Wait a minute! VQ technology, 3.5 liter V6, 255 horsepower, aluminum engine, variable timing, etc, etc, BUT Rear Multi-Link Beam™ suspension???? I always thought independent suspension was better. My '94 Taurus SHO had independent supension! Come on, if thay can put rear independent suspension in the 2003 Expedition I'm sure the Maxima should have it by now. What's the deal?

 

I know, and I hate it. Makes Maxima handle like a boat and pitch side to side.

New suspension in 2002 Altima SE V6 rocks. Altima looks much lower and it is independent at all four corners. Handles great!

I have no idea why Nissan came up with Multi-Link Beam?!? Maxima should have a real rear independent suspension.

 

Cost reduction. The rumor is Maxima will have IRS back in its 6th Generation.

woreyah, get a Rear Sway Bar installed. Most Maxima owners that have gotten it agree it helps getting the Max's rear end stable.

 

But but but... the gear heads say Rear Beam is better on flat roads then IRS, but IRS woops on the Rear beam on uneven roads.. why? because Rear beam acts like a big RSB.. right? no? yes?

 

the beam will keep the wheels perpendicular to the road, hence more traction. And that works.. UNTIL you hit the slightest imperfection in the road. then things get scary. There are only two times that the beam really bothers me, over speed bumps (rear almost bottoms out at 2mph) and hitting a bump in a long sweeper, like a freeway ramp.

For the demographic this car is aimed at, the rear beam is fine. But it does contradict all that '4 door sports car' marketing crap

 

Come on guys, how fast can you run the 1/4,,isnt that what its really about ! ......I am STILL a gearhead in a Maxx...

 

I hit a 25mph Philly onramp @ around 65mph (maybe more?) & I was going way to fast! I let off the gas & the car OVERSTEERED (yes over, not under!) I was able to correct it by steering in the oposite direction. I didn't feel safe at all - the car felt VERY "wavy" like a boat caught in a tidal wave! Of course, I have the "soft" GLE suspension and no RSB (yet).

Now I know how Steve felt when he lost control & wrecked his Max. Maybe next time I decide to drive aggresive @ 4am, I should choose a straight highway.

G

 

the only reason why i dont like it, is because its harder to do exhaust work with that beam there... the piping has to go over it.. while in the new altima's, the piping goes straight back without having to go over anything.

 

That was LIFT-THROTTLE oversteer. Also called trailing throttle oversteer. It's caused by forward transfer of weight off your rear wheels and the changes in rear tire slip angles and axle steer that result. More common in FWD cars than you'd think, though it's usually pretty mild until you start crowding the limits . . .

Your experience could well have been worse in a car with 4-wheel independent suspension. The outside rear wheel in an IRS car would lose more grip than the outside wheel on a beam axle due to camber change (going in the adverse direction of less-negative/more-positive) The rear suspension would jack up slightly and add its contribution to the excitement. Maybe some thought along those lines relative to at-the-limit driving ability of their intended target driver went into Nissan's decision to go with the beam axle.

Out of pure curiosity, just which Philly on-ramp were you talking about?

Norm

 

Well,
I like challenges so I'll get the RSB and consider springs and struts later. I agree with the cost idea but I'm willing to bet that the next gen Max will have IRS plus some other added features but cost the same. I'm holding out on major mods. :-)

 

Advantages of the beam:
Lower cost
Lower overall weight
Takes up less space
Provides quieter ride due to fewer contact points with the body
Keeps camber constant
Decent handling on smooth surfaces

Disadvantages:
Higher unsprung weight
Handles like crap over any sort of bump

 

And yes my Max still out handles my '94 SHO

 

I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

Try going from an early 5.0 Mustang with the live rear-axle to a 5th-Gen Max with the Multi-Link Beam, it's like night and day.

I'm sure Kloogy can attest, when you hit a bump in a long sweeper in the Mustang, have a change of draws ready.

 

TimW, given that the ML-Beam handles well (better than IRS in some respect) on smooth surfaces wouldn't that make the Max a real 4-door sports sedan?

I mean, think about it. Aside from off-roading, most sports cars are run at the track where there's hardly any imperfections whatsoever.

Just theorizing

As for the IRS vs. ML-Beam debacle when it comes to road racing. Isn't it funny that almost all performance Honda peeps end up getting all sorts of tie bars, sway bars, strut bars to keep those "independency" together?

 

Add to the advantages... reduced intrusion into the trunk, an important consideration for the market the Maxima is really targeting, family sedan. Or, at least, was when they hatched the MLB design.

There have been some write ups about Nissan's multi-link beam design. The multi-link design does not have a panhard link, so side-to-side pitching some have imagined can not occur. The beam is also flexible (it is not a solid axle) limiting the influence of one wheel on the opposite as it follows a bump in the road, although it still does to an extent.

BuddyWh

 

Hiya there, Normi! You sure know your rear beam suspensions! To answer your question, I was getting on the I95-N onramp at the Tacony Area, State Rd & (I forget now)

G

 

The one where you come off northbound State at the traffic light and there's a little ramp that bypasses the light, then you merge into the cross street at/under I-95, then go left up a slight rise? I've been known to lean on it through there a good bit myself.

