MDeeze

Ok, just got my 04 SE aligned the other day at the shop. Got it back and it still pulls to the left slightly. Talked to the shop and they said they aligned it and found that it was slightly off before they did. What else could this be? They said they conducted a 4 wheel laser alignment on it and that they corrected it. Let me know Thanks. Do these cars have strong torque steer?

Lovemycar

Well does it pull left when you hit the brake or when you take your and off the wheel

STARR

iTrader: (1)

rotate the tires, you best bet is to check the alignment on the center lane of a highway

KC2010

iTrader: (1)

Can you scan and post the alignment sheet so we can see the numbers?

MDeeze

Went back to shop today and was told by them that as long as you hold the steering wheel straight and the car goes straight, it's aligned. I told them that it does that, but as soon as you let go, the car pulls left. He told me every car will pull a certain way depending on road, etc. This pulls left no matter if the road is perfectly flat or foot on gas, neutral, etc. Bringing it back to them tomorrow (wed). And I never got a sheet when they did the alignment.

itzkhanh

whered you go deeze? i'm not trying to go there.

KC2010

iTrader: (1)

Ask them for the alignment sheet. All shops should provide this. It shows if you might have any suspension issues that might need to be addressed. Above all else, it will give the customer the confidence that the shop did a proper alignment. Is this a shop that's part of a chain of shops? If so, see if you can go somewhere else.

MDeeze

Shop checked car again today, said they made minor adjustment on rack but car still pulls left once you let go of wheel on straight road....
Got alignment sheet today, I could not scan it so here is what it says...
Left Front: 0.0 Camber, 2.5 Caster, -0.01 Toe......Right Front: -0.1 Camber, 2.4 Caster, -0.01 Toe.....Total Toe -0.01 Steer Ahead 0.00
Left Rear: -0.7 Camber, 0.19 Toe.....Right Rear: -0.8 Camber 0.13 Toe...TOtal Toe 0.31
Does this tell you anything??? Thanks

Shoey1

0.3 inches of toe would be enough to make it pull. when i do alignments at work i always print out a before and after sheet for the customer so i can show what i did and that it was accurate, they should be able to do the same. ill try to remember to print out a sheet from the alignment rack at my shop and get you the factory specs for comparison. when they says every car pulls, he isn't lying. the crown or curve of the road for rain drain off will make it pull to the right not left. so something is clearly out of spec. they may have adjusted it to compensate for the road crown and over did it.

Shoey1

here are the factory specs from the brand new alignment machine from the shop i work at. Specs are the same for both sides.

Front Caster
Min: 2.1
Pref: 2.8
Max: 3.6

Front Camber
Min: -0.01
Pref: -0.03
Max: 0.5

Front Toe
Min: -0.01
Pref: 0.01
Max: 0.05

SAI (Steering Axis Inclination)
Min: 13.8
Pref: 14.6
Max: 15.3

Rear Camber
Min: 1.2
Pref: 0.7
Max: 0.2

Rear Toe
Min: 0.02
Pref: 0.04
Max: 0.06

If the alignment is done right it should be even on both sides. if they are uneven you will either gat a car that leads in on direction or another. or you get a crooked steering wheel

ryan188

yea mine pulls to the right too, and the shop tells me its out of allignment as of now, they will hopefully fix it tomorrow..

MDeeze

Shoey1, so when you look at my stats for alignment, you're telling me that it will pull because it is not even on both sides? Why wouldn't the shop make it even?

Shoey1

its hard for me to see in my head without the car on the rack but it seems like your rear toe is too far out of spec. looks like both rear tires are pointed to the left, thus making the car pull but not making the steering wheel go crooked. have it checked again and make sure you tell them about the toe in the rear. look at it this way...factory spec says

Min: 0.02
Pref: 0.04
Max.06

yours is 0.19 and 0.13

looks like its out by 0.15 and .09 and the preferred is .04. so the way i see it, toe is out of spec by almost 4 times the limit for the left and a bit more then 3 times for the right. maybe im making a big deal about nothing but that's how im doing the math in my head if you follow me. just to let you know im fairly new at the alignment game but i have good teachers and its not that complicated. just twist here, turn there, and push that, is basically all you do and the computer does a live calculation of what the measurements are while your doing it. hope this helps, keep asking if you think of anything else. also how hard is is going left when you let off the wheel. does it dive left of just wander a bit left?

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

My car does the same damn thing and it drives me f'ing insane.

I've had it aligned four times and it still drifts to the left. Not a ton, but just enough to be annoying. The alignment is within spec, but the camber and caster do have some split. However on these cars they are set from the factory and are not adjustable.

