btw, i just noticed on my MF that it has two layers of foam. An outer "coarse" foram layer and an inner "finer" foam layer. I only managed to feel the oil on the outer filter (slightly greasy). The inner one i'm not sure... gotta recheck.

 

Hmmm.....Thats interesting. maybe thats how they say they get such food filtration. If they rely on the outer foam for that and the inner foam collects what gets through, is the inner part washabe or does that have to be replaced?

 

I don't have the filter/manual in front of me now but i'll definitely check it out when i get home.

In the meantime, i have some photo's of the filter if you wish to look at it.

From what i've read yesterday in the manual, this filter was supposed to come in several pieces which needs assembly. However, mine was pre-assembled out of the Box.

 

Hey soundmike,

Do you have a picture of the bracket that is supposed to hold the whole thing in place? I didn't see one in my box. Steve told me that I should have recieved it.

Thanks
Ray Nist

 

So if I clean an oil my K&N filter correctly, will I minimize the chance of damaging my MAF?

Thanks.

 

Nope. I didn't. Apparently Matt may have forgotten to include it. Additionaly, I got the 2k1 midpipe so Steve is sending me the correct one and the bracket + funds to return the wrong pipe.

 

Yes. In fact, I'm unaware of any MAF that's been damaged by a K&N air filter that's been properly cleaned and oiled.

 

How do you know MonsterFlow filters get such good filtration, remykins? Because MonsterFlow says so?

A coating of "tackifier" (aka "oil") on the outside of the MonsterFlow filter doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies. From what I understand, it's the oil in an oiled filter that traps the small particulate matter. So if all of the oil is on the surface of the filter, any particulate matter that gets through the oil will probably permeate the filter altogether. A look at the HKS test report will attest to that fact.

In addition, if all the oil is on the surface of the filter, then the surface of the filter is likely to get dirty much more quickly than a filter completely impregnated with oil. Perhaps that's why the MonsterFlow filter requires servicing every 15K miles while the recommended service interval on an Amsoil is 25K miles and on a K&N is 30K miles.

Here's the bottom line. I'm not about to put an air filter on my engine until I've seen some independent test reports concerning it's filtration capabilities. You, of course, are free to do as you please.

 

It has been while since this crap has been going on. Hasn't anybody done a same-car, same-day, side-by-side comparison of these intakes by now?

Or did somebody do that and the debate persists regardless?

 

Yes. It appears that the tests Steve referred to were conducted on a same-car, same-day comparison. But a side-by-side comparison won't work on a same-car basis, will it?

And what you refer to as "crap", by friend, has been very educational as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless, your insightful opinions are always welcome.

 

y2kse,
I agree with what you are saying. Im very skeptical of the filtration quality of the MF filters. I didnt mean to make it seem like I was convinced by them. When I talked about the quality of their filtration I thought I read somewhere that they said their filters are better. I am doubtful of foam filters. I had a Weapon R on my old car and the thing was discustingly dirty and dried out after like 5k miles. I decided to leave it off rather than spend the money to have their special "cleaning kit" sent to me.
You have a great point about just the surface being "greasy". Bescially from everything I have read about non oiled foam filters, whatever gets through that thin layer of oil is going wind up in your engine. I personally would not want to risk that on my car.
I too would want to see some independant testing before trusting these new filters.

 

Actually if you consider that the cars, sitting side-by-side, could very well fall into a +/- 3% error category, they actually could be the very same car at the very same time! Smart-a$$.
Nothing like a little sarcasm. The several-month long debate over whether the Berk or Frankencar intake produce a better power gain has pretty much become "crap" at this point. I'm sure your discussions regarding the physics of the intake are quite educational and informative...please continue...I just really can't believe that the debate over who's intake is "bigger" is still going on, particularly if there was a same-day, same-car comparison performed. It would seem to me that a same-day, same-car comparison with basic precautions taken for uniformity (i.e. letting the car cool) would close the book on this debate. The potential error beyond that is far too small to really concern ourselves with when it comes to choosing the intake you prefer. Continuing the discussion for pure curiosity's sake, I'll never strive to prevent.

 

A dyno run has been done but i don't think the recent posts had anything to do with performance numbers but more on the filtration capabilities of each filter.

Speaking of which, y2k.. do you think i can manually test the filter by attaching it at the end of a vacuum cleaner? It may not be the most accurate or elegant test but it should give a slight idea of what a filter is capable of right?

 

The cleaning and re-oiling instuctions say to pour the oil or whatever onto the filter and place it a plastic bag and make sure the oil gets on both the outer and inner filters.

I did notice the outer filter being greasy, I don't think the inner was though.

--Ray

 

The thing that interests me is that there seems to be a PERFECT solution available . . . the A'pexi high-performance paper filter. (Check out http://www.apexi-usa.com/intake_powerintake.asp.) Everyone agrees that nothing filters better than paper. And I'm amazed that a high-performance paper filter even exists! Granted, paper filters aren't reusable so they cost more than foam or oiled filters. But if you want the best of all possible worlds . . . excellent filtration combined with excellent performance . . . you have to be willing to pay for it.

