largepkg25

I know this CVT thing is supposed to be the future but I'm not very happy with it as far as performance is concerned. Seems when I get on it hard (WOT) it holds each gear forever before up shifting. Is this happening to all you CVT's out there?

dirtydishes06

iTrader: (7)

I really dont think a cvt transmission 'upshifts.' It feels like its in it forever because it is when you go wot.

bb700092

I own a 2007 Maxima SL with everything except navi (i.e. it comes with vehicle dynamic control). I find that when my foot is neither on the gas pedal nor on the brake, the car deccelerates until around the speed of 20mph after which it accelerates a little unexpectedly and of course undesirably. Note that the car is not on cruise control. It seems that some base RPM is catching up with the residual speed and making the car accelerate. Has any of you noticed this problem with CVT?

I talked to the dealer about this and he drove two other 2007 SL in his lot and reported the same observation. He also talked to a technician and he apparently told him that this is not a problem but how CVTs work.

Theoretically, CVTs should be smooth as they have the equivalent of infinite gears. I am wondering if other cars with CVTs, especially the higher-end ones (like Infiniti) also manifest the same problem.

largepkg25

I understand that the CVT has no gears but however it choses its ratios is messed up. When I go WOT the car takes off, building up to redline in each gear ratio it selects. Once it hits 70-75mph it sticks at redline for a good full second instead of dropping the gear ratio. This leaves you with much slower acceleration than should be attained.

Basically this thing could be a lot faster than it is and that's because of the CVT.

SickSE

Yea, basically the cvt sucks. Drove one this morning just out of curiosity. The Maxima is now a dawg. Thanks NISSAN.

betep

Manual is the way to go.

Too bad no 07

Fastmax05

iTrader: (17)

a dog? hahahah it runs the same times as an 04-06 maxi... maybe a little slower

SmokinMaxSE

iTrader: (1)

Don't question the technology. Never mind how it feels. Just know that its a "CVT" and it works.

scubat

iTrader: (1)

I am not real excited with my 2007 Maxima SL CVT either. The car is really refined and smooth, but it just doesn't hit as hard as my 04 and 06 did. I understand the CVT is supposed to be smooth in comparison to a conventional tranny. The CVT seems to slip a lot when you punch it. The engine revs but the transmission has to play catch up with the engine. I actually let up on the gas pedal a little and this seems to engage the transmission quicker. I still love the car but I am not 100% sold on this CVT thing yet! maybe it will get better with more break in, I only have 1400 miles on the car!

LA02MAX

iTrader: (3)

I drove my friend's fully loaded 2007 maxima with 3k miles on it for a couple days and i loved the CVT. I absolutely hated the manumatic mode (terribly slow shifts, virtual gears were way too long) but in D I thought it was infinitely better than an auto. I floored it a couple times going 50-70 mph and it shoots up to redline promptly...it's definitely not as fast as my 6-speed, but it seemed to have really good off the line punch and it was silky smooth.

STARR

iTrader: (1)

they seem to improve with mileage, but I would still like to see Nissan offer it as an option not force it on the customers, but to most people it's just a transmission

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I'm wondering if it's worse than the awful 4AT?

Nietzsche

iTrader: (7)

the cvt is great, people just aren't used to them. As an auto it is amazing, it revs to a preselected rpm based on maximum hp or tq depending on the situation..and stays there. Properly tuned a cvt would be faster than an auto and probably a manual. upshifting kills speed, if you could stay at maximum hp after launch and just ride it the car would accelerate quicker than with gear ratios...theoretically at least.

largepkg25

Maybe my point isn't clear. First, I love the CVT. The smoothness alone has won me over. The only issue I have is the fact that it seems to get stuck in gear @ 70 mph. I should correct myself and say when I start from a stop and go WOT, at 70 mph it gets stuck for a solid second maybe longer before it changes to the next gear ratio. This slows the cars acceleration considerably! If I let off the pedal for a fraction of a second it will change gear ratios quickly but I shouldn't have to do this.

