7th Gen Performance Specs
03-20-2008, 03:29 PM
#82
LOL i remember when ever one was messing with alicious in the 4th gen forums that was soooo much fun...
I don't care what anyone says the cvt dosent pull on the top end that much, but i guess its for the majority of the people that buys and enjoys cvt's for what they are.
I don't care what anyone says the cvt dosent pull on the top end that much, but i guess its for the majority of the people that buys and enjoys cvt's for what they are.
03-20-2008, 04:25 PM
#83
Lets see. Hope you are right.
Nissan was offering $2500 incentives on the Maxima and $500 on the Altima during most parts of 2007 and 2008. That includes the Altima 3.5 V6 which is comparable to the Maxima, just a little smaller. I guess that difference is not because "they're using the VQ in enough vehicles now that the cost of producing it is much lesser overall. They're just passing on the savings."
Nissan was offering $2500 incentives on the Maxima and $500 on the Altima during most parts of 2007 and 2008. That includes the Altima 3.5 V6 which is comparable to the Maxima, just a little smaller. I guess that difference is not because "they're using the VQ in enough vehicles now that the cost of producing it is much lesser overall. They're just passing on the savings."
My point is, a newly released car can have more features standard as an older generation for the same price. Same can go for how a particular model year vehicle can be the same price yet with each passing year before a refresh more of the options are thrown in standard. There's more to it but i'm oversimplifying it for arguments sake.
03-20-2008, 05:42 PM
#84
NINE-time Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 680
03-20-2008, 07:17 PM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
Those decrying Nissan's use of the '4DSC' with this car must understand that a HUGE part of '4DSC' is in performance and handling. I have a strong feeling those are the areas in Which Nissan has made the biggest gains with the 7th gen Maxima.
For instance, I will bet the torque steer is either gone or almost undetectable. I will bet the steering rack is stronger and tighter, with no 'shimmy'. I will bet the braking will have less vibration. I will bet the struts are more reliable and and other parts of the suspension are stronger. I will bet the turning radius is smaller. I will bet the lowered engine, wider stance and shorter wheelbase give this car a measureable improvement in slalom time.
If we pause and think about things, fixing those items would eliminate most of the problems that kept the 6th gen from being a truly wonderful performer. If those areas are indeed fixed, we may have an outstanding 4DSC arriving at our dealers in just three months.
I certainly feel those already decrying the 7th gen either don't understand the role of the Maxima, or are making premature judgments on its performance.
For instance, I will bet the torque steer is either gone or almost undetectable. I will bet the steering rack is stronger and tighter, with no 'shimmy'. I will bet the braking will have less vibration. I will bet the struts are more reliable and and other parts of the suspension are stronger. I will bet the turning radius is smaller. I will bet the lowered engine, wider stance and shorter wheelbase give this car a measureable improvement in slalom time.
If we pause and think about things, fixing those items would eliminate most of the problems that kept the 6th gen from being a truly wonderful performer. If those areas are indeed fixed, we may have an outstanding 4DSC arriving at our dealers in just three months.
I certainly feel those already decrying the 7th gen either don't understand the role of the Maxima, or are making premature judgments on its performance.
03-20-2008, 07:42 PM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 586
Those decrying Nissan's use of the '4DSC' with this car must understand that a HUGE part of '4DSC' is in performance and handling. I have a strong feeling those are the areas in Which Nissan has made the biggest gains with the 7th gen Maxima.
For instance, I will bet the torque steer is either gone or almost undetectable. I will bet the steering rack is stronger and tighter, with no 'shimmy'. I will bet the braking will have less vibration. I will bet the struts are more reliable and and other parts of the suspension are stronger. I will bet the turning radius is smaller. I will bet the lowered engine, wider stance and shorter wheelbase give this car a measureable improvement in slalom time.
