Frank Fontaine

circle to be so massive? It's 44'. That means the circle is 11' larger than a volvo 240, and 4' larger than a Lincoln LS.

Interesting that in Consumer Reports the 6th gen ranked 8th in performance. What was also interesting was the 330i and A4 got semi black circles for reliability (below avg.). They sure praise Lexus, Toyota, and Honda to the high heavens!

Looks like torque steer will never be cured on the Max until it goes to RWD (well it probably wouldn't).

Newman

iTrader: (3)

combine the already terrible turning radius of recent maximas with a larger body and 18 inch wheels and you have an even more disgusting turning radius. its kind of sad really. seems like all the SUVs ive ever driven have a tighter radius than my car.

Frank Fontaine

Guess you wont be finding any 6th gens in Europe, or it's gonna be tough to navigate on the roads there. 44' is something you'd expect from an S600 stretch limo! Very unbelievable. At least it has a cool Ion-like rear deck!

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I just solve my steering problem by using my Super HICAS bar between the front seats.

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

yea i can imagine a bigger max only createst larger torque steer...well, time to get some handling mods out for these bad boys...they actually do wonders.

I was driving in my friends 99 4 door honda accord (stock) and as he takes those turns when exiting and entering highways, even going kind of slow (25 or so) u feel like u about to flip over, but when driving it feels real nice and makes u feel like u going slower than u actually are...on my car, you feel like u always going fast cause u feel so many bumps but it feels good to take those exits at 40+ and just stick to the road...big difference

gmc74

yep, it will stay this way as long as it is front wheel drive with those big wheels.

coffeeshark

crap, all those u-turns i do every day, i'll never make it around...oh, yeah, that's right, u-turns are a rarity for me. As for driving in Europe, u-turns are mostly illegal (where I drove in Germany for a few years). Half the time you couldn't even make a left turn there.

True, Europeans drive smaller cars, b/c parking is so limited and the streets are narrow. But that doesn't exclude long, big cars, Mercedes are everywhere over there.

Ooh, another Ion comparison. that's new.

JAKE02

What caused it? Continued poor engineering if you ask me, as it it pitiful on the 5th gen as well. Some on here will say it is more difficult to fix than we must know, but come on, that big of turning radius is pathetic.......other car manufacturers fix it.....why cant Nissan make it at least better.....and if this issue doesnt bother you...(it didnt make me not purchase the car, blah blah,)-then dont respond......

gmc74

so you want a one sided conversation? only people that are ****ed about it?

How do you solve the issue?

I see 4 possible options.

1) move the wheels to the corners like a dodge.
2) smaller engine so it has more room in the compartment
3) RWD - the engine is no longer sideways
4) widen the car
5) make the wheels smaller

1) ok, I hate the cab forward styling of dodge, so for me #1 is out
2) I wouldn't buy this car if the engine was smaller, so 2 is out
3) RWD would be great, but don't count on it... that is about all the G35 has over the Max
4) widen the car? I hear people complain that it is too wide already
5) it is the most feasable option, but I would rather deal with the poor turning radius

Can you come up with a better way? Let's be realistic, we have to take some bad with the good. Certain benefits are going to have side effects.

04EliteSE

I don't know about you guys, but when I go car shopping, the last thing on my mind is turning radius...

JAKE02

No I cant come up with a better way.....I'm not an engineer. It is difficult for me to believe Nissan couldnt have improved the turning radius after the pathetic 5th gen. turning radius, I guess some things "bug" some people more than others.

gmc74

I do think that it was low on the priority list, and if they really wanted to improve it, they could. That being said, there would have been a cost, and I think that cost would out weigh the benefit.

The turning radius is quite annoying, when pulling a U turn on a divided road the other side better have 3 lanes

gmc74

I do think that it was low on the priority list, and if they really wanted to improve it, they could. That being said, there would have been a cost, and I think that cost would out weigh the benefit.

The turning radius is quite annoying, when pulling a U turn on a divided road the other side better have 3 lanes

marmadogg

The Acura TSX has a 40' turning radius and it is much smaller than the 2004 Maxima.

Front wheel drive + power + large wheels = large turning radius

I do not have an engineering explanation for this but the Acura TL and CL have this problem as well.

Oh well...

gmc74

I have an engineering explanation, two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time... shrink the engine or shrink the tires...

marmadogg

Gee...you must be an engineer.

JAKE02

No dog he is just really really smart........EVERYONE HERE KNOWS THAT.........at least they should by now.........

gmc74

it has become glaringly apparent that I am smarter than you, but then again at least you are smart enough to figure that out.

JAKE02

as much hot air as you blow i bet you have one strong set of lungs.......

jacksprat01

Well, I just did a uturn yesterday in the same spot that I have many times in the past with my 300m (peice of $hit that I traded in.) Didn't feel much different. Seems that front drive sports sedans with fat tires all suck for turning radius but that's the nature of the beast.

raiste

It's not even in the same class but the BMW M5 has a turning radius of ~38' and is approx the same in all dimensions as the 2003/2004 Maxima.

JAKE02

Hmm I wasnt aware all sedans (FWD) with 17+ wheels have this problem, guess I better give Nissan a break on this.

marmadogg

I could buy 2 loaded 04 Maximas and spend a week in Aruba for the price of a M5.

The 530i is much slower and it still costs 15K+ more than a comparably equipped 04 Maxima SE. The 545i is faster but costs much more than 20K+ more.

At least compare a 530i to the 04 Maxima as the 530i costs almost half what a M5 costs. The 04 Maxima is much faster than a 530i so there is not comparison.

