TL guys bashing maxima
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Another topic that has been discussed ad nauseum. There's no comparison really save that they are both FWDs.
Besides, the TL is simply on another planet compared to the Max--the Max is not a luxury car.
They're definitely on the same planet. Hell, they're even playing together in the same ballpark whether any Acura guys would like to admit it or not. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Including the same weak arguments that some (not all) Acura owners come up with.
I'll be away all weekend, but I fully expect this thread to be locked before I get back.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
I'm sorry. What?
Lots of 02 SE auto guys here have run 14.6-14.7 @ 93-94 mph stock which is about what a TL-S will run but at 95-96 mph, meaning the TL is BEHIND the entire race but catch up finally at the end with the faster trap. Torque ownz. A few Max auto guys have even run sub-14.5 runs all stock but that's pretty rare.
The TL-S is faster from about 70-110 due to better gearing, but the Maxima is quicker.
Lots of 02 SE auto guys here have run 14.6-14.7 @ 93-94 mph stock which is about what a TL-S will run but at 95-96 mph, meaning the TL is BEHIND the entire race but catch up finally at the end with the faster trap. Torque ownz. A few Max auto guys have even run sub-14.5 runs all stock but that's pretty rare.
The TL-S is faster from about 70-110 due to better gearing, but the Maxima is quicker.
I can tell you by experience, i raced a tl and he owned me from 80 up....big time... torque owns nothing high end... maybe if we raced 0-10 mph...
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
Gotta love the logic here.
TL 270HP > Maxima 265HP
Therefore, TL is faster in every way.
Lets please try not to be ricers and forget all about that missing torque in the TL and also that extra 100 lb of weight as well. BTW, from a previous thread, it looks like the Maxima may really have more like 280hp/270tq like the G35c, but I eagerly await dynos to confirm. We'll have to have a nice dyno shoot out when some of the TL guys dyno. 
For the record, I think the 04 TL is a very nice car. But I saw one the other day and the front looks just like a TSX (couldn't tell the difference at all) and the rear looks like a Lincoln LS. And I'm just not feeling the sides either. It looks very bland to me already and the car is brand new. Call me weird if you want, but I think the 04 Max looks much better. It's different yes, but it stands out a lot more. And for that much money I would like a little more torque than what it has, and I would also like power going to the rear wheels, not the front wheels. I think a Max still passes (barely) with FWD at its sub-$30k pricing nicely equipped. The TL is a nice car, but just not for me.
TL 270HP > Maxima 265HP
Therefore, TL is faster in every way.
Lets please try not to be ricers and forget all about that missing torque in the TL and also that extra 100 lb of weight as well.
BTW, from a previous thread, it looks like the Maxima may really have more like 280hp/270tq like the G35c, but I eagerly await dynos to confirm. We'll have to have a nice dyno shoot out when some of the TL guys dyno. For the record, I think the 04 TL is a very nice car. But I saw one the other day and the front looks just like a TSX (couldn't tell the difference at all) and the rear looks like a Lincoln LS. And I'm just not feeling the sides either. It looks very bland to me already and the car is brand new. Call me weird if you want, but I think the 04 Max looks much better. It's different yes, but it stands out a lot more. And for that much money I would like a little more torque than what it has, and I would also like power going to the rear wheels, not the front wheels. I think a Max still passes (barely) with FWD at its sub-$30k pricing nicely equipped. The TL is a nice car, but just not for me.
Honda engines are always undertated.. that 100 pounds means nothing i they have perfect gearing... and i guess well have to wait for some track times....
one thing that i like about the new tl is better gas milage and better emissions...
you may pay more for a tl but the gas milage pays for itself.
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 261
From: ll
AS nice as this argument looks on paper with all of the paper stats, etc, in real world performance test, the two are neck and neck in a dead heat as far as which is faster. You can try to justify it in your mind by say "well, at least the max has more torque", etc, etc ,etc - but as long as they perform the same, it doesn't mean jack. If anything, it means the TL has a more efficient drivetrain. The performance argument doesn't hold up at all.