I saw from another post that if you throw it into manual mode at 70 mph with WOT it will seriously improve the quickness of the car. I've tried this and he was correct. As a matter of fact, from a stop I go WOT and at 70 mph I throw it into manual mode and the car shifts on its own beautifully from there. Just seems strange one would need to do this to get the best performance from the CVT.

Nissan seems to have programmed this tranny towards the masses not the enthusiast.

Mack

iTrader: (1)

That's a pretty thorough post Large. I drove an '07 SL CVT and it REALLY impressed me. But it was around town and I didnt' get a chance to get on the highway above 70mph. However, around town it was very impressive and VERY responsive. Way more so than my '06 SE. Typically when I gun it, it takes a sec or so to drop gears then kick in, with the CVT you have INSTANT *****. But like anything, I'd be very hesitant to jump on board in year 1. I'll wait a few more years before jumping on a newer model with CVT. I'm sure they'll get the bugs worked out, and maybe even offer 2 models. Daily driver and Enthusiast. Now that'd be schweet.

Nietzsche

iTrader: (7)

I've driven the cvt's alot, admittedly never above 75, but I don't understand your stuck in gear analogy. What gears? How can it get stuck, it holds rpm, there is no "gear" to get stuck in.

betep

You just have to get used to this "no gears" transmission.

I was wondering - If Manual Transmission hp loss to the wheels ~15%, auto ~20%, where CVT stands.

RHMax

Can you dyno in D on a CVT? Would someone try and find out?

SmokinMaxSE

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure he is only saying it that way. Just because its not stuck on a "gear" doesn't make it better. He says the RPMs are stuck at redline between 70-75mph..

largepkg25

Bingo!

I've read other post on this exact same subject so I'm not the only one noticing this problem. I posted this so I can see how many are noticing this problem.

If you have the CVT, please check it out for yourself and let us all know if you experience the same thing. Again at WOT, 70-75 mph its stuck at red line for approximately 1 full second before the CVT adjust the gear ratios and it takes off again.

lightonthehill

I only test-drove the '07 Maxima with CVT one time, but was most impressed with everything about its performance.

Having said that, I am well-aware that the '07 Maxima is in some ways a 'test-bed' wherin Nissan is able to find and re-engineer any weak points in their CVT, so that it can be used across much of their fleet. I will be very interested to know if this CVT remains fairly trouble-free over the long haul.

There is no question that, based on simple physics, the CVT will someday reach the level where it will outperform both automatics and manuals. As soon as the propensity for CVTs to run hot (requiring sophisticated cooling) is overcome, and the car computer system controlling them has been 'polished', that 'someday' will have arrived.

DasYears

you can, but you wont get anything useful. it just goes to the preselected rpm and stays there. you would theoretically get a near straight line with speed on the x-axis or just about no info with rpm on the x-axis. im sure there is a way to dyno a cvt, someone just needs to figure it out

madmik

iTrader: (1)

Ask the dealer if Nissan has a newer TCM program for your Max. That is the only way to correct a tranny behavior (unless something is mechanically wrong). The TCM code holds all the logic on when to up/down shift, etc.

If the TCM has a good upshift/RPM program, IMO, not having to loose time in between gears should make the CVT a fender faster.

CVT is killing the car enthusiast.

RHMax

It would still give WHP and AFR though, maybe a quick look at the WTQ as it revs up.

04BlackMaxx

I wouldnt pick up a maxima after this one if it had a CVT. I want normal gears in my car, perhaps more though.

Nietzsche

iTrader: (7)

What's the dif? 8 speed auto or cvt, it's not like an 8 speed auto is better or more sporty. cvt's beat out standard autos just like DSG systems beat out standard manual.

tubells

LOH was waiting for ure say on this..... but not enuf....need more

lightonthehill

tubells - I would love to give you more, but do not feel having driven the CVT less than ten minutes, all at speeds below sixty mph, qualifies me to make any real judgment.