If we pause and think about things, fixing those items would eliminate most of the problems that kept the 6th gen from being a truly wonderful performer. If those areas are indeed fixed, we may have an outstanding 4DSC arriving at our dealers in just three months.
I certainly feel those already decrying the 7th gen either don't understand the role of the Maxima, or are making premature judgments on its performance.
For instance, I will bet the torque steer is either gone or almost undetectable. I will bet the steering rack is stronger and tighter, with no 'shimmy'. I will bet the braking will have less vibration. I will bet the struts are more reliable and and other parts of the suspension are stronger. I will bet the turning radius is smaller. I will bet the lowered engine, wider stance and shorter wheelbase give this car a measureable improvement in slalom time.
If we pause and think about things, fixing those items would eliminate most of the problems that kept the 6th gen from being a truly wonderful performer. If those areas are indeed fixed, we may have an outstanding 4DSC arriving at our dealers in just three months.
I certainly feel those already decrying the 7th gen either don't understand the role of the Maxima, or are making premature judgments on its performance.
i second that if you read the improvement they have made on this car it will be a beast. it has the power steering out of the new 370z sports suspension 19in wheels. wider track and shorter. alot of people here need to just refraine from complaining about performance when no one has tested it. and also read the press release if what they are say is tru this is like the gt-r baby brother. Nissan want this to be the 4dsc and tested this car on the same track as the gt-r. i'm sure the sports car they looked up to when creating the new maxima was the GT-R. the maxima and the GT-r will be hitting the showroom at the same time. walk into nissan in the summer and say you was a sports car they will be like 2 or 4 door
03-21-2008, 05:53 AM
#87
The car is great for people who like it, doesnt do anything for me...im probably going to a TL or RL 09...awd...cant beat that and with a way better look and numbers and etc etc...fully loaded 09 max will run what 37 or 38k? I think its just sad the design team has no innovated ability to create something different from its own company infiniti. Just because its 09 make a difference in at LEAST the appearance of the car. They have and will loose more saless I believe until they really think about a different style all together imho
03-21-2008, 09:48 AM
#89
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 78
03-21-2008, 09:56 AM
#90
Who wants to bet that this "sports sedan" will still have single piston brakes up front? I would really love to see a change in that department, but I don't see it coming. All of the new body-style 6MT TLs have 4-pot brembos up front, not even the type s. Even the old SE-R sentras (02+) had brembos.
03-21-2008, 10:49 AM
#91
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 5,432
God, some people are stupid.
"I want the maxima to be a 300+ HP RWD sport's car!!"
Seriously, how ignorant can one be? What light has been saying is correct. The maxima has been and will continue to be a quick, decent handling, FWD car. The fact that nissan brought this vehicle down in size from the previous generation shows that they want to keep it sporty. SPORTY is not the same as SPORT'S CAR. You want a RWD sedan? Buy a G35. They offer a 6-speed too. You want a 6-speed FWD sedan? Buy an altima. You want a comfortable cruiser that's quick, handles alright, and has every option you should ever need? Buy the maxima. Simple as that.
Oh, and I've said this before but I'll say it again: those harping on the CVT have never driven one. They react much quicker than any auto I've ever driven, and are excellent off the line. They're smoother and more responsive than most conventional autos. I don't see a problem with them just offering this...Most people don't know how to use them is all.
"I want the maxima to be a 300+ HP RWD sport's car!!"
Seriously, how ignorant can one be? What light has been saying is correct. The maxima has been and will continue to be a quick, decent handling, FWD car. The fact that nissan brought this vehicle down in size from the previous generation shows that they want to keep it sporty. SPORTY is not the same as SPORT'S CAR. You want a RWD sedan? Buy a G35. They offer a 6-speed too. You want a 6-speed FWD sedan? Buy an altima. You want a comfortable cruiser that's quick, handles alright, and has every option you should ever need? Buy the maxima. Simple as that.
