What's w/ the torque steer on Nissans lately?
02-07-2003, 02:29 PM
#1
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What's w/ the torque steer on Nissans lately?
Seems that lately any auto reviewer that tests V6 Nissans w/ FWD notices a huge amount of torque steer, the worst w/ the Altima 3.5SE. After reading the latest issue of Motor Trend, they've also noticed torque steer in the '04 Max SE but not as much as the Altima 3.5SE. Just wondering is there a way to cure torque steer or is that something to get used to?
02-07-2003, 04:30 PM
#3
Ugh. It's because never in the history of Nissan or FWD cars have they had so much power. You understand how fwd works right? Unequal length driveshafts will do that. I bet the TS in the Max is lower because of the LSD differential.
Audi and BMW? Since when would a BMW have much torque steer? Audi combats their TS w/ AWD.
Audi and BMW? Since when would a BMW have much torque steer? Audi combats their TS w/ AWD.
02-07-2003, 04:38 PM
#4
Ummm, BMW cars are for the most part, RWD. So, they don't have TQ steer to figure out in the first place.
As for Audi, all their high power cars, like the S4, RS6, A8 etc, have AWD. So, on both counts, it's really not a fair comparison.
With the Maxima and Altima, Nissan has a High power High TQ motor driving only the front wheels. Look at any other car like that. For example, the Saab Viggen, the 300 hp Cadillac Deville. Most high powered front drivers start to have trouble dealing with >260 hp driving the front wheels only.
This makes me think of the Acura TL/CL-S series. They're high powered front drivers, too, and I don't hear much about TQ steer with them. But VTEC Honda motors are known for not having too much TQ down low. In other words, when the VTEC kicks in at >5000 rpm in those cars, chances are the steering is pointed straight ahead
DW
As for Audi, all their high power cars, like the S4, RS6, A8 etc, have AWD. So, on both counts, it's really not a fair comparison.
With the Maxima and Altima, Nissan has a High power High TQ motor driving only the front wheels. Look at any other car like that. For example, the Saab Viggen, the 300 hp Cadillac Deville. Most high powered front drivers start to have trouble dealing with >260 hp driving the front wheels only.
This makes me think of the Acura TL/CL-S series. They're high powered front drivers, too, and I don't hear much about TQ steer with them. But VTEC Honda motors are known for not having too much TQ down low. In other words, when the VTEC kicks in at >5000 rpm in those cars, chances are the steering is pointed straight ahead
DW
02-07-2003, 10:28 PM
#5
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Originally posted by dwapenyi
Ummm, BMW cars are for the most part, RWD. So, they don't have TQ steer to figure out in the first place.
As for Audi, all their high power cars, like the S4, RS6, A8 etc, have AWD. So, on both counts, it's really not a fair comparison.
With the Maxima and Altima, Nissan has a High power High TQ motor driving only the front wheels. Look at any other car like that. For example, the Saab Viggen, the 300 hp Cadillac Deville. Most high powered front drivers start to have trouble dealing with >260 hp driving the front wheels only.
This makes me think of the Acura TL/CL-S series. They're high powered front drivers, too, and I don't hear much about TQ steer with them. But VTEC Honda motors are known for not having too much TQ down low. In other words, when the VTEC kicks in at >5000 rpm in those cars, chances are the steering is pointed straight ahead
DW
Ummm, BMW cars are for the most part, RWD. So, they don't have TQ steer to figure out in the first place.
As for Audi, all their high power cars, like the S4, RS6, A8 etc, have AWD. So, on both counts, it's really not a fair comparison.
With the Maxima and Altima, Nissan has a High power High TQ motor driving only the front wheels. Look at any other car like that. For example, the Saab Viggen, the 300 hp Cadillac Deville. Most high powered front drivers start to have trouble dealing with >260 hp driving the front wheels only.
