krbga

Who would make a better car....

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

hands down.... JAPAN!

SteVTEC

The 03 Maxima's were all built in Tennesse if I'm not mistaken, and I'm pretty sure the 03 guys had much fewer problems than the 02 guys did.

Overall vehicle quality/reliability doesn't necessarily correlate to where it was built.

vito1281

I thought 04 Max's are the FIRST to be built in the US. Can anyone confirm?

I looked at my 03's sticker, and it says made in japan.

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

Yea, all 03 and earlier were produced in japan, onyl 2004 maxs are built here.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I would attribute the 03 being better built than the 02 simply because the 02 was the 1st. You know, version 1.0. The 2002 Maxima was the 1st VQ35, the 1st drive by wire throttle, the 1st 6 speed, the 1st with HIDs etc.

DW

krbga

Loyal Japanese Worker: "I'am sorry, I will not bring shame to the family."

Union Tenn Worker: "So what, go ahead and write me up...bring it up at the next Union Meeting...btw I want a raise." "Tommorrow I'm gonna call in sick."

btw. my buddy is a Auto Assembly Union worker...confirms "true that."
btw. 15vacation days,12sick days,3personal days,4 berevement days.
and he also wants a raise.

btw. His last reveiw rating was: "Needs Improvement"

kronnman

iTrader: (2)

Actually, the 03 Maxima's were still built in Japan. The eleventh character in the VIN number tells us where the vehicle was manufactured.(ex. JN1DA31A13T421092 ) is a VIN number for a 2003 Maxima SE. The "T" in the VIN tells me that this car was manufactured in Oppama, Japan.
I got this information from the FSM for my 2K2.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

i figured my 02 was better because it was made in japan and the 03's were made in the US. but im sure less 03's were sold than 02's made thats why theirs less complaints? and maybe its the altima 03 that was made in the US

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

Are we sure that the workers in US are in a union? I know BMW has a plant in the US for the Z3/Z4 and they, the workers, opted out of a union. The Nissan employees may have doen the same thing. Personally, unions have outlived their usefulness in the US. The teacher's union is a prime example, no offense.

SteVTEC

Well I'll be darned. I could have sworn that I read a Nissan press release stating that the 03 Maxima's were all being built in the new Tenn. plant. Oh well. I guess they meant the new 04 Maxima or something. Makes sense I guess. Why tool up a plant to build a car for just half a year

As for worker's unions, I hope the Nissan plant isn't unionized - it makes a big difference.

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

Thats actually what I hear alot!

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

It's kind of sad that where once Unions protected workers from injustices of large corporations, they now serve to get something for nothing in as much quantity as they can.

Even sadder, it seems to me that more auto Union workers have loyalty and pride in their particular Union but much less so for the company or cars that they build.

sammax89

: Nissan facilities are NOT unionized. The UAW tried this past year and failed. Thank goodness. If that were to happen, there is NO hope. As an aside, I read in either BW or Money that DCX was gonna have it's M-Class plant become unionized to create parity with Chrysler's other N.A. plants. The M-Class is already sub-par in materials, now assembly will be a disaster as well.

: Nissan is making the Maxima in TN at all (the reason the Gen6 is so unremarkable and too close to the Altima is Nissan's rush to just get it built here ASAP). Toyota has shown that a quality car can be made in N.A, but ONLY IF the local suppliers are FORCED to meet strict quality controls... or their a$$ is grass! With qualified assemblers (read non-union), ANY car built in America can be world class, but the parts going into the car have to be made to exacting standards. Nissan has chucked it's Japanese suppliers who have built a very long term relationship with Nissan. That said, I have driven Sentras and pre-2002 Altimas and detected no junky stuff.

I think Nissans decision to go to suppliers and say: "I need part XY, now build this thing as cheaply as possible... to hell with it's tactile qualities.." will hurt them until they decide for a turn around. I mean, Mazda and Isuzu and Mitsu already cater to the lower end who will accept lower quality for a lower price than a top tier Japanese product. Nissan has been in parity with Toyota and Honda... why switch to a cheapened image? Nissan is doing the impossible... cheapening it's cars and charging even MORE! Everytime an article is written about how cheezy Nissan interiors are, there goes a conquest customer used to classy surroundings by the competition.