 

It's got to be better than nothing, soundmike.

 

YIKES!!!

Now stay with me on this one, folks. If raynist is correct and the oil completely permeates the filter, then it's possible to overoil a MonsterFlow filter just as it's possible to overoil a K&N filter. And the net result could be precisely the same . . . a damaged MAF.

Which brings me back to the advantages of the A'pexi high-performance paper filter . . .

 

Thanks for being willing to keep an open mind, MichaelAE!

 

Golly, you're welcome y2kse.

 

Y2k,
According to Monsterflow they use a "non petroleum tactifying agent" where as K&N is petroleum based. That is why they say that it wont damage an MAF. Im sure it is possible to over oil a MF filter but their arguement is that it wont do any damage. You will just be sucking oil into your engine...but hey your MAF will work great

 

If anyone wishes to read on MF's patent. Check out this link

http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/...tnum=5,958,096

 

Damn. Now you've REALLY got me scared, remykins. What the hell do they make their "non-petroleum tactifying agent" out of . . . Super Glue? I don't know about you guys, but I'll be damned if I'm going to put an air filter on my vehicle that's permeated with an unknown compound. Puhleaze!!!

 

Cant say that I blame you...I want to know what it is made from myslef.

 

Thanks, soundmike. I looked at the patent info and this was all I could find regarding the "tackifier":

"In accordance with the preferred embodiment shown in FIG. 2, the preferred filter element 22 includes an outer foam mesh 64 for trapping large particles. In one embodiment, the outer mesh 64 has a porosity of 6-12 ppi. The outer mesh 64 covers an inner foam layer 66 that traps small particles and that has been treated with a "tackifier" substance to further this purpose. The above-disclosed structure is one way to configure the filter element 22 for filtering air passing inwardly through the filter element 22, but it is to be understood that other methods can be used."

Unfortunately, that still doesn't tell me what the "tackifier" substance is made of. And I'm not about to expose my engine internals to unknown substances.

 

NP. Btw, i went out on the net to search for the largest image i could find of the tackifying agent and filter matrix cleaner and found this.

If i read it correctly the bottom part says "Highly Flammable, Contents under pressure...fatal if swallowed...vapor"

What's your guess?

 

Some interesting info although not directly related to the Maxima:

http://www.capitolceg.com/modstech/monstervssvt.html

 

Yep. Saw that, they're comparing several filters to the KKM.

 

Well that makes me feel real safe about letting that get into my engine. What kind of cleaning agent is that? At least with the K&N you can wash with soap and water. You dont need to spray with all sorts of chemicals.

 

Speaking of which, didn't the MF manual say you can also wash it? I don't have it with me right now but i do recall glancing upon it.

 

I think it said you can use a mild detergent to wash it.

--Ray

 

Super Glue?

I really don't know, soundmike. But I'm not letting that stuff anywhere near my intake until I do . . .

 

ok here's the deal, it says flammable fatal and all that other stuff because it's an Aerosol can and they all are flammable, also the monster flow can be cleaned with mild soap and then re tactified with the "NON-PETROLATEUM Agent" also you have to get a special kit to clean and reoil k/n's also.

what i want to know is what would make 99% of everyone happy. Apex-
I filters??? depending on pricing would you mind a price increase(i will try to death not to do that though) and i do know of one person who had a MAF die from a factory k/n and then saw and felt a film of oil on the maf screen and maf itself(again straight from the box, and his name is Steve)

 

Steve, I'm happy with either intakes. AFAIK, there will never be a 100% customer satisfying product. Do what you need to do, either way you will have customers anyhow.

I took the chance on the MF because i know that they're used on most Mazda performance project vehicles. Though i haven't seen a lot of good reviews for it, from the little i've seen they're all good.

 

The operative word is "oil". At least I know what I'm putting on a K&N air filter. I can't say the same for a MonsterFlow air filter. And let me ask you this. Would you feel comfortable putting something on your air filter without having some idea of what it is or how it might affect your engine internals?
And did Steve report this to K&N? And what was K&N's response?

 

I hope my K&N filter that is comming with FrankenCar intake won't damage my MAF.
Where do you I by the cleaning kit for K&N? Does it come with the filter?

I will be upset if my MAF will get damaged....

 

Don't sweat it, Dany. The probability of a brand new K&N filter screwing up your MAF is remote at best.

 

no i do have some for slae though, i bought like 20 for peopel that wanted to buy them, they come pre oiled and ready to go but i have them for sale for 10 plus shipping.

 

Let me see if I've got this straight, Steve. You're selling brand new, metal top, K&N cone filters in the box, wrapped in factory cellophane, for $10.00 each plus shipping? If that's the case, we'll do some business after all.

I'll take two of them. Please provide payment instructions and shipping charges to Southern California.

 

I think he was talking about the cleaning kits, but hey if he wants to sell the filters that cheap Ill take 2 as well.

 

See how you are, remykins? And here I thought Steve was clearing out the K&Ns to make room for those "tackified" MonsterFlows. You just went and spoiled my whole afternoon!