Burton069

iTrader: (2)

http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/22/pf/a...xima/index.htm

gmc74

I wouldn't put too much stock into that article... hmmm car and driver or money magazine. I wouldn't take stock tips from car and driver...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think you could get an SL with the manumatic, did this guy actually drive one?

Grant

Maxima04

I always find it funny when at the beginning of a review a guy says "well looks are subjective, but...." and then spends 1/2 the review beating the crap out of the car's looks. Looks ARE subjective so why waste your time? I think the car looks great and could have spent 1/2 of a review praising it. So what does that prove?

I also test drove the G35 immediately after test driving the Max and found the Max gave away nothing to the Infiniti in refinement or interior looks. In fact, I thought the interior of the Max was nicer (subjective again). I could also have been very happy with the looks of the Infiniti. However, I found the throttle of the Infiniti VERY touchy as well as the brakes. I wasn't overwhelmed with the car and obviously wound up with the Maxima. Each to his own.

And I was thinking the same thing as the guy above about the manumatic. I thought that was only available in the SE. Gee, could this guy have some axe to grind?

motectransam

Here's my counterpoint:

Maxima, more appealing and fun to drive than Accord and more dependable (look at Consumer's Reports and J.D. Power surveys over the past 10 years) and equivalently smooth as a Camry with better OVERALL styling than both plus more roomy than a G35. I think a whole lot of people (such as 4-season region, family-types who want a spicey car) fit the Maxima customer profile.

Nyc2kMax

told u all it was not worth the money.... might as well get a alty or a g35 for that price. Nissan has to get burn to learn, that making your flagship where you can compare your lower end models cars IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS................

i'm out

e_marston

I say the HLSD makes all the difference. I don't have massive torque steer on my Max. That alone makes it better than an Altima. Of course the uninformed writer didn't drove one equiped with it. Still I have to agree with previous posts, why is a this particular magazine writing about cars?

-Ed

Burton069

iTrader: (2)

LSD isn't even an option on the G35 Sedan, coupe has it

gmc74

This isn't going to be popular, and it is gonna get flamed, but that really hasn't stopped me in the past, so why should it now

What is with all the haters? Man, if you don't like it, then you don't like it. I surely wouldn't point to a car review in Money magazine as a "told you all it was not worth the money". If that idiot that wrote the review was talking about an investment, it may mean something. But he isn't, well, it isn't an investment for smart people...

I don't know if it is just bitterness because people bought theirs a couple years before the better ones came out, or if it is 'cause they can't afford them, or just plain jealousy... but I can tell you that it is sad.

How about we start a section called "Come here to whine about the car that you either hate or can't afford"



Let the flames begin.

Maxima04

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nyc2kMax
told u all it was not worth the money.... might as well get a alty or a g35 for that price. Nissan has to get burn to learn, that making your flagship where you can compare your lower end models cars IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS................

i'm out [/QUOTE

Somehow your agreement with the author of a car review for Money Magazine does not make the findings fact. "I told you so" is a bit absurd when this "review" is your basis for validation.

coffeeshark

Calling the rear leather buckets "another gimmick masquerading as an idea" is absurd to me. This is a feature i HAD to have, i admit it. My friends who have to ride in the back love it, too.

Not sure how it is a gimmick - gimmicks are intended to overshadow shortcomings, which the 04Max doesn't have, in my book. Giving the rear passengers comfortable, leather, heated bucket seats, with some climate controls, seems like a great idea to me. I'd call the heated steering wheel a gimmick, not seating.

And the 'profile looks like a Neon' is crap, too - you've really got to have poor eyesight to confuse the two cars, even in profile.

Also, most of us don't really punch it off the starting line, do we , and torque steer really isn't an issue. Highway acceleration (60-80) is smooth and responsive.

