better. All in all, unless the mechaic messes somthing up big time, bent pipes long routes, bad core etc. An Intercooler is worth it.

Think of it as your car on a cool night vs a hot *** day...the car feels and is faster.

 

I think this is the most important point...Not too many (if any) 5th Gens are even running an IC so I guess I'll be the Guinea-Pig but for the most part, like you said, even if you lose a pound or 2 of boost, you've gained anywhere beyween 20-40hp (this is what I was told). So you'ved till gain HP regardless. An IC is definately a good investment. I dont have pic of it pre-install, but I'll post pics of it pretty soon on my site. I want to get everything done 1st.
I want to get a smaller pulley because the with the stock one, I felt some boost with the SC but not want I expected...Idont think the stock pulley does the SC justice. I think I will go for the 3.25 because with the pulley ratios the way they are, 3.125 = 10-11PSI, 3.25 = 9-10 PSI, 3.33 = 8-9 PSI...even if I lose a pound or even two with th IC, I'll stick feel a big differenc going from stock boost 6-6.5PSI to 8 or 9 PSI!! I have to run my car at full strength 1st to even prove if you lose any boost by having an IC...I'll keep you guys posted!

Deac

 

Remember that a supercharger will not make the charged air as hot as a turbo. 30 whp is VERY optimisitic. I would guess that it'll do about 15 whp or so.

 

Acually my intercooler is going on here in about a week. But you should not drop near 1 lb of boost. The stock pulley is good, but to feel the diff you gotta drive one with and then one without. But i dig what your saying 3.25 is the way for me. I agree with the thinking kev has but in the summer ( at least here) mine seems to make the air real hot. This of course do to the hoter air, and I think it will make a diff of upwards to 30 hp. But most importantly intercoolers are known for torque. I guess all will be answered soon enough.

 

Remember SteveChicagoSC (4th gen auto) put down about 270 at the wheels with a 3.25", intercooler, and Fields SFC?

 

Can't honestly say I remember. But those numbers do suck. I guess I will see here soon enough what a 5th gen auto can do with all that. And we can end all speculation.

 

The intercooler won't put up great numbers on the dyno, but you'll definitely benefit from it at the track.

Good luck and let us know.

 

Hey Kev, Im thinking of upgrading the FMU. Do you think this is worth doing? What is the stock FMU, 4:1? Currently Im running the 3.33. Thanks.

Peace

 

The stock fmu is 6:1. With the 3.33 you'd probley be good. Dyno it and find out.

 

Psssstttt..... he dynoed close to 300 whp (STD).

 

Proof positive that less fuel is more

I can't wait to say I got 350 hp Hopefully that range at least.

 

350 and a blown up motor.

 

Why you say that?

 

Blown head gasket, broken rods, screwed up rings, and maybe melted pistons. Mostly likely the first three would happen.

Have you seen the stock rods? No way those things can handle 350 whp (or 460 hp).

*BOOM* And I guarantee it. The VQ is a great motor, but not great enough to handle all that extra power.

 

Blown head gasket, probley. 350 whp is hopefull I expect around 330whp. I recalculated the numbers asuming the tranny is more effecient ( and it should be) So total engine power I figure will be no higher than around 400-415.

It's gonna be an interesting next few weeks, im excited and a little nervous.

 

I REALLY hope you don't blow anything. It'll be exciting to see what sort of numbers you'll get. Good luck and don't break/blow anything.

Take away 15 whp because I know you added 30 for the IC.

 

Alright 315 whp...O wait no that would be to low...that'd be like 283 whp j/k Yeah I hope nothing melts on me or go's poof that would really suck, but good that I have AAA. But hey maybe that 15 woun't so on the dyno but during the summer in 100 Degree heat on the road it will.

I am real curious to see what can happen when you don't have a slushbox problem

 

Don't worry, the 284 will go up. Hehehe

Make sure you have the AAA Gold memebership where they give you 100 miles of towing for free.

No slush box... probably around 18% loss instead of around 23-25%. Definitely *BOOM*.

 

I figured the whp #'s with 15% loss. Close enough to get the idea.


I saw on your site that you where considering the vortech aftercooler, it's a good idea but i don't think they have one setup for the throttle body on our side there all on the other side, for hondas and what not.

 

I was going to go with what Delio had. Remember you said it was ugly? That one...

 

Ahhhhh Yes the ugly one O wait no I don't remember. Ive become a post ***** But at least I'm getting some action

You got the link?


What else do you plan to do to yours other than the intercooler?

 

Max'n.....

You are going to be my new best friend when I go to setup my S/C. I live right down from you in VA.... (pretty sure you are in PA). I might have to bribe you into a short trip to VA to hook mine when they come out.

 

PW

No link (don't remember), but I believe BriGuyMax posted some pictures and someone might have posted pictures of Delio's setup. Search.

I might not be going for an intercooler/aftercooler setup. I want to be "different"

 

You got one large problem though, there not making a production supercharger for the 2k2

 

What are you going after then? Some new internels? New tranny ( gonna copy me?)

O and search? NO thanks, I'm pretty sure If i din't like It once I wount' again

 

Arrrrghhh!!! the Bastards had better. If not then I will have to figure something out. not a fan of N02. Ideas???

 

Get a custom kit made. I can suggest a shop sorta close to you that should be able to help you out.

 

New internals will come when I become too much of a boost ***** and blow my motor. The whole thing would be done up. No new tranny, unless I blow mine. I'll probably go with an I30t or Canadian SE tranny with Don's VB (maybe I'll throw in a TC while the tranny is easily accessable).

I thought you were doing an air-water cooler?

 

I was gonna but money is getting tighter and tighter. Plus I no longer have room for it, cuz of the fiberglass piece that covers the battery and hold the fuseing.

 

do-tell do-tell. I would be willing to travel for something like this. I am sure with custom though I will pay a righteous price for it. Hmmmmm. I think it might be worth it. At least I would be interested in talking with a shop that might be able to do something. Imagine.... 2k2 6spd w/ SC. Yeah, I think that will work.

Let me know what the place is and where they are if you can. Thanks

 

Extreme Motorsports in columbia Maryland, there the ones that are doing my Custom intercooler. If it can be done they will do it. Talk to Rob. It will probley cost what a kit will 3500-4000. there good they own the fastest talon in the land (8sec quarters) while your in the area Go over to NRH and talk to Rob there and tell him you want the tranny beefed up.