OEM Rear Sway Bar?
03-02-2007, 07:45 AM
#1
OEM Rear Sway Bar?
If you have a OEM sway bar this is one of the top two things you can do (and the least expensive) for better handling and reducing understeer...
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2359/article.html
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2359/article.html
03-02-2007, 09:03 AM
#3
They make those types of bars shown for VW's, the they call them O bars. They work extremey well but there is a very obvious decrease in ride quality. Cornering is greatly improved but at the cost of comfort. Where as a larger rear sway bar is a simple bolt on without the need to drill a rear beam, and ride quality does not suffer at all
03-02-2007, 09:56 AM
#5
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Originally Posted by DeusExMaxima
Thats the nice thing about a larger rear bar; much better handling, and no affect on ride quality. The only concern is lift-throttle oversteer. Just don't do it!
03-02-2007, 12:51 PM
#7
Originally Posted by 2LEET4U
a little confuse here....... so because of the article, dont upgrade your rear bars??? is that what everyone is saying?
The thicker the sway bar the less understeer (FWD cars generally have lots of understeer).
The thicker the sway bar the better the steering response is and turn in.
The thicker the sway bar the less lean in corners.
Thicker sway bars are the easiest way to better overall handling without overly compromising ride quality.
Get one and corner like a beast!
03-02-2007, 03:14 PM
#8
Originally Posted by coolmax05
The thicker the sway bar the less understeer (FWD cars generally have lots of understeer).
The thicker the sway bar the better the steering response is and turn in.
The thicker the sway bar the less lean in corners.
Thicker sway bars are the easiest way to better overall handling without overly compromising ride quality.
Get one and corner like a beast!
The thicker the sway bar the better the steering response is and turn in.
The thicker the sway bar the less lean in corners.
Thicker sway bars are the easiest way to better overall handling without overly compromising ride quality.
Get one and corner like a beast!
03-02-2007, 05:29 PM
#13
Deaccelerating in turns with FWD vehicles can actually eliminate or reduce understeer by placing more load on the front (steering) tires. More load = more grip. However, the inverse is true. Since the weight is shifted forward, the rear tires will have less grip, and due to the two distinct lines taken, the back end will have a habit of swinging out if that grip is low enough (causing oversteer). A stiff sway bar will exacerbate this condition. This is why car manufacturers lean on the side of caution going with understeer/weak rear sway bars. In extreme conditions (high speed cornering) the public at large is able to deal with understeer better than they can oversteer. Why??? People tend to freak and deaccelerate or even apply the brakes unlike us "HIP" Maxima drivers. We turn into the direction of the skid and pass Vipers like they were driven by Great-Grandma. Remember the old Porsche's-Rear engine/tranny. Massive oversteer produced by all the weight in the rears. Guys would wrap themselves around trees like it was going out of style. Since then porsche has widened the rear stance and tires to help prevent this from happening. Yes, producing less oversteer!
03-02-2007, 05:40 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Nice article. I just recently installed KYB struts and Progress springs. I've been loving the new handling, but have wondered what more new sway bars would get me. The article explained it well. I've been contemplating the Nismo sway bars. They're actually for the Altima, but I've read they will fit the 6th generation Maxima perfectly. I've found them pretty cheap at a Nissan dealership in Georgia ($275 front and rear). Check'em out if you're interested:
http://www.vadennissanparts.com/
I may go for them soon.
-Brian
http://www.vadennissanparts.com/
I may go for them soon.
-Brian
03-02-2007, 06:48 PM
#15
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: LA/OC, CA
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by coolmax05
Deaccelerating in turns with FWD vehicles can actually eliminate or reduce understeer by placing more load on the front (steering) tires. More load = more grip. However, the inverse is true. Since the weight is shifted forward, the rear tires will have less grip, and due to the two distinct lines taken, the back end will have a habit of swinging out if that grip is low enough (causing oversteer). A stiff sway bar will exacerbate this condition. This is why car manufacturers lean on the side of caution going with understeer/weak rear sway bars. In extreme conditions (high speed cornering) the public at large is able to deal with understeer better than they can oversteer. Why??? People tend to freak and deaccelerate or even apply the brakes unlike us "HIP" Maxima drivers. We turn into the direction of the skid and pass Vipers like they were driven by Great-Grandma. Remember the old Porsche's-Rear engine/tranny. Massive oversteer produced by all the weight in the rears. Guys would wrap themselves around trees like it was going out of style. Since then porsche has widened the rear stance and tires to help prevent this from happening. Yes, producing less oversteer!
03-02-2007, 07:40 PM
#16
Originally Posted by RHMax
Lift throttle DURING cornering w/ FWD will cause understeer because of engine braking; but a RWD will oversteer.
The bane of the high-performance FWD car--understeer--is nearly eliminated. When the throttle is lifted mid-corner, the car crisply lets its tail out, helping the car rotate while conserving momentum. The tail-out attitude is easily controllable with the throttle pedal or a bit of counter steer. The amount of rotation, however, is pretty aggressive and may be too aggressive for the timid driver. We may experiment with stiffening the front springs and softening the rear to make the car more neutral. Such fine tuneablity is easy with the Ground Control ERS spring system.