So, overall, the Money guy doesn't like the styling, and the torque steer when he punches it. Gee. How about Car and Driver "Thus, with more power, more style, more colors, and more variation, Nissan clearly hopes the Maxima will not only pick up where its worthy predecessor left off but also bring more believers into the fold. Without the torque steer, it would have been a pushover."

Full Car and Driver Review

Anyway, I really don't care about ratings, though I do read all the reviews - I like to drive a car for myself and make up my own mind. How about you?

gmc74

I have to agree. I don’t base what movies I will see on movie reviews, and those only cost $8. Why would I base my opinion on a $30K car on a review? I need to make those decisions on my own. The heated steering wheel is a waste in my opinion, but there are dumb things on every car.

dobiegillis

I don't see what is wrong with criticizing the new version of a car we all obviously care a lot about. Its really the same as praising it. And just because someone criticizes the car doesn't mean they are jealous that you have one or can't afford it. I can certainly afford the '04, but I choose not to own one because I don't like the styling, which is highly important to me. And yes, I agree that the new max is much better than the Accord or Camry but since I wouldn't even CONSIDER buying either of those vehicles that is irrelevant to me.

If this isn't a forum to discuss our opinions about the 6th gen, what is it? The reality is that the car business is highly competitive and there are many differing opinions on every vehicle. The writer of this article is simply saying things you don't agree with or don't like to hear, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve posting here IMHO.

PrinzII

iTrader: (2)

I'll say it like this. The only thing I would do to a 6th Gen is put a mesh grille on it to get rid of the dual grille look. Other than that, I actually like it.

gmc74

There is a difference between making informed comments about a car, and what the author of the article wrote. If I had to guess, I would guess that he drove one of the cars, and made up the other. His information doesn't make sense. He had a few good points, but that was overshadowed by his ignorance.

As for the comments on this site, I have been here for only a couple of days and the first thing I noticed was a hatred by certain individuals to this car. Not a regular, I don't like this or that, but an all out hatred of the vehicle and seemingly those that have purchased it. It is just an observation from the outside looking in, correct or not, as you stated this is a place for opinions.

Grant

marmadogg

Of course you think the heated steering wheel is a waste because you live in Arizona. No kidding!

I live in the northeast and I drove a 530i this winter that had a heated steering wheel and heated seats while my 330i was being serviced. It was awesome to have warm hands without wearing gloves (I hate wearing gloves when I drive) while it is 12 degrees Fahrenheit outside with a wind-chill of minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

It is all about perspective. You should know better!

Maxima04

Boy, aint that the truth! I tried it the other day (in N.Y.) while the morning temp was about 40. It was REALLY nice and heated up very quickly, so I can imagine how nice this will be in the dead of winter.

BTW, I brought mine in for service to align the hood better and found the car became much quieter on the road afterwards. Apparently the misalignment of the hood was causing some air turbulence that created noise at speeds above 65. You wouldn't think this would affect the overall noise level, but it sure did. That was about the only complaint I had about the car (noise at speeds above 65). I remember someone posting that his 04 Max was about as quiet as his Lexus LS400. I can now believe that.

gmc74

Just to set the record straight, it does get cold in Arizona too. The temps at night dip into the 30s and sometimes below freezing (brrr) in Phoenix. Northern Arizona is very much like New England, weather wise. With that said, the need for these items, although greatly reduced, still exists in Arizona. I don’t really have a need for them, but others may.

I lived in Connecticut for almost 24 years, so I know what cold winters are like. I probably would have used the heated seats and wheel there… now I want cooled seats

1SICKLEX

I think they had an Article on the new Acura TSX and they pretty much said the same thing about it. I tend to agree. After driving the car, this is no Maxima. Road and Track said similar things as well:
Great family car
Average Sports Sedan
Below AVerage 4-door Sports Car.