Oh, and I've said this before but I'll say it again: those harping on the CVT have never driven one. They react much quicker than any auto I've ever driven, and are excellent off the line. They're smoother and more responsive than most conventional autos. I don't see a problem with them just offering this...Most people don't know how to use them is all.
Last edited by LA02MAX; 03-21-2008 at 10:53 AM.
03-21-2008, 01:00 PM
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
jcalabria - Thanks for keeping this thread balanced as far as the CVT is concerned. Those preferring manual have a point in that a manual has traditionally been more fun to drive. But the reality is that rising fuel prices and MPG requirements will soon leave the manual behind. It will eventually be phased out of virtually all mass-produced sedans as CVT improvements will soon make it clearly more fuel-efficient than the manual.
There is also practicality. The population in the U.S. continues to grow, and urban congestion continues to sprawl further and further out from all metropolitan areas. The last time I drove my 5 speed Datsun 200SX to work in Atlanta (summer 1984), I counted the times I had to shift, and it was over 1,000 times each way. Shifting on a winding mountain road is one thing. Shifting fifty times to go one block at an average 3 MPH is considerably less exciting.
You are absolutely correct in that driving the CVT is an aquired skill. Nissan is giving us four ways to use the CVT in the 7th gen Maxima, and those who are unwilling to learn how to best use the CVT are tying themselves to the past.
Yes, I long for the days of over fifty years ago, when I lived in the desert of southern Arizona and could drive on deserted highways, shift as I pleased, and never see another vehicle, much less a traffic light. But, for over 99 percent of us, those days are essentially over. The future is here, and we either adjust and accept it or become dinosaurs.
There is also practicality. The population in the U.S. continues to grow, and urban congestion continues to sprawl further and further out from all metropolitan areas. The last time I drove my 5 speed Datsun 200SX to work in Atlanta (summer 1984), I counted the times I had to shift, and it was over 1,000 times each way. Shifting on a winding mountain road is one thing. Shifting fifty times to go one block at an average 3 MPH is considerably less exciting.
You are absolutely correct in that driving the CVT is an aquired skill. Nissan is giving us four ways to use the CVT in the 7th gen Maxima, and those who are unwilling to learn how to best use the CVT are tying themselves to the past.
Yes, I long for the days of over fifty years ago, when I lived in the desert of southern Arizona and could drive on deserted highways, shift as I pleased, and never see another vehicle, much less a traffic light. But, for over 99 percent of us, those days are essentially over. The future is here, and we either adjust and accept it or become dinosaurs.
03-21-2008, 01:10 PM
#93
jcalabria - Thanks for keeping this thread balanced as far as the CVT is concerned. Those preferring manual have a point in that a manual has traditionally been more fun to drive. But the reality is that rising fuel prices and MPG requirements will soon leave the manual behind. It will eventually be phased out of virtually all mass-produced sedans as CVT improvements will soon make it clearly more fuel-efficient than the manual.
There is also practicality. The population in the U.S. continues to grow, and urban congestion continues to sprawl further and further out from all metropolitan areas. The last time I drove my 5 speed Datsun 200SX to work in Atlanta (summer 1984), I counted the times I had to shift, and it was over 1,000 times each way. Shifting on a winding mountain road is one thing. Shifting fifty times to go one block at an average 3 MPH is considerably less exciting.
You are absolutely correct in that driving the CVT is an aquired skill. Nissan is giving us four ways to use the CVT in the 7th gen Maxima, and those who are unwilling to learn how to best use the CVT are tying themselves to the past.
Yes, I long for the days of over fifty years ago, when I lived in the desert of southern Arizona and could drive on deserted highways, shift as I pleased, and never see another vehicle, much less a traffic light. But, for over 99 percent of us, those days are essentially over. The future is here, and we either adjust and accept it or become dinosaurs.