This makes me think of the Acura TL/CL-S series. They're high powered front drivers, too, and I don't hear much about TQ steer with them. But VTEC Honda motors are known for not having too much TQ down low. In other words, when the VTEC kicks in at >5000 rpm in those cars, chances are the steering is pointed straight ahead
DW
02-07-2003, 10:55 PM
#6
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Speed-sensitive power steering also compensates a lot for low-end torque steer in the TL's, CL's... it's of the rpm-based variant.. the higher the rpms, the tighter the steering to reduce torque steer, ... low rpms is smooth for ease of parking.
02-07-2003, 11:49 PM
#7
I can't really see how that's possible, unless it is a very sophisticated power steering mechanism. Usually, rpm adjusted power steering boost is there to enhance road feel at high speeds.
DW
DW
Originally posted by PeterUbers
Speed-sensitive power steering also compensates a lot for low-end torque steer in the TL's, CL's... it's of the rpm-based variant.. the higher the rpms, the tighter the steering to reduce torque steer, ... low rpms is smooth for ease of parking.
Speed-sensitive power steering also compensates a lot for low-end torque steer in the TL's, CL's... it's of the rpm-based variant.. the higher the rpms, the tighter the steering to reduce torque steer, ... low rpms is smooth for ease of parking.
02-08-2003, 02:08 PM
#9
It would be nice to put that system to the test, but since all their powerful motors get mated to AWD, who knows
They won't sell you an A4 2.7T, FWD an A6 4.2 FWD, etc.
DW
They won't sell you an A4 2.7T, FWD an A6 4.2 FWD, etc.
DW
Originally posted by 4DRSpeed
Car & Driver states that Audi has figured out a way with suspension geometry for their FWD cars that decreases torque steer.
Car & Driver states that Audi has figured out a way with suspension geometry for their FWD cars that decreases torque steer.
02-08-2003, 05:13 PM
#10
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Re: What's w/ the torque steer on Nissans lately?
Originally posted by Wht98SE
Seems that lately any auto reviewer that tests V6 Nissans w/ FWD notices a huge amount of torque steer, the worst w/ the Altima 3.5SE. After reading the latest issue of Motor Trend, they've also noticed torque steer in the '04 Max SE but not as much as the Altima 3.5SE. Just wondering is there a way to cure torque steer or is that something to get used to?
Seems that lately any auto reviewer that tests V6 Nissans w/ FWD notices a huge amount of torque steer, the worst w/ the Altima 3.5SE. After reading the latest issue of Motor Trend, they've also noticed torque steer in the '04 Max SE but not as much as the Altima 3.5SE. Just wondering is there a way to cure torque steer or is that something to get used to?
02-08-2003, 08:49 PM
#11
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Originally posted by dwapenyi
I can't really see how that's possible, unless it is a very sophisticated power steering mechanism. Usually, rpm adjusted power steering boost is there to enhance road feel at high speeds.
DW
I can't really see how that's possible, unless it is a very sophisticated power steering mechanism. Usually, rpm adjusted power steering boost is there to enhance road feel at high speeds.
DW
02-09-2003, 01:41 PM
#13
Originally posted by 4DRSpeed
IMO, Nissan should have made the Maxima AWD to make it a little more different from the Altima.
IMO, Nissan should have made the Maxima AWD to make it a little more different from the Altima.
02-09-2003, 06:04 PM
#14
The drive-by-wire had a mind of it's own, that was part of the problem. And with the added weight of the new Maxima "10 extra ponies" is going to cut it to get it faster than the '02 Maxima, most likely.
Maybe if the drive-by-wire didn't have a mind of it's own, it could have possibly seen 5.9, but who knows. I want to see a comparo of other sedans with the new Max in it.
Maybe if the drive-by-wire didn't have a mind of it's own, it could have possibly seen 5.9, but who knows. I want to see a comparo of other sedans with the new Max in it.