I will admit that, always having been closely attuned to what rpms I am running, and at what points the tranny is shifting, the sensation of gradually increasing rpms with never a single shift was at first disconcerting. I didn't even have to look at the instrumentation to be fully aware of the situation; the sound of the engine made it very clear there was no tranny shift.

Probably because my college study courses were more into theoretical mechanics and theoretical physics than in applied sciences, I tend to dwell on the obvious fact that a non-shifting tranny, once it is perfected, will out-perform a shifting one. That is elementary.

The important point is in being able to know when the development of the CVT has reached or surpassed the level at which current shifting trannys perform. A few years ago, the CVTs were not yet as good as shifting ones. With the '07 CVT, based more on the experiences of several '07 owners here, and by two acquaintances who own '07s than on my limited time driving it, I feel the CVT is now fairly equivalent to shifting trannys.

It may take another few years to completely solve the tendency of CVT trannys to run very hot (wasting energy), and to perfect the computer software to properly control the CVT. But that will happen. It may even be that the CVTs on the 7th gen '09 Maxima arriving next spring will be improved over the ones on the '07. But we won't know until they get here.

You can count me among those who are very glad the CVT may be our tranny of the future. At the same time, even being aware of the negative economic side of multiple tranny options, I would have preferred that Maxima buyers still have a choice in trannys.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

After reading this thread I am SOOOOO glad I have the 6 speed manual. I test drove the very first 07 Maxima that came my local stealership and I was the first driver too. It was interesting, but certainly doesn't make me an expert because of the short time I drove it. I think it takes getting used to and also, as was mentioned in here, the technology needs some improvement that will likely occur. I think the CVT is geared (pardon the pun) for the older crowd (over 35) even though I am in that category but prefer the manual tranny.

SilverMax_04

Well, I'm in the over 60 crowd and much prefer the manual trannie. (I'm probably an anomaly, but I don't care.)

I find it interesting that "light" thinks engineers will be able to cure the high-heat problems with the CVT. I'm not so sure that this problem has a engineering fix. Time will tell on this issue.

I'm curious about the complaint that the CVT keeps the engine at red-line from 70 to 75 MPH. I thought that with WOT, the CVT was supposed to keep the engine at red-line all the way up until you let off of the accelerator. Although the complaint seems to be about keeping the engine at red-line, I suspect that the real complaint is that the CVT will not move the tannie belts to get a slightly higher trannie ratio -- starting at about 70 MPH. {Note that I said "trannie ratio" and not "gear ratio" -- there are no gears in a CVT, but there is a ratio-effect from this trannie.} If that is the case, the engine at redline and with the trannie not moving to a higher trannie ratio, the engine would tend to keep the car from further acceleration.

Final Points on the Manual Trannie:
I like my manual trannie because I get to choose one of 6 gear ratios. That is maximum control. I use my manual trannie both for acceleration and engine braking. I would hesitate to use the manual mode in the CVT to get engine breaking going down hills -- doing so would tend to overheat a trannie that has too much heat generation already. Althought I use my manual trannie for engine breaking, it does not have any heat generation problems. I changed to synthetic gear oil and will change this oil every 40 K miles or so to keep the gears from developing an issue from doing engine breaking every time I drive away from my house (and drop 1,200 feet in elevation).

Also, I know when a corner is coming and can adjust my shift pattern to handle that situation. I can see what is coming and no CVT or auto trannie can do that. When I drive, I also like to think about driving (not vedge-out). A manual trannie keeps me engaged in driving much more than any other form of trannie.

Would I be happier if I could get a taller top gear for my Max? You bet !
Sixth gear is too short and my VQ is screaming at 3 K RPM at 82 MPH. I would get better mileage if at 82 MPH, the VQ was at about 2,300 RPM or so. I would have to down-shift if I came to a slight hill, but the fuel economy would improve. But I will give up the lower engine RPMs at highway speeds that you can get from a CVT just to keep the control that I get from a manual trannie.