There is also practicality. The population in the U.S. continues to grow, and urban congestion continues to sprawl further and further out from all metropolitan areas. The last time I drove my 5 speed Datsun 200SX to work in Atlanta (summer 1984), I counted the times I had to shift, and it was over 1,000 times each way. Shifting on a winding mountain road is one thing. Shifting fifty times to go one block at an average 3 MPH is considerably less exciting.
You are absolutely correct in that driving the CVT is an aquired skill. Nissan is giving us four ways to use the CVT in the 7th gen Maxima, and those who are unwilling to learn how to best use the CVT are tying themselves to the past.
Yes, I long for the days of over fifty years ago, when I lived in the desert of southern Arizona and could drive on deserted highways, shift as I pleased, and never see another vehicle, much less a traffic light. But, for over 99 percent of us, those days are essentially over. The future is here, and we either adjust and accept it or become dinosaurs.
03-21-2008, 03:32 PM
#94
lol ntl620..first off welcome to maxima.org
second off yes that car you just posted is about 10 times just on the exterior design better then the max. It's not really wow but definitly better then the ex design of the new max.
Did you even see the specs on the RL or any interior pics?
Again the RL anyway is a different beast but for the extra 8k(150 extra a month on a loan)its definitly IMO worth it.
second off yes that car you just posted is about 10 times just on the exterior design better then the max. It's not really wow but definitly better then the ex design of the new max.
Did you even see the specs on the RL or any interior pics?
Again the RL anyway is a different beast but for the extra 8k(150 extra a month on a loan)its definitly IMO worth it.
03-21-2008, 04:39 PM
#95
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Manhattan Beach, Ca / Dallas, Tx
Posts: 3,751
I see the "zomg it's not RWD" complaints coming out.
The Maxima has always been a sporty family car. How many people wanted a Camaro or some other sportscar but their wife made them get a Taurus or something like that? I believe the Maxima is a compromise between a family sedan and a sports car. It can be used as a family car,(The 350Z can't ever be a family car unless it's a two person family.)it is still quick and sporty, it handles well, it's refined. This is a great compromise between the wife and husband if one of them wants a car that is quick and sporty and the other one wants a family car. One of the best things about that car is even though it is FWD(which is safer for a family in inclimate weather anyways.) it still has that sporty characteristic. That is what I think the Maxima is for.
We already have the 350Z, that's our sportscar. Why should the Maxima tread on its territory when the Maxima already plays a very important role in Nissan? You wanted the Maxima seperated from the Altima? You have it with this generation. you can't say that the engines have the same power.
Let's stop dissing this car and actually wait until it arrives at a dealership before we make up our minds.
The Maxima has always been a sporty family car. How many people wanted a Camaro or some other sportscar but their wife made them get a Taurus or something like that? I believe the Maxima is a compromise between a family sedan and a sports car. It can be used as a family car,(The 350Z can't ever be a family car unless it's a two person family.)it is still quick and sporty, it handles well, it's refined. This is a great compromise between the wife and husband if one of them wants a car that is quick and sporty and the other one wants a family car. One of the best things about that car is even though it is FWD(which is safer for a family in inclimate weather anyways.) it still has that sporty characteristic. That is what I think the Maxima is for.
We already have the 350Z, that's our sportscar. Why should the Maxima tread on its territory when the Maxima already plays a very important role in Nissan? You wanted the Maxima seperated from the Altima? You have it with this generation. you can't say that the engines have the same power.
Let's stop dissing this car and actually wait until it arrives at a dealership before we make up our minds.
03-21-2008, 09:55 PM
#96
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 151
03-21-2008, 09:57 PM
#97
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 151
I went to NYAS today and see it in person. I must admit it looks better in person, but I am still not thrilled with certain things. The rear (and every other car manufacturer) has those Camry taillights that just look out of place. Still looks too angular to me. Interior, from what I could see, looked "sporty." It has a good presence too it though (though the P.T. Barnum NYAS effects could be part of that 
)
)
03-22-2008, 09:18 AM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
I'm interested in this "no torqure steer" thing. 290 horsepower though a FWD drivetrain and no torque steer? Very interesting... i hope it's true.. I would also like to see a MT at least OFFERED to us... they don't even give us the option. They're just saying like... "CVT is better. Take it and like it." Boo... I don't like that.
