Very nice KEV! SC maximas own all! automagic pwr!!

 

Hey Kev where did you mount the WI bottle??? Im putting it in the trunk so the mist can stay cool. Curious

 

Nice numbers Kev!! Definitely something for us automagics to look forward to...

 

It's where the CAI used to be.

 

EGT seems to be the same.

Smaller pulley... hehehehe hasn't been installed yet.

 

300 doesn't apper on the graph, overall looks like the loss of boost plus water made the numbers the same. But it's good the feel is much more solid, plus the engine is now runing much better and not hurtin.

 

How much ( %) of correction did it take at the most to correct the fuel.

 

You're kidding me, right? You really don't see the whole graph moving upwards? Don't look at peak horsepower, look at everything before that (gains of up to 20 whp at certain points).

Chemistry: PV = nRT

Cooler temp equals less boost (with everything else being equal).

Correction percentage dips into the 20's.

 

It hurt my eyes to read the overlayed graphs, it don't surprise me at all that the lower end is greater, it's exactly what ive been saying in other posts. Im just saying that the overall number that people are "awing" at, is not any diff. Personally I think it's kewl that the lower end is better,which matters more to me, im just not gonna kiss your *** the way others do, no offence intended.

I think it's odd though that you lost 2psi. I'm a little weired by this system youve explained, it's not like anything ive heard. Not to say that it don't work, im just used to the more standard air/water units.

And I thought "everybody" said you can't use the s-afc "past 10 %correction". Or the "ecu corrects for it"...interesting.

 

Don't worry, I need no one to kiss my @$$. I'm challenging myself and my car... not proving anything to anyone.

Losing 2 psi could be good or it could be bad.
Good:
- made a lot more hp while boosting 9 psi than 11 psi
- cooler and denser air
- prevents detonation
- in-cylinder cooling
- more efficient at cooling than any IC (up to 120%... meaning, intake air temp can get lower than ambient temperature)
- can increase boost to 11 psi again and gain even more hp

Bad:
- less psi
- need to change pulley to get back to 11 psi
- there's more, but I can't think of them right now.


Haven't you noticed I like to explore the uncertainty (first to get Don's 5th gen VB, first to put on complete Ground Control/Koni, first auto to go down to 3.125", maybe first to do 300ZX brake conversion, first 5th gen to use water-injection even though my CarDomain poll had that in last place in everybody's opinion)? The AFC fuel setting was just a bump on the road that was conquered. Your theory that the ECU pulled timing (over 10%) never came true... and the theory that the ECU relearned the air/fuel never showed itself.

 

Blue graph: 288.3 hp, 246.9 tq (latest)
Red graph: 286.1 hp, 246.6 tq (latest)
Brown graph: 286.1 hp, 232.6 tq (previous dyno on the bad weekend)
Green graph: 284.1 hp, 234.9 tq (first dyno session)

Green lines were the strongest first dyno session. Notice how much lower it is compared to the red/blue graphs? Dookie brown lines had very high peak numbers, but was very low everywhere else.

Anymore questions/comments?

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=105146

 

you are my friend

hehehe

nice keving nice

 

You're rice Matt rice...



Forgot to mention, with the new dyno numbers, I got to redline in 3rd one second quicker.

 

Yes i am

I hate jOO

jOO want a cookie keving. no one cares that you got to redline 1 second quicker. Tiny *****

 

 

300 hp is good and all but in the end you still drive an automagic.
**cough**loser**cough**

 

The thing about the 2psi, is just that it's alot of drop, I mean you even said you din't expect that. I could see maybe 1 full psi but 2 full, whoooo. I know the full benifits to normal air/water ic's, i take nothing away from this setup you have, ive just never heard anything like it. I take nothing away from you being the first and experimenting with prebuilt parts, the only thing that ive come to be upset about is when people "drull" on you and kiss your ***, but when sombody does somthing really kewl that is not prebuilt or predone they ***** at them, I don't blaim you for that at all, it's just charecter of some. I don't want you to take any of this the wrong way. I'm not trying to ***** at you at all. It wasn't my theory at all about the afc, it came from about 3 or so others on here, it struck me as real odd.

 

The difference between your approach and my approach is I provided people with something to see... real numbers were shown and an improvement can be seen.