The Maxima is like an Accord/Camry with more power now. No more sweet handling for a FWD car. The Max I tested was 33k and they are NUTS at this price. It's only strong agument is more space. Otherwise
Acura TL-S
BMW 330
Lexus IS 300
Audi A4
Infiniti G35
Volvo S70
Caddy CTS

All get my vote first.

gmc74

You jumped to another class though. Most of those cars are more expensive, and the ones that aren’t more expensive don’t compare. The Acura TL Type S feels the same power wise and handling wise (I think I test drove it 6 or 7 times, once for about 60 miles). The acura had less punch, and less torque steer. The two main differences are that the Acura has a better warranty (which is a plus) and it looks like an accord, very plain jane (which is a minus).

Comparing it to a 330 is not fair, the 330 (equally equipped) will cost $10K more. The CTS is under powered and the G35 is … well, see my other thread. I haven’t driven the Audi, Lexus or Volvo, but I know the price is closer to the BMW than it is to the 30K mark.

Apples to Oranges on almost all of these, except the Acura. That is a close comparison.

coffeeshark

I obviously don't have anything to do at work today, so...

I haven't driven the Cadillac or the Volvo, but the others I have looked at.

The A4 is a great little car (LITTLE), my wife wanted one, so we drove it. To equip it like the Maxima, runs about $37k MSRP, with the 3.0 liter and all the amenities. Plus it's tiny, really. A cute girl car

The Acura TL-S is right in the mix, with a sweet V6 at right around $34k, everything standard. (Nav system is $2k extra). There's no manual, though, for the shift lovers. Exterior styling is a little Accordish for me.

The BMW 330 will outhandle the Maxima, for sure, but will cost about $4k more with optional equipment to match. Not as roomy (width), not quite as powerful.

The Lexus hits $36k with matching equipment, and is another tight fit. The engine isn't up to par, and for some reason doesn't get the fuel economy, either. This, in my opinion, is a compact.

The G35 is similar, but definitely smaller, just doesn't feel as comfortable - a little less room in the back seat, too, especially headroom. Styling is a little smoother. You'll still pay $34k. If you don't have 2 kids and can get the coupe, go for it, it's easily the sweetest on the market, for the price. I don't think the sedan is anything outstanding.

I like the Volvo S60 styling, and the fact that's it's all wheel drive. The engine doesn't get over 200hp until you get the turbo T5, which is about $34k. The interior is kinda weak, though.

The CTS is different, but not any more so than the Maxima. $35k, the 220hp V6 gets a slightly lower MPG. Rear space isn't the best.

Just my 2 cents (or maybe about 25 cents, i guess). My rebuttal in justifying my maxima purchase.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Guys lets just face it the 04 isnot going to appeal to everyone just has the 5th gen and 4th gen doesnt. People are going to criticize it just like they still critisize the 5th gens and 4th gens, if you purchased the car you like it and it is no need to get upset because someone else doesnt. I dont get upset when someone says that they dont care for my 350 or my 03 Max its just an opinion and I am not going to justify my reasoning for buying either to no one. I have yet to see a vehicle that appeals to everyone, lets all just get along!

gmc74

I am not upset that others criticize the looks, or our decisions to buy. I just find it funny when they compare it to cars that are just not the same (or even close). And that review was just awful.

That being said, I agree with you about not pleasing everyone.

My max pleases me! I am sure my wife will like it if I ever let her drive it

1SICKLEX

You made my point. The Maxima is NOW competing with these cars because of it's price. And besides Nissan fans, people will not buy a Max over these cars. The 30k mark makes many people think twice about a "badge" (Luxury). The Max does have many of it's features (NAV, Bose etc) and different ones (the 2 sunroofs, 2 rear seats etc)but I don't think many people will pay 33-35k for a Max when they can have a luxury marque.

Weird, but SIZE and SPACE is now the Maxima's advantage against these cars.

e_marston

You've made your opinion abundantly clear on several threads and that is fine. Now that you have why not return to your own gen's forum?

I do have to say though that the car sells with pretty much everything except navi or elite at around $30k. With them you can say maybe 31-33k. Most don't pay anywhere near MSRP. I didn't.