One thing I do like however, is that it finally has more power than an altima!! Maximas have had way more HP than altimas for years... so much so, that it wasn't even a competitor. But when altimas started with that 3.5 V6, they suddenly rose to the levels of maximas, and even surpassed the maxima in 2007! Since when is a freakin altima faster than a maxima!? I didn't like that one bit. But now I'm happy that that maxima once again prevails over the altima in HP numbers, at least. At 6.2 seconds 0-60, is it any faster though?
One thing I do like however, is that it finally has more power than an altima!! Maximas have had way more HP than altimas for years... so much so, that it wasn't even a competitor. But when altimas started with that 3.5 V6, they suddenly rose to the levels of maximas, and even surpassed the maxima in 2007! Since when is a freakin altima faster than a maxima!? I didn't like that one bit. But now I'm happy that that maxima once again prevails over the altima in HP numbers, at least. At 6.2 seconds 0-60, is it any faster though?
03-22-2008, 09:48 AM
#100
NINE-time Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 680
03-22-2008, 09:59 AM
#101
NINE-time Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 680
More than anything, the lack of transmission choice comes down to the high certification costs for the very small overall percentage of Max's that would have actually had an MT. Each drivetrain combination needs to go through the certification process independently. Altima sales are much higher overall and even though the MT percenatge in Altima sales is also small, there are enough in total volume to warrant the certification process.
03-22-2008, 12:56 PM
#103
what does it matter if a new gen Altima has a few models with slightly more power than an old Maxima? like you really thought the next Maxima would not increase?
If it's such a problem then why do so few 3.5 Altimas get sold? it is only made for the few that don't want to pay for a Maxima, but get talked into upgrading their Altima and still spend about the same.
Nissan has kept the Altima in its place just fine. the 2.5 is bread and butter.
If it's such a problem then why do so few 3.5 Altimas get sold? it is only made for the few that don't want to pay for a Maxima, but get talked into upgrading their Altima and still spend about the same.
Nissan has kept the Altima in its place just fine. the 2.5 is bread and butter.
03-22-2008, 03:34 PM
#104
Probably a sliding single caliper design which in theory works the same as a fixed 2-caliper set-up.
03-22-2008, 05:12 PM
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 333
There is nothing wrong with the cvt trans. With 290hp on the cvt this car will be a beast The 2.5 altima with 175hp and cvt has extremely quick acceleration i had to think twice like damn this feels quicker than my car and its not even a v6 and it only has 175hp. The G35 coupe which i want with the conventional tranny feels a little sluggish compared to the 2.5 altima off the line ofcourse the g would win the race but i can see this maxima beating a stock 03-04 maybe 05-06 coupe in a race. And most people aren't going to leave the car at 290hp (those who want more power) they are going modify and try to get all the power they can out of the engine its only 10hp away from 300hp which shouldn't be that difficult to reach once the mods start coming out.And with the cvt in manual mode its so smooth and responsive to the shifts I thought it was a lot better than the manual in my 95 but thats just me. I guess alot of people havent driven on the cvt transmission its nothing like the autos we have now its bullet proof as a manual in manual mode and as an auto. And they are redoing the cvt just for the maxima on the cvt in manual mode the car wont shift unless u shift also I just like not having to downshift when coming to a red light but you can shift up and down any other time while your driving and it feels the same as manual minus the picky clutch. In manual or automatic modeI think this new max would beat any of our current gens manual tranny's isn't that good progress.This engine along with the cvt would probably beat out many of the manuals in its class 4 doors and 2 doors.That is a big improvement I will certainly be getting a testdrive and looking into getting an 09 maxima.
