I made an assumption in a previous thread that may or may not be correct. I assumed that, when it comes to purchasing parts for their Maximas, people in this forum are more interested in achieving status than in saving money. I'd like to put that theory to the test.

Let's assume that you had made a decision to purchase a rear section for your Maxima. We'll also assume that you had narrowed your choices down to either an HKS rear section or a custom-built rear section based around a Magnaflow Stainless Steel muffler. I'll also stipulate that your funds are somewhat limited and that there are other things you'd like to purchase for your Maxima as well (e.g., FSTB, RSB, intake, rims, tires, etc.).

Let's go on to say that both the HKS and Magnflow rear sections will be professionally installed and that they both look good, sound good, and perform identically well. (I have thus removed performance and esoteric issues from consideration.) The only difference is that the HKS costs more than twice as much as the Magnaflow (including installation). However, the HKS carries a "brand" name that confers upon its purchasers a degree of status that the Magnaflow does not confer.

Which would you purchase . . . the HKS rear section or the Magnaflow rear section?

 

I would choose the Magnaflow ONLY if the look of it after installation looked as professional as the HKS section, which you said it did!

 

Yes, Yomie. I did stipulate that the Magnaflow would look as professionally installed as the HKS. But thanks for checking.

I used a rear section for this example rather than a complete catback system because any REPUTABLE muffler shop can build and install a rear section for a Maxima that provides a professional fit and finish.

 

This is a loaded question. Answering admits one is better than the other. You state it as fact, but seems like opinion. I myself prefer the soft grumble of the stock muff.

 

I see you did not read my post, noflash. Keeping your stock muffler is not an option. And I've endeavored to keep all the factors other than status equal. Sorry I didn't think of everything.

Noflash raises a good point. So for purposes of this discussion, we'll assume that the build quality of the Magnaflow muffler and the HKS muffler are equal (which, by the way, they probably are).

 

Settle down beavis. I read you post, don't get ****y. Sorry I don't want to play by the rules of your "fantasy" poll. I see you're trying to make a point, but you method is flawed. "Let's assume a Ferrari and a Maxima have the same perfomance characteristics, which one would you buy?" Dig?

 

Come on you guys. You're making me look bad here. And I KNOW that some of you, for example, purchased Stillen FSTBs for $160+ when you could have purchased Courtesy FSTBs for less than half that amount. Aren't any of you going to admit that you bought your Stillen bar for the status it conveyed?

Those of you who are more interested in status than in saving money don't need to be concerned that we'll figure out who you are. Your votes are entirely anonymous!

Courage, folks. Courage!

 

Terrific logic, butthead. Let's do just that . . . except let's assume that the Ferrari costs more than twice as much as the Maxima. Now which one would you buy? Get it?

 

All right! Somebody stepped up and said they would buy the HKS rear section. Good for whoever that was. I KNOW you're not alone. The question is, who else has the guts to admit it?

 

Kid, you bug. That's the same damn logic in your poll. Why make unrealistic assumptions to get you point across? Why try to insult those with HKS? Should I buy my clothes from Kmart? Why are you trying to insult me? How obscure is the man that would give higher status to someone because of their muffler? WHAT?!? There are some people here who spend their money on what they think is the best. Are those who have H&R Springs ego-maniacs b/c they had to have the status from those expensive springs? NO, they are paying extra because in their opinion they are getting something more for their money.

I was just playing devil's advocate to try and show you the limitations of your post. Plus your tone is really condescending and I had to mess with you.

 

Go for the status and get a Greddy exhaust

 

If all things are equal then the lower price should win every time. However you used the analogy of the Stillen vs Courtesy FSTB as an example of equal quality but different prestige. I must respectfully disagree. The Stillen bar is flatter than the courtesy bar (which I own). This small difference results in the Courstesy bar sometimes pressing on the windshield wiper nozzle decreasing flow. Granted a minor problem, however if I had known this in advance I would have bought the Stillen bar. So if the question is which is a better value then Courstesy wins. But the better built FSTB is Stillen's.
To get back on the topic of your poll. We may spend more on similar products because of the possibility the higher priced item may have advantages that are not readily apparent at first. An example would be customer service, country of orgin or warranty. It is not necessary status or prestige that is being sought. Perhaps a more interesting debate is buying the best regardless of price vs. best value (bang for the buck.
y

 

But they are not the same:
"Let's go on to say that both the HKS and Magnflow rear sections will be professionally installed and that they both look good, sound good, and perform identically well. (I have thus removed performance and esoteric issues from consideration.)"

Even with subtle differences, the result can sway towards one side. They both look good, but do they look exactly the same? They both sound good, but do they sound exactly the same?