Finally, many people obviously are buying this car or there wouldn't be much of a forum here. I along with many others chose the 6th Gen over those other models. So I don't really see a point behind your statement there.

-Ed

JAKE02

I agree. The Max has always been a decent value, but that value has taken a nose dive. Dealers better be dealing real well on the new Max because if they expect to get anywhere close to 33-35k for a NISSAN i will trade my 2K2 to an Acura (hope the new TLS has a maual trans) or an Infiniti.......or a Lexus......etc. Come on Nissan.......you cheapen the dash and door panels on the 2K4 Max and expect that much more cash? The plastic in the interior looks much cheaper than what is in my 2K2 sorry dont mean to flame just stating my opinion

AlabasterFinch

Agreed-We had 33 straight days of temps below 32F in Jan/Feb. It's like holding onto ice cubes. Also agreed-near useless below the 35th parallel.

gmc74

I was not a fan before last week. I tested almost all of these cars (see the G35 vs Maxima thread) and I chose the Maxima. If the Maxima was in the same price class as the 330Ci, I would have bought the BMW. But they are not in the same class at all.

I looked these cars up on Edmunds, moderately equiped (leather, heated seats, cd player/changer, 18" wheels where available)-

Maxima SE - 31,070
Acura TL S - 31,830
Lexus IS300- 33,295
Infin. G35 - 34,345
Volvo S60 - 35,510
Audi A4 - 36,225
Cadilac CTS- 36,470
BMW 330Ci - 43,480

I can see how the Max, Acura, Lexus, and G35 could be considered in the same price class, but the others are not. And out of those 4, only the acura has the same size and features, the others are smaller cars.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Why are you looking to trade in a year old 2002?

JAKE02

I'm not saying I am going to trade tomorrow just keeping my options open. I have buyers remorse in not getting my Max loaded, etc. My point of my response was that Nissan is playing in the entry luxury area of cars with the new MAX and we all know Nissan isnt entry luxury....... I dont care how nice they make the Max their dealer service and experience will remind everyone of that

dobiegillis

Now I find this discussion interesting. I see how you can compare the Max to all those other cars listed based on features/options/engine, but realistically the Nissan brand doesn't hold the cachet as the rest, that's why it is sometimes pitted against the Accord and Camry in reviews. All those other brands are touted as "luxury" brands, which no matter what your specific opinion is, the general public and the "experts" would probably agree. You're right that Nissan is trying to break the Maxima out of that bland mold though and despite my criticisms I do think the new 6th gen is a good attempt to do so (like no more GXE). Really it seems like they are trying to bridge the gap between plain jane Accord and Camry land and the upscale brands. I do think the worst thing they could have ever done was to sell so many Maximas into rental fleets. That is killing resale value. I wonder how many '04 Maxima's Hertz has ordered this year. That alone would almost warrant comparing the Max to a Taurus.

I have not driven a number of the cars listed, but I do think it is somewhat a stretch to compare this new HUGE max with some of these models. All of them are a good bit smaller in size, even the TL is a tad smaller, and they're all generally more expensive. And realistically the A4, S60 and definitely the BMW are much more expensive comparably equipped. Oh and personally I really like the TL's styling. It doesn't remind me of an Accord at all, and I really hate Accord styling. I'm going to look at an '02 TL-S today, but I'd definitely add a spoiler and factory body kit if I buy it.

gmc74

I like to look at it as more of a high end, low end car Kind of like the best of the lower class, rather than the low of the higher class

Jaeger

I frankly don't understand all the bashing of this review and its author simply because you don't share (or like) his opinion. So what if he doesn't write for a car magazine - how many of us do? Is his opinion any less valid than any of ours? And what's with criticizing the guy for subjectivity - that's the whole point of a car review. Without subjective input any car review is no more than a cold recitation of statistics.