Last edited by Dynasty47x1; 03-22-2008 at 05:37 PM.
03-22-2008, 05:43 PM
#107
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 607
I'm interested in this "no torqure steer" thing. 290 horsepower though a FWD drivetrain and no torque steer? Very interesting... i hope it's true.. I would also like to see a MT at least OFFERED to us... they don't even give us the option. They're just saying like... "CVT is better. Take it and like it." Boo... I don't like that.
One thing I do like however, is that it finally has more power than an altima!! Maximas have had way more HP than altimas for years... so much so, that it wasn't even a competitor. But when altimas started with that 3.5 V6, they suddenly rose to the levels of maximas, and even surpassed the maxima in 2007! Since when is a freakin altima faster than a maxima!? I didn't like that one bit. But now I'm happy that that maxima once again prevails over the altima in HP numbers, at least. At 6.2 seconds 0-60, is it any faster though?
One thing I do like however, is that it finally has more power than an altima!! Maximas have had way more HP than altimas for years... so much so, that it wasn't even a competitor. But when altimas started with that 3.5 V6, they suddenly rose to the levels of maximas, and even surpassed the maxima in 2007! Since when is a freakin altima faster than a maxima!? I didn't like that one bit. But now I'm happy that that maxima once again prevails over the altima in HP numbers, at least. At 6.2 seconds 0-60, is it any faster though?
With the 09 Maxima, there is a new reason for a heartache. As far as I know, the Maxima has always been larger than the Altima. The 09 Maxima has 96.2 cu ft of interior passenger volume (http://nissan.iconicweb.com/assets/s...ifications.pdf). It is smaller than the Altima (100.7 cu ft) as well as the G35 sedan (w/o moonroof 99 cu ft, with moonroof 96.5 cu ft). The 08 Maxima had 103.6 cu ft w/o moonroof while the 08 Avalon 106.9 cu ft.
I am sure that will cause problems for many consumers who are used to seeing and believing the Maxima to be larger than the Altima.
Last edited by bb700092; 03-22-2008 at 05:48 PM.
03-22-2008, 07:52 PM
#108
Nightmare = Reality
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Waterford, MI
Posts: 718
There is A LOT of naysayers and people who hate the CVT. I am even one of those people. I would MUCH prefer a well-sorted multispeed auto so those paddles actually mean something, (in fact, I was hoping GM would get a tech agreement because i wanted a VQ35HR on their new 6-speed auto) However....
I owned a 5.5gen with a 4AT, i drove an 06 5AT, and an 07 CVT, and of the three, the CVT felt best easily. acceleration was deceptively smooth and fast, and Nissan had done a wonderful job tuning the CVT in the maxima to refrain from "motorboating" all the time. It DID feel like it was constantly slipping a clutch though because of holding certain rev ranges all the time (very WIERD initially) but clear as day, the car would rush up to speed almost like it was an electric motor (instant-on acceleration, it actually hurt my chest a little from the g forces). the 5AT felt CLUNKY, while my 4AT with it's 100K on it felt smoother than the 5AT, but nowhere near the sophistication of the CVT. I have to give them credit for that. very impressive.
The CVT has already been proven not to increase fuel economy. I forget my source, but they were provided a Versa CVT, and a Versa with a mutlispeed auto for testing. the CVT-equipped model was significantly faster, especially in midrange acceleration, but was averaging 2-3mpg LESS compared to the multispeed model. The way a CVT works actually illustrates this too. Off the line, you're taking off the line at the optimum torque output for the engine, as fast as it can rev there. If you keep it floored, the engine vs the CVT will hold itself in that optimum range while changing the ratios to keep you going faster and faster. this is AWESOME from a performance standpoint. from a passion and fuel consumption standpoint, this is blegh. it means that you're almost always revving to a 5000rpm range for everything, and that eats fuel. You also do not get that wonderful vocal range as the engine goes from a burble up to a glorious snarl as it winds up. I've ridden in my cousin's murano, and it doesnt do the same at all. the 6.5 they actually claimed they revised the programming to more orient it towards sporting tastes, and to some extend I believe them with that test drive i did.