02-09-2003, 06:25 PM
#15
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Originally posted by 4DRSpeed
In Car & Driver's new issue they mention that Audi and BMW have figured out ways to decrease torque steer, they don't understand why Nissan hasn't done it yet.
In Car & Driver's new issue they mention that Audi and BMW have figured out ways to decrease torque steer, they don't understand why Nissan hasn't done it yet.
02-11-2003, 10:38 AM
#16
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My 94 SHO had zero torque steer in any gear at any speed. If you mashed the gas from a dead stop without your hands on the wheel it would go straight. The torque steer in my 02 Altima 2.5s auto is bordering on scary when you first experience it, its bad enough that I generally avoid passing on dotted yellow lines because the car tends to want to go all over the road...this from a 4 cylinder? Its not because the engines are powerful...its because eliminating torque steer wasn't high on the list for the design engineers. I'm guessing Nissan wanted to spend their design money more on aluminum bits and boday parts than making the drivetrain right.
02-11-2003, 12:27 PM
#17
What?!? Something must wrong w/ your car then. When I drove my brother's 92-93 SHO 5-sp w/ rims/tires, that damn thing was scary. If you lit up the tires from a stop, that damn thing would near take a 90 deg turn!
As far as "not high on the list". Well that's why Nissan went with HLSD vs VLSD in the new models?
As far as "not high on the list". Well that's why Nissan went with HLSD vs VLSD in the new models?
Originally posted by TDoyle
My 94 SHO had zero torque steer in any gear at any speed. If you mashed the gas from a dead stop without your hands on the wheel it would go straight. The torque steer in my 02 Altima 2.5s auto is bordering on scary when you first experience it, its bad enough that I generally avoid passing on dotted yellow lines because the car tends to want to go all over the road...this from a 4 cylinder? Its not because the engines are powerful...its because eliminating torque steer wasn't high on the list for the design engineers. I'm guessing Nissan wanted to spend their design money more on aluminum bits and boday parts than making the drivetrain right.
My 94 SHO had zero torque steer in any gear at any speed. If you mashed the gas from a dead stop without your hands on the wheel it would go straight. The torque steer in my 02 Altima 2.5s auto is bordering on scary when you first experience it, its bad enough that I generally avoid passing on dotted yellow lines because the car tends to want to go all over the road...this from a 4 cylinder? Its not because the engines are powerful...its because eliminating torque steer wasn't high on the list for the design engineers. I'm guessing Nissan wanted to spend their design money more on aluminum bits and boday parts than making the drivetrain right.
02-11-2003, 12:52 PM
#18
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ANY high-powered Audi has AWD by default, which takes care of pretty much every TS problem.
What Audi is pushing 265 lb-ft of torque through ONLY the front tires?
As for Honda's, I never had any torque steer issues in my 2001 Accord V6. Of course, that could have been because the stupid engine only had 4-CYLINDER LEVEL TORQUE below 4000rpm
The Type-S Acura's? 260HP is a lot, but 232TQ is still much less than the Nissan's. Of course they have fewer problems because they have much less torque at the wheels. They're all automatics too, except the CL-S 6spd.
You can't have torque steer without torque!
What Audi is pushing 265 lb-ft of torque through ONLY the front tires?
As for Honda's, I never had any torque steer issues in my 2001 Accord V6. Of course, that could have been because the stupid engine only had 4-CYLINDER LEVEL TORQUE below 4000rpm
The Type-S Acura's? 260HP is a lot, but 232TQ is still much less than the Nissan's. Of course they have fewer problems because they have much less torque at the wheels. They're all automatics too, except the CL-S 6spd.
You can't have torque steer without torque!
02-11-2003, 10:27 PM
#19
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Originally posted by dwapenyi
I can't really see how that's possible, unless it is a very sophisticated power steering mechanism. Usually, rpm adjusted power steering boost is there to enhance road feel at high speeds.
DW
I can't really see how that's possible, unless it is a very sophisticated power steering mechanism. Usually, rpm adjusted power steering boost is there to enhance road feel at high speeds.
