Jaeger

It was reported on another site that the October issue of Automobile magazine presents an 12-car sport-sedan comparison, results as follows:

1. Acura TSX
2. BMW 325i
3. Infiniti G35
4. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
5. Mazda 6s
6. Subaru Impreza WRX
7. Lexus IS300
8. Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
9. Saab 9-3 Linear
10. Mercedes-Benz C230K Sport
11. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Comp G
12. Nissan Maxima SE

I have not seen the magazine but for anyone who has could you PLEASE tell me what the heck they hated so much about the Max and how it could POSSIBLY finish behind the POS Pontiac? I'd really like to know what they were thinking and the mag is not yet out in my neck of the woods.

Jaeger

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I'm not surprised at all to see the results, as much as i love Maxima's - the 6th gen has become more of a highway cruiser than a sport sedan. From what i've seen on the Comp G, they seem to handle a lot better than the 6th gen.

SteVTEC

Most of those cars are much smaller and more nimble, and most are RWD or AWD, not FWD. I don't even know why the Maxima and GTP were included.

They're comparing it to the WRX and EVO for crying out loud.

The Maxima has not been a true "sports sedan" since the 3rd Gen, BTW. The 4th gen and 5th Gens were "sporty", but not really "sports sedans" ala BMW 3-series style. I still don't know where the 6th Gen fits.

vandy786

I must agree that it is a very odd comparison for a magazine to conduct. However, it's worthwhile to point out that although most of the cars are RWD or AWD, the car that came out on top is FWD just like the Maxima. I would be interested in seeing a full score card on each car though before making any judgements.

BluFlame

iTrader: (2)

mazda6/IS300/Saab/GTP/TSX are all FWD and all did better than Max.
also take note: G35 3rd place.

04EliteSE

Heh, I guess Automobile Magazine has no testers that are 6'3 210. Out of all those cars, the Maxima and the Grand ***** were the only two I felt comfortable in. And I sure as hell wasn't going to get a Pontiac! I've driven most of those other cars, or sat in them at showrooms, and they are way too cramped for me. I haven't been in the Saab, and I intend to keep it that way.

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Because Nissan markets the Maxima SE as a Sports Sedan thats why it was included as well as the GTP.

Blue04SEinIL

I agree. If you want a nimble little sports car...look elsewhere. I don't consider any of these cars competitors to the Max except for maybe the Grand Prix which finished right next to the Max. A good comparison for the Max would be cars like the Acura TL, Chrysler 300M, and Pontiac Bonneville.

95emeraldgxe

acura TSX did better than a 325? heh, sounds like the reviewers are civic drivers

SteVTEC

The IS300 is RWD, and all of those cars (except for the GTP) are significantly smaller than the Maxima.

spauldingsmails

If Automobile Magazine (or any highly respected auto mag) wants to include the Maxima in a 12 car sport sedan contest, that's a very, very good thing! It's a compliment to be compared to other good sedans. Certainly the last place finish, however, is terrible. This is more evidence Nissan should have either dropped the Max from it's lineup and made the already popular 3.5 V6 Altima nicer; *or* continued to make the Maxima in Japan, adding the independent suspension, and using more of the 5th gen styling as a starting point.

rbloedow

I'm 6'2 and 270lbs and I've sat in the TSX, 6, Maxima, and G35 and felt totally comfortable in all of them.

4drsleeper

I was seriously considering the TSX before I bought the Maxima. Then I drove the TSX and it's even close in comparison. It looks more like they are comparing the most commonly bought car's between $25K - $35K...that's the only thing these cars have in common. I was seriously considering the TSX before I bought the Maxima but after driving it I was not impressed at all. The car is under powered @ 3200lbs and had bad body roll in the corners. I'm still absolutely shocked that the Evo has once again beat the WRX!!!
I can't wait to read the article, this listing is pathetic.

nissan_man

This is just Automible Mag's way of trying to give attention to themselves. It's blantly obvious that the comparison is bogus. They figure that if they could get the jaw dropping reaction most of us are having, then that would incline us to buy their pathetic articles.