IMHO, I think Nissan is becoming too much like Renault... daring, vibrant designs are fine. It can be a problem if tastes change quickly and all of a sudden your design direction looks dated. Timeless designs endure. Just imagine the Altima without the Chrome in the taillights (clearly a fad)... and with a Camry or Audi-like quality interior... Unbeatable! Imagine the Maxima as RWD/AWD and a body not to be confused with anything else... now THAT'S a flagship!

JAKE02

I disagree...... a high quality car co. makes a high quality car no matter where the factory is.............Look at Toyota Camry/Honda Accord......both 90% made in Ky and Ohio.....and they are equal to their Japaneese counterparts.......the list goes on.....Toyota Tundra made in Indiana.......but it still has a high quality company making the product......

MaxSand02

Actually, the first J in the VIN indicates Japanese make. The US made vehicles have VINs starting with 1.

Jaws

...or a 4.

Mike S.

Yep, the TN plant is a non-union plant. They vote like every year on it and its not even close...like 70/30. I think its fine without the union, there paid well, good working conditions....whats the point. This isn't a steel pant at the turn of the century.

whitemax99gle

I know this is a stupid question, but what is the difference between a union and nonunion plant? Pros and cons

jbgoodmax

I'm just touching the tip of IT, but in simple terms. Unions ask for too much for the type of work, and protects "bad apples". Non-Unions will get rid of bad apples and earn a "fair" wage.

Unions (often times) employ "good old boys"(black, white, and ...) who feel they are entilted to do a poor job and get paid very well for it.

My first pass, there are a lot more perspectives but I don't want to go there.

MaxSand02

I don't have the first hand experience on the subject. I may be wrong. I think what you wrote is more or less right. But it is only one side of the story. I feel obligated to at least mention the other.

Unions force corporation to keep more stable work-force. And there are several good points to it. First, workers are much more professional and experienced. Second, workers are less stressed about instability in their life.

There were positive examples of great performance of union-like work environment in auto production. In great days of Japanese car industry people were employed for life, considered to be part of the "family". In Sweden it is very difficult to fire anybody, but Volvo and Saab are quite reasonable, aren't they?

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

2 words...quality control.

who's checking the work?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Question is why have all the attempts to unionize the non-union Japanese automakers in the USA failed? Someone in the field expand on this please.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I find it interesting that your positive examples of Unions doing good don't include the USA

DW

jbgoodmax

True, my comment was just the tip. Now if we get into some of the "real" reasons why Unions(US) currently do a dis-service to the industry. We could write volumes about it, and there are volumes about it. But ...

The core: Greed across the board. Capitalizem at it best.

F23A4

I dont like it but jbgood's description is a pretty accurate one of unions today.

In the past, unions were noble in their cause: safe work conditions for workers, fair wages and ethical treatment of workers. But now, it's all about getting as much from corporations as possible.

However, union leaders fail to see that if their demands of the corporation result in that corporation going out of business, their workers will be unemployed.

Disclaimer: I am a registered Republican and conservative so you can probably get an indication of my world view based on that.

whitemax99gle

It's very interesting. I go to the University of Delaware and there is a Chrysler plant that makes the Dodge Durango nearby. For 6 months, I've seen workers on strike and they have set up a little tent in front of the factory. Day and night, they would sit there protesting. I guess they got what they wanted from the company or just gave up, since they're not outside anymore.

max...to the ma

unions are greedy, and are a way to protect lazy *** workers, slackers who can't do shi=t

Japanese don't have unions simply because they are treated better, or maybe they seem to hire better workers, who aren't lazy, and therefore have no desire to become a part of a union

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

Japanese workers take pride in their work in all fields, what they do for work is a big part of their life- in the states especially the unionized workers... its just somewhere to go for most of the day, I dont think the passion or pride is there most of the time

I think its a shame, Americans can do amazing things... but lord they have problems putting together quality cars!! look at what happened to Mercedes when they built their ML in Alabama!! or BMW with the Z3!