Aside from the sound, I think the CVT is good. Do i want one? not really. The ratios may be infinite, but that's within a specified range, which means that, unlike an "overdrive" cog to swap into for better fuel consumption, the CVT gets to the end of the range and you're stuck. for better off-the-line acceleration the ratios have to be biased downward, especially for the weight of the recent Maxes. or, they could move the range upward, but to get that off the line well, they have to use shorter ratios in the drivetrain(in a RWD this would be referred to rear-end gear) but that ultimately thwarts the high ratio on the CVT...
Ultimately though, I don't think It'll hold me back too badly. I'm at least a little curious as to how "shifting a CVT" is going to work out.
I owned a 5.5gen with a 4AT, i drove an 06 5AT, and an 07 CVT, and of the three, the CVT felt best easily. acceleration was deceptively smooth and fast, and Nissan had done a wonderful job tuning the CVT in the maxima to refrain from "motorboating" all the time. It DID feel like it was constantly slipping a clutch though because of holding certain rev ranges all the time (very WIERD initially) but clear as day, the car would rush up to speed almost like it was an electric motor (instant-on acceleration, it actually hurt my chest a little from the g forces). the 5AT felt CLUNKY, while my 4AT with it's 100K on it felt smoother than the 5AT, but nowhere near the sophistication of the CVT. I have to give them credit for that. very impressive.
The CVT has already been proven not to increase fuel economy. I forget my source, but they were provided a Versa CVT, and a Versa with a mutlispeed auto for testing. the CVT-equipped model was significantly faster, especially in midrange acceleration, but was averaging 2-3mpg LESS compared to the multispeed model. The way a CVT works actually illustrates this too. Off the line, you're taking off the line at the optimum torque output for the engine, as fast as it can rev there. If you keep it floored, the engine vs the CVT will hold itself in that optimum range while changing the ratios to keep you going faster and faster. this is AWESOME from a performance standpoint. from a passion and fuel consumption standpoint, this is blegh. it means that you're almost always revving to a 5000rpm range for everything, and that eats fuel. You also do not get that wonderful vocal range as the engine goes from a burble up to a glorious snarl as it winds up. I've ridden in my cousin's murano, and it doesnt do the same at all. the 6.5 they actually claimed they revised the programming to more orient it towards sporting tastes, and to some extend I believe them with that test drive i did.
Aside from the sound, I think the CVT is good. Do i want one? not really. The ratios may be infinite, but that's within a specified range, which means that, unlike an "overdrive" cog to swap into for better fuel consumption, the CVT gets to the end of the range and you're stuck. for better off-the-line acceleration the ratios have to be biased downward, especially for the weight of the recent Maxes. or, they could move the range upward, but to get that off the line well, they have to use shorter ratios in the drivetrain(in a RWD this would be referred to rear-end gear) but that ultimately thwarts the high ratio on the CVT...
Ultimately though, I don't think It'll hold me back too badly. I'm at least a little curious as to how "shifting a CVT" is going to work out.
03-22-2008, 08:02 PM
#109
Nightmare = Reality
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Waterford, MI
Posts: 718
I bought a 2007 Maxima after test driving a 2007 Altima V6 (both CVT). The Altima had 270hp while the Maxima 255hp. Test driving both for about 20 mins each at two different dealerships, I did not feel any difference in power but the Maxima felt more comfortable and upscale. But I wished somewhere in my heart that the Maxima had more hp than the Altima, at least on paper. Just like you, I am happy with the figures now. But still don't know whether that will make any noticable difference in everyday driving.