I'm at the point where I make take it to a frame shop that allegedly can fix anything. I'll post my alignment sheet tomorrow if I can find it.

I did get new tires...rotated them...problem did not go away.

MDeeze

It's wierd....sometimes the car rides straight and then it will pull to the left like I got a flat tire....but this only happens at speeds higher than 50mph. I checked tire pressure and I also did this while car was in gear and it neutral, does it both times so it's not torque steer.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what mine does. Drives me nuts. Definitely not torque steer.

What is wrong with these cars that makes them drift left??

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Finally getting around to posting my alignment specs - let me know what you think.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Here is the first one they did

Shoey1

rear toe is out but everything else is within spec but not exactly even but close enough.
im a bit **** retentive when i do alignments because i like it PERFECT. but not all alignment guys are like that. just have the rear toe redone and see what happens.

EDIT: they should be driving the car before and after the alignment to check whats changed and how it drives, so they should have noticed it before they let you have the keys back. a mechanic should be more finicky then the customer IMO

xnyc

iTrader: (9)

after alignment and if it still pulls, swap the 2 front wheels and see if its changing direction of pull or if the pull goes away. it could be conicity within the tire.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

This dealership sucks. I told them I wanted to go for a ride w/ the service manager and they wouldn't accomodate my request. They said they can't duplicate the pull. When I called the service manager he told me it was torque steer.

At the end of the day, the car still pulls to the left. I swapped the tires, and it still does it. Got a road force balance with the Straight Trak, and it still does it.

Is the toe not in spec? If so, I'd think I would have a leg to stand on if I asked them to realign it. Unfortunately its been about 20,000 miles (and five months) since they gave it a second attempt.

HusH

SHOEY1, i've been having really hard pulls to the left while driving n letting go of the steering wheel(even without letting em go i feel hard pull). so basically i need an alignment and i also need to buy 4 new tires since the ones it have are worn out. so im thinkin about gettin 4 all-weather tires(any suggestions on this...type,brand?) and also get them aligned and balanced after(can i use this alignment sheet as reference so i go prepared or can u post a really good sheet with everything i need to know?) just like u said, i also like to have things perfectly done!

Shoey1

as of right now im pretty stumped. where are you driving when its pulling? how hard of a pull are we talking here. this is one of those cars i need to drive with the customer or let the customer drive while i ride shotgun. i don't see why the service manager wont let you come along and ride while he drives. its your car you can do w/e you want.

as far as tires go your going to get 999999 different opinions on tires. my personal preference is a strict summer tire and strict winter tire and since it says you live in PA you must get some snow. i have 4 new cooper something or others on new plain black steel wheels for winter and they stick great. the only tires i have driven that were better were "nokian hakkapelitas" which are basically snow tires for rally cars but a street version. i have michelins primacy VX4 on my factory 17 inch aluminum wheels for summer and i think they are good too.

also if highly reccomend winter wheels for your winter tires (250 to 300 for 4 steel wheels approximately). sure you have to cough up some extra cash for the wheels up front but you only pay for a tire rotation (25 bucks) from then on instead of 4 mount and balances (90 bucks) and its better for your tires instead of stretching them on and off the rim twice a year. you will also be in and out of the shop quicker. mount and balance takes about 45 minutes to an hour for all 4 wheels. and a tire rotation takes about 5 minutes.

Shoey1

now that i think of it has your car ever been in an accident? if so, how serious and what was replaced?

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Are you talking about my car? I don't know - I bought it w/ 34K on it, and to the best of my knowledge it has not been in an accident. How reliable is Carfax?

Shoey1

only as reliable as the people who feed information to it

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Is that what you are thinking? Perhaps my car has been in a wreck? Anything I can look for to find out?

Shoey1

have a body shop check it out they will be able to pick it out quick. i found out that mine had a minor front end bump and had the grille replaced and broke the 2 upper rad clips that hold it in.

if it was in a bad enough hit it could have shifted the sub frame, and that may be throwing it out. depending on what kind of alignment machine the place has it might not be able to detect it.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

The stealership that did the alignment said that they didn't see any signs of damage on any of the suspension components. Regardless, I'll take it somewhere reputable and have it checked out.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

Update

I loosened up the passenger side strut at the knuckle to see if I could tip it out a little due to the camber being a little too negative. It seemed to help a little, but I really didn't get a chance to drive it. Unfortunately when I had the wheel off I realized there was a nail in the tire. Took it to Goodyear in the morning. They fixed it, but scratched my wheel in the process. They had to send my wheel off to get it refinished - I think I might get it back tomorrow. I'll drive the car a while and see if it fixed the alignment any.

Strangest thing about all of this....tire wear is perfect. One would think it would be a little uneven.