Dealing with LTO is scary the first time (and it's still a bit so the first time in a long while). I haven't forgotten my two major episodes with it. Ancient history - fortunately no damage except to the pride and a couple of scratches in the paint; merely old history - "loose" in NASCAR-speak has never been more clearly defined (never mind why).

It's all a matter of physics & geometry. Worth noting is that cars are generally more directionally stable when NOT decelerating or under braking. So you need to lift more gradually and be ready to unwind some steering. There are other (more advanced) techniques as well.

BTW, thanks.

Norm

 

Yup, that's the one!

BTW: Do you know if the car meet on Street Rd. is at Hooters, or at TGIF?... Also is it on the last Thursday of each month?

Thanks,
G

 

I wuz going to sez wut u sez but u sez it better den me.

 

I don't know what road courses you've been to but I haven't been to a smooth one yet - Watkins Glen, NHIS, Summit Point, Pocono, Lime Rock, Sebring, Daytona, Bridgehampton. Atlanta is almost smooth. I have had the privelige to road race a number of cars, fwd, rwd, irs and solid axle. I can say that for a 90% set up solid axle is easier, but it really takes irs to get that last 10%, especially with bumps. A good solid axle will work better than a poor independant suspension.
As far as tiebars etc. - no matter what suspension you have chassis stiffness is important so any legal chassis reinforcement is a good thing. Secondly, if you lack skill and patience, setting up a car like a go-cart is the easy way to get decent (not great) performance quickly.
Everything's a compromise. The Max rear is cheap and light. It's also pretty good if not side loaded too much. It does suffer from the common problems of limited travel, cross connection and high unsprung weight. The big problem is that instead of using a Watts link for transverse location Nissan chose that funky dual transverse link with intersecting different radius arcs. This requires a lot of rubber in the linkage, hence slop. There's not much to do to help except stiffening the chassis, getting properly valved rear shocks and a RSB.
Given that the new Altima is IRS and the next Max is based on that shell it's a safe bet that the Max will be returning to IRS.

 

No idea on either. Sorry.

Norm

 

Heavier? I find that hard to beleive. It's got less parts than an independent rear setup and the beam shares the load between both wheels. A Mustang or Camaro's live axle is heavy.

As for the bumps, the Maxima suspension seems to be tuned really well, hence it's 4DSC moniker. Without the RSB, OK long sweeping corners are creepy. But I think Nissan had to do that to promote undertsteer, b/c the regular everyday driver can panic and recover from understeer way better than oversteer.

Now that I have the RSB, long sweeping corners are a whole lotta fun, even the bumpy ones. Again, it comes to the suspension tuning. When taking a bumpy turn, when the front wheels go over the bumps, they are disturbed and loose grip for a moment, mild understeer. When the rear wheels then hit that same bump, b/c the rear is so much lighter, they get disturbed a bit more, but the effect is reversed, oversteer. So the net effect is the front looses track a little but the rear brings the tracking back more. It's alot of fun once you let yourself run with it

DW

 

I think for a four door midsize sedan the max handles pretty damn well. a friend of mine and i went out to keg races for our fraternity and we were driving down a nice windy and hilly country road. he has an impreza 2.5rs, with awd. anyway, he was leading cuz he had the directions, but long story short. he never took me enough on the turns that i didn't catch him in the straights. and i was only barely slowing down for the turns. though he did almost lose it on one turn that i managed to catch a bit of air on. that slowed us down for about a mile.... hehe...

 

Anyone who has been to the Nissan site and viewed the Maxima specs will recongnize this:

Suspension and Steering
Front independent strut suspension S S S
Rear Multi-Link Beam™ suspension S S S
Front and rear stabilizer bars S S S
Sport-tuned suspension – firmer
front and rear springs, front struts and
rear shock absorbers; larger front
stabilizer bar S

According to specs the SE has Front and Rear stabilizer bars, stiffer springs, and a larger stabilizer bar. Well, where are these items on my SE? My SE handles worse than my father's old Deville. I was driving around with a large passenger in my car and the rear end was rediculously loose. He even mentioned it. I'm taking it back to the dealer Friday mourning and have them check it out. I've never driven in a car that was so loose. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

the obvious is to check your tire pressure.. more than about 4psi diff between right and left will cause the max to feel very vague.

 

All Maximas have front and rear sway bars. The SE has a thicker front one. The reason most people don't notice it is because they seem to be designed to be minimally effective. Also, you can barely see the standard ones. I did not realize that I had a rear one standard until someone on the org pointed it out. The rear one is sitting inside the beam. The front one is there, you just have to recognize it amongst all those front end steering parts. My ADDCO rsb is at least twice the thickness the standard rear one.

DW

 

Thanks for the info. I'm going to check the tire pressure today and test drive it. If it aleviates some of the problem I may cancel the appointment. I know it has an effect but that dramatic?

 

if you are running 32 all around and one rear drops to 28, you will know it. it will be very loose feeling. A front is not as bad.

running 36 and dropping to 32 on one rear isnt very dramatic, but my guess is you'd feel that too..

 

!

 

The M45 has what too? If you mean Beam Axle, no it has a full independant suspenion front and back. If you mean sawy Bars, well it has that too, like most (not compact) Japanese cars, if they work well is another story.

 

Oh and by the way. Maybe this should be a new post but:
I e-mailed Koni about 2k2 Max shocks and struts and he stated that they're being tested in Europe as we speak. They may be out as late as next year.