DW
02-11-2003, 10:50 PM
#20
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...
I cant agree more with the SHO statement, I drove a 96 model i believe with the v8 engine.. HAHA thats like riding a camel or something =X couldnt control that thing if your life depended on it.
Maxima is going to be a 5 spd fwd (auto, 6spd manual), and if its anything like the altima, u might wanna keep 2 hands on the steerin wheel, that altima kicks like a mule. I personally like it, makes you feel like a man and that tire skreeching out sounds neet =)
However, lets not compare the Maxima to the BMWs. maxima might have better pep to go in a straight line vs the bmw 530s and below, but bmw has totally mad handles and nice distribution of power. MAxima cant be classfied in the same class.
Maxima is going to be a 5 spd fwd (auto, 6spd manual), and if its anything like the altima, u might wanna keep 2 hands on the steerin wheel, that altima kicks like a mule. I personally like it, makes you feel like a man and that tire skreeching out sounds neet =)
However, lets not compare the Maxima to the BMWs. maxima might have better pep to go in a straight line vs the bmw 530s and below, but bmw has totally mad handles and nice distribution of power. MAxima cant be classfied in the same class.
02-12-2003, 09:14 AM
#22
I beg to differ here. Nissan could have decreased torque steer or "crabbing" as I like to call it (crabs kinda walk sideways), by having true equal length driveshafts. I had an '86 626 Turbo and that thing was crazy fun booting out of turns. Mazda said they had reduced torque steer by installing a bearing in the tranny, effectively creating equal length driveshafts. Yea, right. Anyway, the Celica GTS I test drove in that era exhibited very little tug on the wheel, not sure if it had less torque, but it had true equal length shafts.
I don't see how suspension geometry can alleviate a high-torque/unequal-length driveshaft FWD Max. Sorry.
, by having true equal length driveshafts. I had an '86 626 Turbo and that thing was crazy fun booting out of turns. Mazda said they had reduced torque steer by installing a bearing in the tranny, effectively creating equal length driveshafts. Yea, right. Anyway, the Celica GTS I test drove in that era exhibited very little tug on the wheel, not sure if it had less torque, but it had true equal length shafts.I don't see how suspension geometry can alleviate a high-torque/unequal-length driveshaft FWD Max. Sorry.
02-12-2003, 02:20 PM
#25
It is a big help. In fact, it's the only reason why Nissan uses lsd differentials. These things add a fairly big cost to the car and they would NOT be offering it unless it's necessary. Read any review of any turbo Volvo or turbo Saab. Magazines hate the torque steer on those cars(because of their good torque but mostly because they don't have lsd differentials)
Originally posted by 95bluse
I seriously doubt HLSD will be a big help.
I seriously doubt HLSD will be a big help.
02-12-2003, 03:36 PM
#26
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I haven't driven a 2k2/2k3 without HLSD, so I can't compare the experience against my 2k2 that does have it. All I can say is that I have absolutely zero torque steer EXCEPT on bumpy/uneven pavement in first gear at WOT. Take away the crappy pavement exception and I have no troubles launching in a straight line. Judging from what I've heard on the 5th gen forums about torque steer experience on non-HLSD cars vs. HLSD equipped cars, it appears that it does make a big difference.
02-13-2003, 06:21 AM
#27
Originally posted by Jeff92se
It is a big help. In fact, it's the only reason why Nissan uses lsd differentials. These things add a fairly big cost to the car and they would NOT be offering it unless it's necessary. Read any review of any turbo Volvo or turbo Saab. Magazines hate the torque steer on those cars(because of their good torque but mostly because they don't have lsd differentials)
It is a big help. In fact, it's the only reason why Nissan uses lsd differentials. These things add a fairly big cost to the car and they would NOT be offering it unless it's necessary. Read any review of any turbo Volvo or turbo Saab. Magazines hate the torque steer on those cars(because of their good torque but mostly because they don't have lsd differentials)
02-13-2003, 06:25 AM
#28
Originally posted by Chance
I haven't driven a 2k2/2k3 without HLSD, so I can't compare the experience against my 2k2 that does have it. All I can say is that I have absolutely zero torque steer EXCEPT on bumpy/uneven pavement in first gear at WOT. Take away the crappy pavement exception and I have no troubles launching in a straight line. Judging from what I've heard on the 5th gen forums about torque steer experience on non-HLSD cars vs. HLSD equipped cars, it appears that it does make a big difference.