Honda/Toyota have done a really good job, but honestly me 'knowing' Nissan.... Nissan will be the Japanese Ford hehe

cwerdna

Although I don't work at a company that has unions, I've known of some people who worked at Rockwell where there were unions and it sounded insane. For example, my friend wasn't allowed to move certain equipment unless he called a union guy to come over and do it. He'd have to wait and wait for the guy to come and if he moved it himself and got caught, the union guy would get pay (like 1.5x) for doing nothing. My dad who used to have to work in places where unions were strong also said "yeah, that's the way it is".

That said, I'm quite sure the Japanese auto industry itself has unions. I remember reading about them before and just dug these up for starters:
http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/
http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/1_organization_2.html
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9/b3750044.htm

Back the original subject, I do think the Japanese worker would do a better job. It's too bad that all Maxima production has shifted to the US now.

MaximaDisciple

Maxmann

I disagree strongly with the anti-Tennessee worker being able to build a quality car! I have neighbors that work at the plant and they are all about building a quality product. The problem? The suppliers Nissan has contracted. Poor quality parts will be installed and look, well, poor quality. They need to fix the vendor problem. To many workers dismay, Nissan has tended to turn a blind eye to ill fitting door panels, consoles, etc.

That is not the workers fault.

srm

joaquink

Yeah, you can blame that on the French. All show and no go.

[Cartman voice] French people pi$$ me off! [/Cartman voice]

max...to the ma

ha! so true! im still ****ed that they made me learn french when i was livin in montreal. its a useless language from a country of people i dont get along too well with
at least it lets me say bad things about people to their faces and they stare at u cuz they dont have a clue about what u're sayin'

vqman

I'm a union worker, and I can confirm what he says about union workers. I worked at TWA, and now I work for a "phone company" (won't say which one...)

but union's aren't good if you are a business owner...

-vq

Zeks 97SE

if the 2004 maxima is being built in the USA, or some of them ..does this mean the new 350Z is being built here as well?

here is my two cents, if we Americans put our minds to something I believe we are just as good and have just as much ability to make great products of any kind ... i also believe many americans love automobiles... it is almost an unsaid rule around these parts that if its an american car , then its a lower quality vehicle... honestly i have never owned one ...i would be interested in the corvettes , but who wouldnt... anyways thats all i had to share ... i believe we can make great cars if we put a good group of people together who care, but as for now, i believe the population or general public believe american cars breakdown and are high maintenance ..

but i wonder about the 350z .. i saw one the otherday and it did not even have a tag on it and the guy was driving on a donut .. i thought man ..whats up with that ? what happened to the guys tire ?

cwerdna

ALL 2004+ Maximas (at least for the US market) are built there US now.

I've never heard anything about 350Zs being made here.

My parents have owned many American cars and I have to say, they ARE inferior in terms of reliability. Take a look at the April auto issue of Consumer Reports at your newstand and compare the reliability of most American cars to most Japanese cars. You'll see what I mean.

max...to the ma

i'm not sure. i think the Z and Pathfinder are imported from Japan

Rogo02SE

I'm a Unionized worker and here is my .02
Unions are good when negotiating for contracts.
Many employers will F++K you, when it comes to pay all they care about is their profit. And you're just an expence.
Unions were created for Little guys to work as a team, and belive me if there were no Unions, working conditions for the little guy would suck.
Quality control is where the reliability of a vehicle lies.
Unions have very little to do with it.
US carmakers make their cars not as reliable as Japanese companies becouse our Quality Control is is far from what Japanese is.
Us companies want your car to start breaking right after the warranty expires so you can pump the money back into busineses, they want you to get tired of fixing the car and get a new one.
Japanese companies take pride in good quality products, and Japanese people will not buy a car that's not dependable.

In US it's all about the Profit.

1SICKLEX

Dude pure genuis. There was an AUTOMOIBLE magazine article saying how some companies have squeezed suppliers so tight, that no wonder the car looks 1/2 ****. The named the Nissan Altima, Jaguar S-Type and the Nissan Frontier as examples as well as GM as a whole.

The 1st and 2nd gen Altimas had no problems right? They were not the most reliable but they were not the worst. I just think the workers will be pushed to produce more with equal pay and that never works wellk.