The best response to all of this would be to nod our heads ( agree with the stupid) so to speak, and not give them anymore attention than that. It's their way of throwing a tantrum!

Jaeger

Huh? They ranked the Max last just to get a rise out of some Nissan enthusiats? I don't agree with their rankings, but I can hardly imagine we hold that kind of editorial sway. As to the comparison being bogus, that may or may not be. That's why I'm hoping some subscriber who gets the mag early will tell us the basis for the ranking.

Cheers,

Jaeger

bluemaxx

Can you provide a link? I can't find that article on their web site. I do find reviews, just not a comparison article.

SteVTEC

Here is what the 2004 Maxima should probably be compared with:

- Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
- New Acura TL
- Passat W8 4Motion
- Toyota Avalon

All of these are full-sized FWD or AWD sedans priced in the upper-20 to low/mid-30k range. The Acura has the "luxury" badge, but Honda does not have an equivalent full-sized flagship sedan, so I think the TL is more relevant than the new Accord V6, but who knows. JMO


I just don't understand the relevance of comparing a Maxima with an EVO and G35 type cars.

Jaeger

It's not on their web-site yet (I also checked) - usually the web site lags a bit behind the print version of the magazine by a few days or more. As I said, the October issue isn't on the news stands yet in my neck of the woods. I'm guessing that subscribers get their hands on it first. Of course, until I get to read the d@mn thing, I'm guessing at pretty much everything.

Jaeger

gtr_rider

iTrader: (50)

Thats the same thing I thought as soon as I saw the list.

pynokio25

Why let this sway your judgement. Buy the car that "YOU" like, not what the coparison says. There will always be one car that does one thing better than the other. It all has to do with what fits your taste.

gmc74

I was thinking the same thing, seems like an odd comparison to me. I also agree with the size issue, the other cars are much smaller than the max and GP, strange comparison to say the least.

dbvettez06

I have driven a few of these cars and totally disagree with half that list ...The Saab and Subaru give me a break

rbloedow

Umm, I would certainly hope that the EVO beat the WRX. Now, if they had tested the WRX STi, then it'd be a little different.

Maxima04

Umm, the new Maxima DOES have all independent suspension and I for one prefer the 6th gen styling.

4drsleeper

Yup, good catch. I was referring to the STi. I believe it was Sport Compact that tested them head-to-head and gave the EVO the blue ribbon. That's absolute crap if you ask me, just my opinion though.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

The EVO handles much better than the STi and is just about as fast o-60 and in the 1/4 (only off by .1-.2 seconds in both catagories). They both have corners cut to get them in the $34K and under range, though...

1SICKLEX

They did not do the damn comparison on size. They did it on what the car is SUPPOSED to be, a sports sedan. As all other magazines have stated, it is not. Marketing does not make the car.

I do not agree with the rankings either. I canceled my Automobile subscription a while ago cause they are idiots, the writers are idiots, the pics are average etc.

The only articles I do like in there are their long-term tests, they really **** on the cars that **** on them. The Jag X-type and Q45 come to mind.

04blackse

how accurate can that be, come on a mazda 6 is killin the c230k

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Its accurate to them because thats what their results were, if any of the other mags would have tested them with results not favoring the Max we would be saying the same thing. We all know the real truth!

2maxgarage

I guess it comes down to preference:

I wouldn't buy a 4 cylinder sedan again, which eliminates six off the list.

I'm not big on domestics, off goes the Pontiac

The Lexus is too small, as is the Mazda 6, I'm concerned about BMW quality, so looks like we're down to the G35 and the new Max

I now live in the south, where rear wheel drive isn't a winter disaster, so I chose the G35. If I still lived up in OH, it would have been another Max SE

SteVTEC

The 6s is a V6, although it's a Ford Duratec with Mazda VVT under the hood (and apparently a very buggy electronic throttle control) so that may still disqualify it for ya.