I haven't driven a 2k2/2k3 without HLSD, so I can't compare the experience against my 2k2 that does have it. All I can say is that I have absolutely zero torque steer EXCEPT on bumpy/uneven pavement in first gear at WOT. Take away the crappy pavement exception and I have no troubles launching in a straight line. Judging from what I've heard on the 5th gen forums about torque steer experience on non-HLSD cars vs. HLSD equipped cars, it appears that it does make a big difference.
02-13-2003, 07:05 AM
#29
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Originally posted by 95bluse
We're not talking torque steer with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That's not a big deal for most high torque FWD cars (with or without LSD). Hang a right turn & stomp on the gas, that's torque steer!
We're not talking torque steer with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That's not a big deal for most high torque FWD cars (with or without LSD). Hang a right turn & stomp on the gas, that's torque steer!
02-13-2003, 09:24 AM
#30
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Originally posted by 95bluse
We're not talking torque steer with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That's not a big deal for most high torque FWD cars (with or without LSD). Hang a right turn & stomp on the gas, that's torque steer!
We're not talking torque steer with the wheels pointed straight ahead. That's not a big deal for most high torque FWD cars (with or without LSD). Hang a right turn & stomp on the gas, that's torque steer!
I compare it to riding one of those wooden sleds with the metal rails as a kid in the winter. When someone pushes you from behind you still have control of the wooden rudder up front and stay straight for the most part, but when someone pulls you with the rope from the front, momentarily you don't have control of the rudder. That's torque steer.
02-13-2003, 10:38 AM
#31
I think tthis torque steer is the reason why the turning circle on the 5th gens is so wide, compared to the 4th gens. Nissan doesn't want anyone applying full throttle at a 90 degree turn. The stress on the CV axle would be un-beleivable, and those axles would probably break.
DW
DW
02-13-2003, 01:30 PM
#32
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I test drove an 02 MAX SE with HLSD and it didn't torque one bit...thats the LSD doing its job by applying equal power to bith front wheels. My nephew has an 02 GXE ATX and that sucker will put you in a ditch if you're not careful when you pass someone...romp on the gas at 45mph and it kicks down to second and takes a hard right (or left...I forget) if you don't have both hands on the wheel. My 02 Altima 2.5 does this to a lesser degree, but its still loads worse than my SHO ever was. My friend's SPECV doesn't exhibit this beahvior at all, but it also has an HLSD.
I still say poor design...they just didn't take into account torque steer at all, the LSD is simply a band aid...I wonder if they ever planned on offering it before they realized they had a torque steer problem. I also wonder why you can't get one on the Altima 3.5.
I still say poor design...they just didn't take into account torque steer at all, the LSD is simply a band aid...I wonder if they ever planned on offering it before they realized they had a torque steer problem. I also wonder why you can't get one on the Altima 3.5.
02-14-2003, 06:32 PM
#33
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i dunno...i know i have a 3rd gen VE so the engine isnt as powerful (im an auto as well) but i dont really see where the torque steer thing makes a difference...even tho i so sumtimes drive like a retard, who foolrs the car while making a hard turn? i cant think of one time i have done that while owning this car (my 1st btw) and yes, the car has a little bit of torque steer, but only when i nail the gas from a slight roll...and i dont think thats something people normally do...i dunno, the whole torque steer thing i dont get 2 much...not a big deal 2 me???
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