Despite our ultra-high spring rate selection, our ride on the street is acceptable, although we do admit it's a bit edgy for a daily driver.
Now that the car handles, its lack of horsepower is painfully apparent. Our next installment will focus on improving the lackluster performance of our humble 2.0-liter SOHC engine. We can hardly wait to finish the first round of bolt-on engine mods so we can enter some local autocrosses.
With luck, we'll be half as successful under the hood as we have been with the suspension.
Sources
KONI North America
(859) 586-4100
www.koni-na.com
Adjustable Gas Shocks
Ground Control Inc.
(530) 677-8600
www.ground-control.com
Coil-over Spring Kit, Camber/Caster Plates
Edelbrock
(310) 781-2222
www.edelbrock.com
Rear Strut Tower Brace
Energy Suspension
(949) 361-3935
www.energysuspension.com
Suspension Bushings and Engine Mounts
Eibach
(949) 752-6700
www.eibach.com
Anti-roll Bars and ERS Springs
Chikara
(562) 921-0404
www.chikaraperformance.com
Front Strut Tower Brace
Read this...
http://members.tripod.com/~team-wreckless/rwvsfw.htm
Now read this...
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/susp-15.htm
03-02-2007, 09:41 PM
#19
Originally Posted by aryathegreat
so wait, what is the best thing to do through a turn?
going past the limit will feel like you can't turn it: UNDERSTEER...
you have to let off the gas some to regain control.
If you tightened the rear...
past the limit you may feel the rear slide out: OVERSTEER...
stay on the gas and turn toward the slide to maintain control.
(that is emergency situation only of course
)
03-03-2007, 08:51 AM
#21
But on a daily driver in 99.99% of situations, the upgraded rear sway bar will limit the amount of body lean in normal cornering and help eliminate the wallowing at highway speed during lane changes and taking curves. Correct?? B/c thats what I'm looking for.
03-03-2007, 09:39 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by BadBlackMaxSL
But on a daily driver in 99.99% of situations, the upgraded rear sway bar will limit the amount of body lean in normal cornering and help eliminate the wallowing at highway speed during lane changes and taking curves. Correct?? B/c thats what I'm looking for.
03-03-2007, 06:32 PM
#23
Newbie just Registered
Join Date: May 2005
Location: LA/OC, CA
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Originally Posted by coolmax05
Are you sure my man?
03-03-2007, 09:09 PM
#24
After a few mods, the behavior of the MAX does change. You have to recheck your handling/cornering after the RSB, springs, etc. I personally like a bit of understeer (front slides out). Keeps my heart rate high.
Here are some notes I have to adjust slippage:
To increase understeer (front slippage)/decrease oversteer
Stiffen front springs
Stiffen front dampers
Stiffen front sway bar
Increase front tire pressure
Increase front toe-in
To decrease understeer (front slippage)/increase oversteer
Soften front spring/dampers
Stiffen rear spring/dampers
Stiffen rear sway bar
Decrease front tire pressure or
Increase rear tire pressure
Add rear toe-in
Here are some notes I have to adjust slippage:
To increase understeer (front slippage)/decrease oversteer
Stiffen front springs
Stiffen front dampers
Stiffen front sway bar
Increase front tire pressure
Increase front toe-in
To decrease understeer (front slippage)/increase oversteer
Soften front spring/dampers
Stiffen rear spring/dampers
Stiffen rear sway bar
Decrease front tire pressure or
Increase rear tire pressure
Add rear toe-in
03-04-2007, 02:34 PM
#25
Originally Posted by RHMax
So I got my car to oversteer today, on purpose. I was wrong. It wasn't a wipe out, just a little oversteer. I was in 2nd doing about 45 on a 30 MPH descending on ramp and let off half way thru(no one else was around that's why I decided to do this). The rear stepped out a little and corrected itself, the went neutrual the rest of the 270 degree onramp. Progress springs/RSB combo.
03-04-2007, 03:47 PM
#27
[QUOTE=madmik]After a few mods, the behavior of the MAX does change. You have to recheck your handling/cornering after the RSB, springs, etc. /QUOTE]
And ONE. Even after changing tires you have to "re-learn" your limits. RS-A vs. BF-Goodrich here.
And ONE. Even after changing tires you have to "re-learn" your limits. RS-A vs. BF-Goodrich here.
03-04-2007, 06:30 PM
#28
The T/A KDW are pretty good so far, even on cold pavement. Just installed ceramic pads all around. Braking is now breathtaking. Almost no ABS action, just pure stopping power. This much cornering traction should not be legal... 
Eibach a tad soft now.
Eibach a tad soft now.
03-04-2007, 07:35 PM
#30
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
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Originally Posted by xoomer.com
Not to mention the compliments we get on the sick lookin' tread design
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