Enough about him - on to the car. The new Max has been the most anticipated new car (for me personally) in a very long time. I had all but decided I would get one to replace my 5sp. AE the moment it came out. Since most of its competitors were already available I drove them all first (it amazing how many truly great cars are out there). Then I drove the 2k4 Max. I was... not disappointed so much as underwhelmed. Maybe my expectations were too high. Maybe my anticipation was too great. Whatever the cause, I didn't get nearly as many grins from the Maxima as I did from many of its competitors. Heck, I couldn't say that I liked it a whole lot better than my current Max.

One of the main problems for me was size - this car looked and felt a whole lot bigger than my AE, which I found to be absolutely as much car as I need size-wise. I need a vehicle that can hold 4 adults in comfort. Any more is just... more. Whenever I looked in the rear-view mirror of the 2K4 I could scarcely believe how much car was following me around. I can't help but feel that the Max is just getting too big for the sake of a specious belief that bigger is better. Nope - bigger is just bigger. You do ultimately reach a point where, on size alone, you start to loose sport-sedan credibility regardless of engine and chassis specifications. The BMW M5 is a sport sedan. The BMW 750iL is not.

Apart from size, two other factors rubbed me the wrong way. The first is ride quality. This is a hard-rider, particualrly on the cold monring of my test drive. And yes, cold mornings are very much part of my life. Other vehicles seem to deliver equal or better handling without such a stiff penalty in ride quality. The other: torque steer. It's present on my Max, it's worse on the 2K3 with the 3.5L motor, and it feels worse yet on the 2K4. I don't believe my test vehicle had the HLSD, but I find it pretty inexcusable for Nissan to let any vehicle bearing their flagship marque behave so badly. All that power from that oh-so-sweet motor is sorely misdirected as the vehicle fights to go anywhere but where you are pointing it. It's like trying to walk a full-grown untrained and ill-tempered Rottweiler: you will ultimately get to where you were going but you won't have had much fun on the way.

I haven't written this vehicle off yet. I do want to go for a second extended drive and see if I feel the same becuase there is much that I do like (exterior styling (except the front grille); interior styling; engine POWER; luxury features). But my driving needs are simply defined: 4 doors, stick shift, enough room for 4 adults and a high fun-to-drive quotient. The 2k4 Max should have been a lot easier to love.

Cheers,

Jaeger

PS - three vehicles that I liked a whole lot better than I thought I would, even though they were a bit on the small side: Audi A4 1.8t, Mazda 6, Acura TSX. Current front-runner: Infiniti G35.

gmc74

The Accord is ringing in at about 26,200 and the Camry at 29,500.

They are in the range (price wise) of the Maxima, but not in the same class as far as power, handling, and looks.

Grant

coffeeshark

So, the reviewer can share his opinion of the car with millions of readers, but we can't share our opinion of the review with the 10s of readers here? Sure we can. It's not a question of sharing his opinion. We're just sharing ours. And when you publish any type of opinionated writing, others will disagree. Such is a bulletin board, anyway. We're not calling him names, just disagreeing. And yes, my opinion IS more valid to me, anyway.

That said, Jaeger, have to agree with a lot of your post on the car itself. I WANTED a bigger car, though, comfortable, and not necessarily a sports sedan - i wanted a powerful, comfortable sedan, and that's what i got. If you want a real sport sedan, buy the BMW 330 or even the G35. The Mazda6 moves right along, but is really on the low end. The A4 1.8t, I would think, wouldn't be powerful enough for you.

gmc74

"Nissan Altima and brilliant Infiniti G35."

They aren’t in the same class, they are much smaller inside.


"And perhaps not surprisingly for a model that's trying to straddle the fence between the affordable Altima and luxury G35, it ends up with the same indistinct, please-everyone personality as the previous Maxima."

He is missing the point here. It is trying to bridge the gap between the Accord and the 330Ci more than the Altima and G35.