Jaeger

Well I finally got the magazine. Very disappointing article. It was not so much a "comparison" as a brief impression of the 12 individual cars (subdivided into sub-groups of purportedly similar vehicles) followed by a list of the "final standings". There was ABSOLUTELY NO explanation of how they arrived at those rankings. If Car and Driver had run this comparison the results might have been meaningful. You may not agree with their end result, but at least you understand how they got there.

Oh - what they didn't like about the Maxima? "It's like wrestling an alligator....This engine is sending so much torque to the front wheels that it overpowers the rest of the car, so the Maxima always feels as if the motor is trying to get out of its cage." They also described generally poor suspension control.

Don't ask me if they tested the model with HLSD, they didn't say. It was the 6 sp. SE, however. Radiant Pumpkin no less.

Other points of interest:

0-60/ 1/4 mile - Maxima, 6.5/ 15.1@95; G35, 5.6 /14.1@98

One more point - I disagree with the assertion that the Maxima didn't belong in this test. It fits the price target and the general notion of a sports sedan (albeit a sports sedan writ large). Maybe "performance sedan" would be more accurate, but that's just semantics. Whatever you might call it, I cross-shopped the Maxima with several of the other cars on this list.

gmc74

LOL

I cross shopped the Maxima against the G35, the BMW, and the GP, but none of the other cars. The Max needs to be run against the TL, and other cars of the same size. It is definately a tweener, but then again so is the GP.

gmc74

What did the GP run for the 0-60 and 1/4 mile?

Audtatious

Here's the info and outcome:

"When the Maxima is going down the freeway, it feels as if it's on a mission. But once you leave the turnpike, there's simply not enough suspension control to keep you and your passengers from getting car sick. Sure, the Maxima's tires will carve up an offramp, but this 3534-pound car squirms, plunges, and wallows on a country road, and the steering wheel is always tugging at your hands to remind you that the front tires are doing almost all the work. It's like wrestling an alligator. Lorio concludes: "This engine is sending so much torque to the front wheels that it overpowers the rest of the car, so the Maxima always feels as if the motor is trying to get out of its cage". BOTTOM LINE: It's all about the engine"

Cars and the final standings:

1. Acura TSX (8.1 0-60 & 16.1 1/4 @ 89mph)
2. BMW 325i (8.1 0-60 & 16.2 1/4 @ 87mph)
3. Infiniti G35 (5.6 0-60 & 14.3 1/4 @ 100mph)
4. Lancer Evo (5.6 0-60 & 14.1 1/4 @ 98mph)
5. Mazda 6 S (7.1 0-60 & 15.6 1/4 @ 93mph)
6. Impreza WRX (6.1 0-60 & 14.8 1/4 @ 93mph)
7. Lexus IS300 (7.0 0-60 & 15.4 1/4 @ 92mph)
8. Audi A4 1.8T Quattro (8.9 0-60 & 16.5 1/4 @ 85mph)
9. Saab 9-3 Linear (7.7 0-60 & 16.0 1/4 @ 89mph)
10. MB C230K Sport (8.0 0-60 & 16.1 1/4 @ 88mph)
11. Pontiac GTP (7.2 0-60 & 15.5 1/4 @ 91mph)
12. Maxima SE (6.5 0-60 & 15.1 1/4 @ 95mph)

ga2000

uh 15.1 that was an auto or a stick for the maxima?

Audtatious

Auto....Don't know which one. This is an assumption since they mention the 6sp as optional...Probably the 4sp tranny if I were to guess...

ga2000

the 4spd is the sl so hmm i dotn know i know the 04 max can pull 14s with the auto 5spd

Jaeger

One of the many deficiencies of the article is a lack of specifics as to how the test cars were equipped. Sometimes it's obvious from the text, other times not. They do praise the maxima's responsiveness "... especially when you control your fate with the six-speed manual transmission." This suggests they tested the stick. In any event it WAS an SE, so no 4-speed auto.

Jaeger

chigga

iTrader: (2)

is the torque steer that bad in the 04's?? and i thought the pontiac and the max would have better times in the quarter mile...