Same thing with the FSTB example. Stillen is a solid bar while Courtesy sells a hollow bar. Theoretically they should perform the same, but under high stress Stillen's bar will outperform the Courtesy bar (and Stillen's bar looks much better).

You can't compare two products like that if they aren't EXACTLY the same thing.

 

Previous to purchasing my Max a few weeks ago, I had a 91 Toyota Pickup. Only mods were 3 in trailmaster lift kit, a nice set of Eagle alloy wheels and tint. Never did any performance mods. Consequently the brand names mean nothing to me, I have no idea who is supposed to be superior. Magnaflow is a pretty cool brand name and since it is cheaper, but performs equally I must go with it.



Hobert

 

With all due respect, the results of this poll so far seem to be speaking for themselves.

I agree with you, Kev, that everything is not equal between a Magnaflow rear section and an HKS rear section. But I'd argue that the two rear sections are close enough in fit, finish, performance, sound, build quality and esoterics that it's difficult to construct a logical argument in favor of the HKS. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that anyone who purchases an HKS rear section knowing that a Magnaflow (or Flowmaster, or Dynomax) rear section is available for a fraction of the cost must be doing so for other than logical reasons. And I believe it would be difficult to make a "best value" argument in favor of the HKS given the disparity in price between the HKS and these other worthy contenders.

y sleep makes a good point. I agree that the Courtesy bar has been known to pinch the driver's side windshield washer nozzle and that the Stillen bar won't do that. But the OBX bar is flat, solid instead of hollow, costs around $60.00, fits perfectly and should not pinch the driver's side windshield washer nozzle. And yet I'll bet that people will still buy the Stillen bar even though it costs fully $100.00 more than the OMG. I'll also add that I've never heard of a Courtesy FSTB failing regardless of the fact that it's hollow.

Does that make people who buy Stillen FSTBs and HKS rear sections stupid? Of course not. Does it make their purchase decisions irrational? I'll let the results of this poll speak to that issue. Are irrational decisions "bad" or "wrong"? I dunno. Ever fall in love?

 

Okay, I am not messin' with you, but why did you buy the Stillen RSB instead the Addco RSB for less than half the cost?

 

All go and little show!

Magnaflow for sure.

 

When I purchased my Stillen RSB, there was still some question as to whether the Addco RSB would fit a 5th Gen properly. Also, I believe the Addco RSB connects up differently than a Stillen RSB and that it's not adjustable. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

Fair enough. I'm still questioning whether it fits properly myself. It's supposed to be adjustable though. And for sake of your poll, with the exception of tires, I went with the best of the cheapest for all my goodies - see sig.

 

I'm in sales and have been since 1988 when I first entered the computer sales arena. I've come to the realization that it's all about marketing. The (very accurate) marketing done by companies like Stillen and HKS (etc.) results in significant mindshare gains made with the impressionable 20-something males so common on Maxima.org. Anyone who consistently makes purchase decisions based on the perceived status of owning said item is simply suffering from low self esteem. In the long run, I can assure you, no one really cares who made the FSTB or rear section you have on your car.

Scott Buchanan
2K SE (with stuff made by people somewhere)

 

I've also been in sales for a long time, Scott. And I agree with your comments about marketing. But I'm not altogether certain I agree that those who make purchase decisions on the perceived status of owning something are simply suffering from low self esteem. Perhaps a stonger argument for your position could be made if the products themselves were of poor quality. But in the case of Stillen and HKS, they are not. Are they overpriced? Yes. But for the most part, they are quality products nonetheless. And those who purchase them based on their brand names can rest relatively easy in the knowledge that the products will work as advertised and hold up for the long haul.

BTW, if it sounds to some of you that I'm taking the devil's advocate position in all this, it's because I am! Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that no one has made the perceived quality argument yet (although y sleep came real close). That, at least, would be a logical reason for paying too much for a product.

 

I chose the words "those who make purchase decisions based on the perceived status of owning something" because that's what I'm limiting my argument to. Had I meant to include "perceived or actual quality", then I would have said that. I don't doubt that the premium manufacturers mentioned make a very good product. Nor do I doubt that they have many buyers lined up to purchase it/them. My point, again, is that "purchase decisions based on the perceived status of owning something" are a sign of low self-esteem and an impressionable mind.

Scott

 

Well there's certainly some perceived status in owning a Ferrari. And I doubt that Ferrari owners, as a group, tend to suffer from low self-esteem. But I'll relinquish the point.

 

I doubt the decision to purchase a Ferrari, even when made by the ridiculously rich, is made entirely on the basis of "perceived status". Therefore, this example also falls outside the parameters of my argument. But then, you already relinquished the point.