You said your tranny shifts faster, responds quicker, and feels like it has more power (or looses less power). Your estimate of 330 at the wheels with the new setup makes people wonder how this is possible. MardiGrasMax with the variable intake at 10-11 psi, put down 311 (SAE) at the wheels (compared to 27X without the use of the VI) with his 5 speed. Juan put down 298 (STD) at 9 psi (which is probably 286 SAE) in his 5 speed.

Now, knowing autos have more driveline loss than manuals you estimate 330 with 10 psi and an intercooler. So now you're saying your tranny is more efficient than a 5 speed?

People want to see hard numbers. Doubters will be silenced if you can prove your point.

BTW, don't hate the playa'... hate the game.

 

Why is 2 psi such a big deal? I mean, if Kev put down more horsepower AND especially more torque at 9 psi than with 11 psi, why does it matter if he lost 2 psi?

The increase in hp/tq was more than enough to compensate for the 2 psi loss. Right?

Also doesn't less psi mean you can up the boost and be even farther ahead? If 11 psi w/o WI puts down LESS hp/tq than 9 psi w/WI, then by deduction 11 psi w/WI will mean MORE hp/tq.

I'm still new to this so take it easy. Thanks.

 

You are absolutely correct. That's why turbo guys say they gained "30 horsepower" (for example) with an intercooler because all they have to do is turn up the boost to what it was before.

 

Thanks Kev. I thought I was missing something.

So did you buy that SMALLER pulley yet?

 

No problem.

Smaller pulley... Yes I have, but it hasn't been installed yet. Waiting for the metal pulley so I can do everything all at once. Hehehehe

 

Due tell what ya got ole boy?

 

Highlight the text above.

 

Pretty cool invisible messages. Can't wait for you to break 300hp!

You got too much time on your hands Kev.

 

I am so sorry that I can't take the forum with me on a drive. Let me ask you this though...The vb mod you and many others stand by as making a huge diff. why is it then so hard for you to believe the all that I did isn't that much better. People come on here and say wow I can instantly tell a diff now. Yet when I do somthing big, they doubt. Come on, Get off my back. And that was not the only thing I was refering to. I will put the end numbers up when I have them and then we will all know. Heaven forbid sombody do somthing really kewl and people just look at it for that. We know my tranny woun't go. I already know of another guy with 10spi intercooled minor internels, over 300hp who blew 3 trannys. He's not on here, but i'm not gonna be with him. If 330 don't happen it don't happen whats the big deal? Ive seen you put up party hats and make a big deal for people doing a new air filter. And yet not respond when ANYBODY does somthing different. I'm not hatting the player I was trying to make a point but I can see with the King of the org that can't be done. Heaven forbid you admit 2psi is alot.

By the way, I think it's odd that you came out with the total max power EXACTLY the same. Which means you gained about 22hp and lbs of torque. Pretty close to Right around what I said can be had with an intercooler. The big deal with losing 2 psi? Ask any real racer. a 2 psi drop would bug them out. That is a hell of alot of drop. Much more than normal. Some i/c's claim a loss of .25 some depending on bends in the pipes and other wired things can be as much as 1psi. Youve doubled that, thats what is odd to me. If your happy great.

 

Jayson, Can you answer my post to you?

Thanks.

 

I think I did more or less if you read through what I wrote but I'll do some more math for ya.

2psi is more than ave. Yes he did put down more power on the low end and that is indeed great. But just think he gained about 20hp with the intercooler, but lost 20 via loss of boost. So he broke even. Thats not bad, cuz now he doesn't have to worry about denotion and some other things, and did gain on the whole on the low end. But the fact remains that 2psi is alot. Most Ive seen after install loss about.5-.8 psi. So with that premius(sp), that he gained 20hp via the intercooler, if he only had the normal loss of .5 he would also have an additional 1.5 of boost which would be around,17 hp more on top of the intercooler. So the total gain would be about 37 hp instead of 20hp. And he would still retain the good fetures such as no denotion probs. So basically he's giving up 17 free ponies if you go with the ave's. See the point? Overall yes he gained, but there should still be more, and 300 would be there.

 

Yes, I see more now of what your saying.

However, if he runs a smaller pulley with the WI, he can boost 1.5 psi(by your ave. numbers) more and put ~15hp on top of the 20hp for ~35hp total, so he has NOT lost anything compared to your IC setup. Ok 2hp, but you see what I'm saying, right?

The WI and IC are pretty even if you compensate for the psi drop by going with a smaller pulley. How much is the IC? I've seen the WI for less than $500, I think, and a new pulley isn't that much.

Thanks.