Jaeger

Um... I may be wrong... but I think he was comaparing the turning radius of two similarly-sized cars, not attempting to equate them on a price / performance scale. The comparison to the 5-series BMW does raise an interesting point - my experience has been that a rwd car will have a smalller turning radius that a similarly-sized fwd car. I don't have an engineering explanation for this, but I would guess it has something to do with the additional drivetrain hardware of the fwd car.

All this moaning and groaning about the gigantic turning radius has me pining for my old '91 240 SX with Super HICAS - that d@mn thing would turn around in a phone booth!

Cheers,

Jaeger

Newman

iTrader: (3)

this is just a hypothesis but....

have you all noticed that on some cars and trucks when you turn the wheels all the way left or right the wheels actually start to "lean" a little bit. like, when maximas wheels are all the way to one side the wheels are perfectly perpendicular to the gound...|---|

some cars have wheels that "lean" and they are at an angle... /---/

the cars and trucks that i have noticed that have the "lean" have all been RWD.

i am thinking that this "lean" is most definitely the reason for the reduced turning radius on larger cars. and i am also thinking that FWD cars do not have this feature because of issues stemming from the fact that the car is in fact FWD. maybe it is dangerous to have the driving wheels "lean" like that (especially if the wheel is turned at a semi-high rate of speed)

so, thats why i think the maxima has a fairly poor turning radius where as some SUVs, and larger RWD sedans seem to have a superious turning radius even though they may be larger than the maxima.

gmc74

I think the issue really is as simple as this-

FWD has a sideways engine, so instead of the length being front to back, it is now side to side. This causes there to be more space in front and behind the engine instead of on the sides. Because of this the wheel wells are smaller and thus there is less room for the tires to turn, resulting in a smaller turning radius.

RWD the engine is sitting with the length going from front to back, and this allows for more room on the sides, allowing the wheel wells to be deeper, and that allows the tires more room to turn.

The real question is why does the BMW take so much space to turn, it has an inline 6 that is quite narrow... odd.

marmadogg

The 3-series with the inline six has a turning radius of 34.4'.

Don't forget the 5-series has a longer wheelbase and is built around the 4.5 liter V8 which is a wider engine. They throw the 2.5 and 3.0 liter inline sixes in the 5-series to sell more cars. Thats what my service manager told me when I had the 330i.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I don't know about that, i test drove the TSX quite extensively and i swear the turning radius on that is much smaller than on my Maxima.

marmadogg

That is the value I got from edmunds.com. Find a different (reputable) source that shows a different turning radius for the TSX and I will believe you.

Why would you refute something without any proof?

marmadogg

Car and Drive lists a 40' turing radius as well

Sounds like Mike does not know what he is talking about.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I did not say you were wrong, all i said was that the turning radius on the TSX was definitely better than on my Maxima.

gmc74

it may feel smaller because the car is smaller... but it isn't.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Either that or it may have something to do with the number of turns needed for the steering wheel to lock L-R.

lightonthehill

Having looked under an '04 (while on a rack), the problem is just as gmc74 put it. Big engines matched with big tire/wheel combos on a front-wheel drive vehicle are not conducive to tight turning.

The sacrifice of good turning radius is somewhat bothersome, but I would hate to give up the things that cause it. I do hope Nissan does find a way to lessen the problem, but they may let it go until the AWD version arrives.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I'm sure there's a way around it, If i'm not mistaken the Murano has a 38ft. turning radius. And it uses the same engine as the Max/Altima having similar if not bigger tires.

marmadogg

SUVs take advantage of greater suspension travel.

gmc74

If there was a way around it, surely one of the dozens of car manufacturers would have come up with a suitable solution by now. The fact that they haven't is a pretty good indication of the size of the problem.

On the flip side, it is pretty much a non issue in daily driving.

Frank Fontaine

Non issue? Not if you live or work in a city. Parallel parking and leaving your car with a valet in a tight garage, you want the car to work with them, not against. They pack the cars in like sardines and move them around several times a day.

44' is outrageous, really. A new V8 Toyota 4Runner has a 36.7' turning radius (AWD ie full-time 4wd). I believe it has to do with design. Saying it's big rims is a weak explanation imho, because a 4Runner has 265's standard no matter which model, that's another 20mm wider than any Maxima.

gmc74

You are right, 44' is outrageous... luckily it is only 40'.

Check the engine on the 4Runner, it is not transverse mounted(sideways), which is the cause of the problem. Engines are longer than they are wide, if you turn it sideways it takes up the space that the tires need when turning.

Here are the specs (in feet) of some comparable cars that are all FWD-

G35 Coupe - 37.4
G35 Sedan - 36.0
Camry (V6) - 36.7
Accord (V6) - 36.1
Impala - 38.0
Mazda 6 - 38.7
Altima (V6) - 38.7
03 TL Type S - 40.0
03 Max - 40.0
04 Max - 40.0

No offense to anyone, but I am guessing the engineers at some of the best car companies in the world are going to do a bit better at this than we are. If they can't seem to solve this issue, then maybe it is a bit more than a design problem.

Jaeger

These two are rwd, but generally I do take your point. I disagree somewhat with the assertion that a large turning radius is pretty much a non-issue in daily driving. There are more than a few underground parking garages in downtown Toronto that require some pretty tight turns, with the threat of metal scraping against a concrete pillar as the penalty for a miscue.

As someone said earlier, though, I wouldn't trade away the big motor and big wheels for a smaller turning radius.

Cheers,

Roger