 

If both cat backs sound alike, look alike after installation, and perform alike, if i was tight in the wallet i'd do the MagnaFlow. But if i did have to the money to cover both costs i'd take the HKS name anyday. A repitable name makes a person feel at ease. No one wants something thats no named. would you buy a kia before a nissan...?

 

True.

 

if they are exactly the same and the brand name is the only difference i'd definitely go with the cheaper one.

real life example: (although on a MUCH smaller scale)
i went into walmart last week because i wanted to buy mouthwash as my Listerine just ran out. i went to the aisle with the mouthwash and i look at the Listerine....$5.89 for a bottle! right next to it is "Equate" mouthwash (walmart generic brand) for $1.89. i turned both brands over and read the back. the ingredients were IDENTICAL! same EXACT percentages of the same EXACT ingredients. the only difference was the brand name. i decided that i'd get the Equate and not pay the extra 200% just to say that i wash my mouth with Listerine

hah, that totally isnt the same thing but its the same general idea. thanks for listening

 

age vis-a-vis most of the other board members have taught me something, namely, you typically get what u pay for when refering to things mechanical. Yes, some of this which u get is indeed purely visceral and aesthetic and if that's important to you, BFD. I wait until I can reasonably afford it and then do it.

Plus, I made the decision to trade down to a more reasonable (less$$$$) car when I bought the Max so I could add some things to it and still feel that I'm not absurdly throwing moolah away.
But, I do it when I can...not stupidly so, witness my rather limited set of mods for en eight-month old car..

Anyhow: guilty as charged with Eibachs ($$), Tokicos ($$$), SSR Integrals ($$$$$$$$$$$ for a stupid wheel) and deciding whether next mods are brakes or the Stillen RSW and FSTB ($$$$$$$$)
There. I said it.

 

I don't know I hafta stick with the status of being a Listerine user.

 

HKS does not equal Magnaflow in quality. Some things are just as good(ie.. rear swaybar imho) but some things are not(ie.. paint jobs)

 

Again, close enough will not do it. If you're comparing name brands, you have to let all variables be equal. The FSTBs/mufflers have to be EXACTLY the same for your poll to work.

Let's say you found out that MaxRev makes Cattman y-pipes, but they sold them at a much lower price. Which would you buy? The pipes from MaxRev of course.

Courtesy vs. Stillen vs. OBX... You can't assume they are all of the same quality. Stillen has the best looking one. I bought Stillen's FSTB for the looks and functionality. If XYZ came out with the same bar as Stillen's (minus the red letters), I would get from XYZ.

There are too many variables to factor in when comparing products that are slightly different.

 

I understand your precept, that one purchases an item on the basis of name (status) as much as the function,

Let me pose this question, say it wasn't anything aesthetic that could be see, say a oil pump, internal to the engine, would you replace it with a name brand or one generic of equal quality?

then it's not a matter of status but of value or reputation

dave

 

What exactly is the price difference in the two? How much is the HKS and how much is the Magnaflow??

 

A Magnaflow Stainless Steel muffler installed will run around $150.00 - $175.00. I believe an HKS rear section goes for around $400.00.

 

Some, my friend, would argue that Magnaflow IS a brand name with an impeccable reputation. And I would be among them . . .

 

So what if it is?? It STILL might not be as good as the HKS in quality.

HKS is one of the most highly regarded companies in Japan in regards to quality. They are god in Japan. Have you seen a HKS catalog?

 

Well seeing the price difference, I would definately get the magnaflow stainless steel. Seing that I want other mods and I will be selling my Max next year that would same me money for other mods.. Next year I'm giving up my need for speed and decided not to get a BMW 330 CI, but a Lexus GS300.. Where could I get a Magnaflow exhaust system???

 

I understand, Kev. But the only way to get a PERFECT duplicate of, for example, an HKS rear section is to purchase another HKS rear section. For some, there simply is no substitute. But I suspect they're in the minority, especially when the price delta is as substantial as it is in the case of HKS vs. Magnaflow (or Flowmaster, or DynoMax, or . . .).

 

Well we could bandy this about for the rest of our lives, folks. But I doubt it would change the results of this poll very much. And my hats are off to you for pointing out the error of my thinking. You're a whole lot smarter than I gave you credit for.



Adios, muchachos! (Hi, Ho, Silver . . . AWAY!)

 

when it comes to purchasing anything, quite a few criterion are always considered. the priority of each differs for everyone because we are all different.

take myself for example, some may believe i have a skewed sense of money management since i would gladly pay more to purchase something i find more aesthetically pleasing, even if similar in performance. once again, it all comes down to what each individual finds more important. i dont think any one view is BETTER than another.

yes, i would spend more money to purchase something i would be more HAPPY with, EVEN, if it were "overpriced." why? because i would be happier with it.

let me ask you this question, why arent you driving a GXE?