 

I never said it wasn't better. I don't know if it's better so I didn't comment on your project. If you say it made a huge difference, then I'll go with your word.


It's your word against their opinions. Prove them wrong and prove yourself right. I was never on your back, I never put down your project, and you were the one that brought this tranny issue up.


Yes, please do. Everyone would like to see your hard work putting down great numbers.


You want approval?




Never say never.


350+, no internals, no intercooler... MardiGrasMax.


No big deal. That's the goal you want to reach. Drop a 50 shot in there and you'll go over 330.


Here's my approval on your project




Seriously, I wasn't getting your point.


Yes, it is.

PV=nRT... so if I had that much pressure drop, then the temperature must've dropped a whole lot also.


Like I said, don't look at peak numbers. I came up with EXACTLY the same hp, but I am also one full second quicker going to redline in third.


I can gain it all back by turning up the boost via smaller pulley, just like how the turbo guys can turn up the boost via controller.


Again, Ideal Gas Law (PV=nRT).

Yes, I'm happy making 288 @ 9 psi.

 

Turbos run hotter than SC's, so they will gain quite a bit more cooling down their charged air.

Charged air with an IC cannot be cooler than ambient temperature (outside temp). Cooling efficiency of about 65%

Charged air with WI can be cooler than ambient temperature. Cooling efficiency can be up to 120%, that's why it can be cooler than ambient temp.

 

Yes and no. Yes if he goes with the 2.87 pulley he can get back to 11 psi and gain that boost back, but with that pulley he should be at 13psi or with loss 12.5ish. So either way he is still lossing hp that should be there. It's kinda like saying I have a porche 911 and it dyno'd at 200 hp, thats nice and all but wheres the rest of the hp? Good analagy? Best I could come up with

New pulley 50 bucks, what he paid for his setup i don't know, they range by so much it's crazy.

 

What did you pay for your WI? It's the ERL Aquamist one right? What is the price on a smaller pulley?

What is the "typical" IC price? Also what would you guess is the approx. price for tubing, bending the tubing, mounting, etc..?

I believe the WI is a lot simpler and cheaper to implement, I'm just trying to justify it.

Thanks.

 

Kev you say you want your car to be better and beter well damn dude I would think you of all people on here would say I want that 2psi ish back. Not just say well f*** it. I never said it did nothing in fact i said it did good, what more do you want. but why give up free hp? Yes the temp droped alot so did boost, there reaches a point where cooling is to much. I beilve i read 180? Maybe right maybe wrong. But you have to see what Im saying. You want to put up a cookie and be an *** just cuz im trying to point out to you somthing o well. Grow up. Think it's that impressive and Im so wrong tell some real drag racer and watch him laugh. I never wanted you to make this so personal. What ever happend to "wanting to make the car better".

 

Paid $410 because I bought two. Pulley is about $60 from Vortech.

I have asked around about IC price. $1600 was the average estimate.

Yes, WI is a lot simpler.

 

Thanks Kev.

WI is cheaper, simpler to install, and more efficient than an IC, as long as you keep the NET boost EQUAL and the tank full of H20.

 

Who said I didn't want it back? I'm saying I'm putting down better numbers with cooled 9 psi than 11 psi.


I'm not saying, f' it. Your exact words, "300 doesn't apper on the graph, overall looks like the loss of boost plus water made the numbers the same."


It's not giving up hp. Boost was lost because the air was colder. We want colder air because it is denser and the quality is better. This is one of the main reasons why people intercool. The colder the better... better quality air and denser air equals better performance.


I understand what you're trying to say


Since you like peak numbers so much:
288 @ 9 psi (cooled)
286 @ 11 psi

What do you think peak hp would be with 11 psi? More, correct?

You just don't "gain" horsepower by putting in an IC. The temperature has to drop in order to gain horsepower. Temperature drops, boost (pressure) drops.


Tell him what? That if temperature drops, boost drops. I sure hope he took chemistry before he laughs at me.


You want my approval on your tranny project and you're mad I didn't say anything? I'm waiting for your numbers.

 

*Tips hat to Alex*

At least someone understands...

 

Thanks. I'm trying.

Oh.. one thing I forgot to add, WI also STEAM CLEANS you engine, riding it of those pesky deposits that cause pre-detonation, but who knows if that's a good thing long term.

Thanks again Kev.

 

Yes, steam cleaning is good... but too much could be bad.


Here's more info if you're interested.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rescr/faq/text-a.html