Mack

iTrader: (1)

Wow, great write-up bro. Yeah at your age you are definitely an anomaly. Even at my age (37) I'd be hesitant to own another manual shift, but I do live in Atlanta so my knees would be shot in no time. But I would still LOVE to have one as a weekend driver and like you said, it keeps you engaged.

jcalabria

DING DING DING... we have a winner! Nissan did a pretty good job in the CVT ratio mapping... the tranny does exactly what its supposed to and provides very good performance under just about every situation --- except for the "70mph wall" that everyone is referring to. For whatever reason... whether a programming error or a conscious decision in order to protect some highly-stressed component in the tranny, the programmed rate of acceleration does flatten out at 70mph. And, as posted, the workaround is to put it into manual mode at that speed to allow a more "conventional" engine-speed-dependent acceleration mode.

Up to that 70mph point, however, both theory and practical experience are that the car is much quicker in CVT mode. For a first effort in a car that has a performance minded following that cares about this stuff, its a pretty damn good one. It will only get better, too.

I have to disagree with LA02MAX about the manumatic mode. Although there really is no point from a straight-line performance perspective to use it (under 70mph, that is), the manumatic mode in the Max CVT is by far the most responsive and quick shifting manumatic I have ever experienced (and I've drive quite a few). I've actually been very disappointed with virtually every other manumatic I have ever driven... except this one. Both up and downshifts are lightning fast and downshifts (at least act as if they) are rev-matched. Maybe he just drove a bad example.

simplesb

Sorry..new guy here chiming in. I have noticed that it does have a tendency to stay at redline during a hard acceleration (almost scares me), I guess I will need to watch when I hit 70. What I don't understand is the argument for "working out the bugs" on the CVT. I was under the understanding that the Murano was their initial test with the CVT, at least in the US market, and that knowledge was what used to implement it on the other models. I also use to own a Murano, the first model year to be exact, and had no problems with the CVT, although some did have major problems with the CVT failing and if I remember right Nissan wasn't covering it for one reason or another. In any case I digress, as far as I know CVT has been out for several years and would think that the major issues have been worked out. I think now the issues are expectations. Even in the Murano forums there was the constant debate about how far the CVT could be pushed before it failed. Would better programming create better performance?maybe, but possibly at the cost of a shorter then expected life span on the CVT.

lightonthehill

simplesh - I am one who has owned nothing but Maximas for 23 years, and, even though I have driven well over 100 MPH in many deserted western areas, I have never had one at redline. Nor do I want any Maxima I am driving to put itself at redline (as hard accelleration with the CVT seems to do).

Just based on various posts I have read here, and a few technical writeups I saw explaining Nissan's efforts to cool the current CVT, I feel 'CVT perfection' is a still a tad off in the future.

I think the CVT in the '07 Maxima is very good, maybe better than other trannies for the average driver. But it will be difficult for the CVT to clearly surpass other trannies until it can handle desired programming at speeds over 70, and a way is found to reduce its overheating tendency.

As far as very experienced drivers go, some will take to the CVT just fine, some reluctantly, and some not at all. I am one who, based on the laws of physics, and knowing any shifting of gears results in some loss of momentum and energy, has very high hopes for the CVT. At the same time, I will have a major adjustment in getting used to driving one, simply from having driven 'shifting' trannies since fall of 1949.

There is one category of driver who will never really adopt the CVT. That is the manual trannie driver. Although the proliferation of traffic in many parts of the country has ruined things for the manual tranny driver, there are still areas where the manual is well-suited to the terrain and traffic, and clearly gives more control over many situations. Sadly, as far as the Maxima is concerned, Nissan seems to be leaving them behind.