Here is my biggest issue -
One more quibble: In the automatic SL, rocking the shift lever into manumatic mode produced a jarring metallic whonk as the lever butted into the gate.

He drove an SL with a manumatic???

I drove both an SE model (base price $26,950), with a six-speed manual transmission; and the uplevel SL (base price $28,900) with a four-speed automatic.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I thought you could only get the manumatic with the SE? If this guy only drove an SL auto and SE manual, how does he know anything about the manumatic???

Someone please clarify this for me? If I am right, and this guy didn't drive a manumatic at all, how can you take anything he says seriously?

Grant

/me is gonna email him

gmc74

Here is the email I sent, I will let you know if he responds.

Hi Lawrence,
I was reading your review of the 2004 Nissan Maxima and I had a couple of questions for you. In the article you wrote the following “I drove both an SE model (base price $26,950), with a six-speed manual transmission; and the uplevel SL (base price $28,900) with a four-speed automatic.” You also stated “One more quibble: In the automatic SL, rocking the shift lever into manumatic mode produced a jarring metallic whonk as the lever butted into the gate.”

Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t the manumatic only available on the 5 speed SE? If that is the case, how do you know that moving “the shift lever into manumatic more produced a jarring metallic whonk”?

I am very interested in your response to this. It sounds to me that you wrote an article about a car you didn’t drive, but I will give you a chance to respond before I pass judgement.

Thanks

Grant

perrymaxima

Writers do make mistakes I bet this guy drove a manual SE and an Auto SE because as stated the SL doesn't have a manumatic transmission so he made a mistake when he stated he drove a SE and SL.

As far as the class of car the 6th gen Maxima is in well... It's in what ever class you want it to be in. The car has a broad range of features so equip it as much as you like and love it for what it is...just a car!

I do have grips about some of the features the Maxima is lacking as someone else stated I would not pay 30K+ for a car that didn't include roadside asistance, 4 year warranty and luxury customer service... What that means to me is if I want a 2004 Maxima I would offer the dealer 27-29K and if he doesn't want my business either wait a couple months or go someplace that can suite me.

There is a chance though that Infiniti will offer a midsize luxury car alia Teana that will probably be in the same price range as a loaded Maxima so if I want Luxury I will get a Infiniti.

No need to flame each other we all have our opinions and if you don't like my opinion so what you can't delete it! We all have at least 1 thing in common... attraction to the Maxima image.

gmc74

And sometimes they read things in other magazines and form opinions based on them, and add items that they don't know first hand to be true, as if they did.

It could be either way, but he was quite opinionated (especially when he stated that the SE handling was better) for someone that can't tell what car he is in.

Jaeger

Hey coffeeshark,

I wasn't objecting to people expressing a different opinion, or even stating as strongly as possible that they disagree with everything the reviewer wrote. What I did have a problem with was the suggestion by some that the writer had some hidden agenda, or axe to grind (simply no evidence of that) or that his opinion was inherently less valid because he did not write for a car magazine. Yeah, he made a mistake on the technical specifications re. which transmission is available with which model. Could have been a typo, or he could have been misinformed. God knows I make bigger mistakes than that in the course of an average week.

And yes, our own opinions matter more to each of us than anyone else's and that is as it should be. After all, we make the payments .

Cheers,

Jaeger

Edited to add:

The Audi 1.8t was a surprise. The numbers suggested that it would underpowered, but it didn't feel that way. Not the kind of endless rush of powere that you get with Nissan's 3.5 to be sure, but it never felt weak. And there's more grip in that chassis than I will ever exceed. I'm starting to agree wit their hype about the advantages of 4 wheel drive in the dry as well as the wet/snow.

1SICKLEX

Most all new cars sell well when introduced to the market. It's a "NEW" car and people like new cars.

It's not really my statement. Every magazine I have read seems to say the same things. This new Maxima should be called the MAXIMA ARMADA. Then they should bring out the real Maxima.