Also, here's a interesting link: http://g35driver.com/forums/showflat...&part=all&vc=1
And you say that the TL guys have a weak argument? I don't think your's is stronger than a wet paper towel supporting grapes
Not to mention that the TL has the option of Brembo breaks Next thing you'll be saying is "Geeze, why do I need Brembo breaks on a car?!?!?! I DON'T NEED TO STOP FASTER - I ONLY WANT TO GO FASTER!!!!" 
Also, here's a interesting link: http://g35driver.com/forums/showflat...&part=all&vc=1
Yeah there's no comparison at all. They're only both about the same size, have about the same features, the Max has more power, the Acura is a little more refined but costs $4k more to get it. And why do I need Dolby 5.1 surround and Bluetooth in a car?? Geez, I don't live in my car!
Not to mention that the TL has the option of Brembo breaks
Next thing you'll be saying is "Geeze, why do I need Brembo breaks on a car?!?!?! I DON'T NEED TO STOP FASTER - I ONLY WANT TO GO FASTER!!!!"
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Originally Posted by Oxidizer2k
Honda engines are always undertated..
The J30A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A2 was not under-rated.
The J30A4 was not under-rated except for in the coupe/6spd version. The engine puts out advertised power on the required 87 octane fuel but does pickup some on premium. But it was rated on 87, and puts out about what it's supposed to on 87. I don't know where this Honda engines are "always" underrated crap is coming from, but it's not true at all.
Originally Posted by Oxidizer2k
that 100 pounds means nothing i they have perfect gearing...
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Originally Posted by rbloedow
AS nice as this argument looks on paper with all of the paper stats, etc, in real world performance test, the two are neck and neck in a dead heat as far as which is faster.
Originally Posted by rbloedow
You can try to justify it in your mind by say "well, at least the max has more torque", etc, etc ,etc - but as long as they perform the same, it doesn't mean jack.
02 Max: 14.6-14.7 @ 93
02 TL-S: 14.6-14.7 @ 95-96
The Max can pull the same ET with a 2-3 mph slower trap which means it was a lot stronger off the line and through the 1/8th mile. The TL comes roaring back in the last 1/8th mile above 70 mph and pulls to even at the line. I hardly ever break 70, so you know which car I'd prefer.
Originally Posted by rbloedow
If anything, it means the TL has a more efficient drivetrain. The performance argument doesn't hold up at all.
Originally Posted by rbloedow
And you say that the TL guys have a weak argument? I don't think your's is stronger than a wet paper towel supporting grapes
Originally Posted by rbloedow
Not to mention that the TL has the option of Brembo breaks ;-) Next thing you'll be saying is "Geeze, why do I need Brembo breaks on a car?!?!?! I DON'T NEED TO STOP FASTER - I ONLY WANT TO GO FASTER!!!!" :deezo :
BTW, that's on the A-spec package which is how much additional money? You can get Brembos on a G35 as well for less money and you still have RWD.
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Originally Posted by Oxidizer2k
I can tell you by experience, i raced a tl and he owned me from 80 up....big time... torque owns nothing high end... maybe if we raced 0-10 mph...
This CL-S I ran was starting to pull at 80, but since there was traffic coming up and it was a 40 zone, that's when we had to shut it down. Too bad he couldn't make use of that 70 horsepower advantage he had on me and was instead left dealing with the fact that my thrust to weight ratio below 5000 rpm was better than his.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
Wrong.
The J30A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A2 was not under-rated.
The J30A4 was not under-rated except for in the coupe/6spd version. The engine puts out advertised power on the required 87 octane fuel and does pickup some on premium. But it was rated on 87, and puts out about what it's supposed to on 87. I don't know where this Honda engines are "always" underrated crap is coming from, but it's not true at all.
Wrong again. If you have perfect gearing, extra weight will still always be holding you back. The only reason the 02 TL-S was not any quicker than the Max was that extra 250 lb of curb weight. Without that it would have been running mid-14's all stock frequently.
The J30A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A1 was not under-rated.
The J32A2 was not under-rated.