It will be interesting to see if the CVT is the only tranny available with the 'very powerful' diesel coming around 2010.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

On the other hand, I am one who has had my max beyond its original redline - up to 7100 with no problems so far. As long as you have fresh oil, preferably Mobile 1, I dont believe redlining the max once in a while is a problem

SilverMax_04

I have hit red-line a few times in the 62 K miles of driving my 04 (my first Maxima). I don't like to do this frequently, but believe that "blowing out the engine" helps every once in a while.

"light" -- lighten up a little.
I belive that the nature of the CVT "beast" is such that there will remain heat generation problems with that trannie -- given the nature of how it works.
My wife would love a CVT, but I do about 90% of the driving (she likes it that way). And so we will have a manual trannie as long as I can push in the clutch. She learned to drive on a manual, and can handle shifting for the little bit of driving she does in our Max.

Yes, I feel like I've been left out in the new Maximas. Will run my 04 for as many years and miles as possible and then probably buy a 6-speed Altima (but will cross that bridge when the time comes and not before).

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

Not sure you can teach an old dog new tricks. I too believe blowing out the motor helps it, as long as its not too often. To each his/her own I suppose.

SilverMax_04

Deus, you could be talking about me being an "old dog" -- or you could be talking about "light." I'll assume you are talking about me. "light" seems to know all of "the tricks." But he's also, like me, set in his ways.

jcalabria

I don't believe the "bugs" in the Max CVT relate much to longevity or general operation/competency of the trans. As you noted, the Murano has already proven those points in this powetrain. What changes in the Max vs. the Murano is the expectations of the owner/driver. I can say with near certainty that there are way more performance/sport oriented drivers of Maximas than there are of Muranos.

Its also difficult to say that there are any "bugs" in the Max CVT at all. A characteristic that the more performance oriented driver might percieve as undesireable might in-fact be there quite on purpose, or because Nissan underestimated the demand for performance in a particular situation. No owner of a Murano may have ever complained about the flattening of the acceleration curve above 70mph, so Nissan may not have ever payed attention to this. Its quite likely that all that may be needed to correct this is a slight tweaking of the TCM mapping. The performance characteristics of this powertrain depend ENTIRELY on the mappings in the TCM and ECM modules.

Don't underestimate the fact that, even though the performance minded Max owners tend to congregate on this forum and are quite vocal about their opinions of the CVT, the general population of Max owners (most of which probably have never even heard of this forum) are probably quite satisfied with their CVTs.

I certainly consider myself an enthusiast, but my Max hardly ever sees a road where speeds above 60mph are even possible, so the flattening of the acceleration above 70mph is essentially a non-issue for me. I am very picky and critical of the operation of my cars... and I'm way more concerned about the wimpy suspension, less than stellar seat comfort and stereo fidelity, auxiliary inputs stuck in the middle of the dash and an idiotic unswitched power point buried at the bottom of the console cubby. The CVT is one of the more enjoyable aspects of the car, not one of the problems I tend to focus on.

Like many here I prefer and always have preferred a manual transmission - very few automatic transmissions have ever satisfied me. I was skeptical of the CVT at the outset - my wife's insistance on another Max is the only reason I'm not driving a TL or G35 right now. But after a full year and 18k miles, I can safely say that, all things considered, this is one of the best automatic transmissions I have ever experienced. It is very difficult to describe, but the CVT provides a driving experience that is much closer to driving manual than any other automatic I've ever drive. I think this is due to the very low speed of torque converter lock-up as compared to most automatics - it provides a very solid driveline feel. I will say that you have to spend some time driving a CVT to calibrate yourself to the car... there was at least 5k miles on mine before I realized all of its capabilities and how to access them. A 5 mile test drive at the dealership will never do it justice.

Future improvements in the CVT will almost certainly center around tweaking the programming (to better satisfy the performance crowd) and reducing parasitic thermal/friction issues (to improve highway mileage, in particular). Both would be welcome and will happen (programming tweaks will obviously happen sooner). But Nissan is not all that far off the mark and well ahead of any other CVT available.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

Silver, I wasnt referencing you, lol