The J30A4 was not under-rated except for in the coupe/6spd version. The engine puts out advertised power on the required 87 octane fuel and does pickup some on premium. But it was rated on 87, and puts out about what it's supposed to on 87. I don't know where this Honda engines are "always" underrated crap is coming from, but it's not true at all.
Wrong again. If you have perfect gearing, extra weight will still always be holding you back. The only reason the 02 TL-S was not any quicker than the Max was that extra 250 lb of curb weight. Without that it would have been running mid-14's all stock frequently.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
This I agree to, which is much better than the "TL is faster always" garbage which honestly got old about 2 years ago.
Wrong again. If the Max has more torque, that means you won't have to flog it as much to get it moving vs the TL which will need more revs. I have a more relaxed driving style and don't care for engines that require serious revs all the time. Just look at trap speeds and performance from the previous gen cars.
02 Max: 14.6-14.7 @ 93
02 TL-S: 14.6-14.7 @ 95-96
The Max can pull the same ET with a 2-3 mph slower trap which means it was a lot stronger off the line and through the 1/8th mile. The TL comes roaring back in the last 1/8th mile above 70 mph and pulls to even at the line. I hardly ever break 70, so you know which car I'd prefer.
Another fanboy argument. No it just means that the power is biased differently, or in the case of the 02 TL-S, the gearing was much better for the last 1/8th mile. The Maxima has a 5spd auto with nearly identical gearing now so that advantage that the TL once had is now gone too.
I'm talking about real-world facts/physics, timeslips, and equipment/size/pricing. The argument over there is just smack talk without any technical merit or content. It's not even an argument. Just your standard
I guess Brembos is what Acura needs for a car to actually have good braking performance. BTW, that's on the A-spec package which is how much additional money? You can get Brembos on a G35 as well for less money and you still have RWD.
Wrong again. If the Max has more torque, that means you won't have to flog it as much to get it moving vs the TL which will need more revs. I have a more relaxed driving style and don't care for engines that require serious revs all the time. Just look at trap speeds and performance from the previous gen cars.
02 Max: 14.6-14.7 @ 93
02 TL-S: 14.6-14.7 @ 95-96
The Max can pull the same ET with a 2-3 mph slower trap which means it was a lot stronger off the line and through the 1/8th mile. The TL comes roaring back in the last 1/8th mile above 70 mph and pulls to even at the line. I hardly ever break 70, so you know which car I'd prefer.
Another fanboy argument. No it just means that the power is biased differently, or in the case of the 02 TL-S, the gearing was much better for the last 1/8th mile. The Maxima has a 5spd auto with nearly identical gearing now so that advantage that the TL once had is now gone too.
I'm talking about real-world facts/physics, timeslips, and equipment/size/pricing. The argument over there is just smack talk without any technical merit or content. It's not even an argument. Just your standard
I guess Brembos is what Acura needs for a car to actually have good braking performance.
BTW, that's on the A-spec package which is how much additional money? You can get Brembos on a G35 as well for less money and you still have RWD. Damn you again.....
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
you know what, this is seriously getting pointless as stev has said.... unless somone here owns both of the cars and can tell which car is better overal, then there is no point anymore because it seems always that the conversation always ends up being which car is faster...... MY reason for buying a maxima was because it was cheaper than a TL and not as bland... plus it was better quality then the TL..... and My family needed another family car.....
but if some of you cant swallow the whole argument, then we should all join the TL board (as tl board members join maxima.org) and we should all group gang the members there about the maxima.... I went over the posts (then i joined) about the maxima vs tl thing, and most of those people havent even driven the maxima and dis it.... call it a boat... and much more.... im gonna have some words to say tonight...
peace....
but if some of you cant swallow the whole argument, then we should all join the TL board (as tl board members join maxima.org) and we should all group gang the members there about the maxima.... I went over the posts (then i joined) about the maxima vs tl thing, and most of those people havent even driven the maxima and dis it.... call it a boat... and much more.... im gonna have some words to say tonight...
peace....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
julian888
7th Generation Classifieds (2009-2015)
0
Aug 6, 2015 04:39 AM