With the 09 Maxima, there is a new reason for a heartache. As far as I know, the Maxima has always been larger than the Altima. The 09 Maxima has 96.2 cu ft of interior passenger volume (http://nissan.iconicweb.com/assets/s...ifications.pdf). It is smaller than the Altima (100.7 cu ft) as well as the G35 sedan (w/o moonroof 99 cu ft, with moonroof 96.5 cu ft). The 08 Maxima had 103.6 cu ft w/o moonroof while the 08 Avalon 106.9 cu ft.
I am sure that will cause problems for many consumers who are used to seeing and believing the Maxima to be larger than the Altima.
With the 09 Maxima, there is a new reason for a heartache. As far as I know, the Maxima has always been larger than the Altima. The 09 Maxima has 96.2 cu ft of interior passenger volume (http://nissan.iconicweb.com/assets/s...ifications.pdf). It is smaller than the Altima (100.7 cu ft) as well as the G35 sedan (w/o moonroof 99 cu ft, with moonroof 96.5 cu ft). The 08 Maxima had 103.6 cu ft w/o moonroof while the 08 Avalon 106.9 cu ft.
I am sure that will cause problems for many consumers who are used to seeing and believing the Maxima to be larger than the Altima.
...yeah, but the quality is lower. "Yeah"
the Maxima is a premium sports sedan. the Altima is the bread-n-butter family car. I would be happy with a slightly smaller, lighter car. It makes it feel like it was built to be an exclusive club for a sporty driver and his friends that didnt mind slipping into the more intimate cabin.
03-22-2008, 08:04 PM
#110
Ive driven a cvt tranny before from zero to hundred, seems to me the cars ecu cuts fuel at about 80mph. The rpms dont sound like theyre climbing as much anymore and the exhaust sound goes down a few decibels. Try it next time your in a cvt car youll see, or should i say hear.
03-22-2008, 08:26 PM
#111
NINE-time Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 680
There is A LOT of naysayers and people who hate the CVT. I am even one of those people. I would MUCH prefer a well-sorted multispeed auto so those paddles actually mean something, (in fact, I was hoping GM would get a tech agreement because i wanted a VQ35HR on their new 6-speed auto) However....
I owned a 5.5gen with a 4AT, i drove an 06 5AT, and an 07 CVT, and of the three, the CVT felt best easily. acceleration was deceptively smooth and fast, and Nissan had done a wonderful job tuning the CVT in the maxima to refrain from "motorboating" all the time. It DID feel like it was constantly slipping a clutch though because of holding certain rev ranges all the time (very WIERD initially) but clear as day, the car would rush up to speed almost like it was an electric motor (instant-on acceleration, it actually hurt my chest a little from the g forces). the 5AT felt CLUNKY, while my 4AT with it's 100K on it felt smoother than the 5AT, but nowhere near the sophistication of the CVT. I have to give them credit for that. very impressive.
The CVT has already been proven not to increase fuel economy. I forget my source, but they were provided a Versa CVT, and a Versa with a mutlispeed auto for testing. the CVT-equipped model was significantly faster, especially in midrange acceleration, but was averaging 2-3mpg LESS compared to the multispeed model. The way a CVT works actually illustrates this too. Off the line, you're taking off the line at the optimum torque output for the engine, as fast as it can rev there. If you keep it floored, the engine vs the CVT will hold itself in that optimum range while changing the ratios to keep you going faster and faster. this is AWESOME from a performance standpoint. from a passion and fuel consumption standpoint, this is blegh. it means that you're almost always revving to a 5000rpm range for everything, and that eats fuel. You also do not get that wonderful vocal range as the engine goes from a burble up to a glorious snarl as it winds up. I've ridden in my cousin's murano, and it doesnt do the same at all. the 6.5 they actually claimed they revised the programming to more orient it towards sporting tastes, and to some extend I believe them with that test drive i did.
Aside from the sound, I think the CVT is good. Do i want one? not really. The ratios may be infinite, but that's within a specified range, which means that, unlike an "overdrive" cog to swap into for better fuel consumption, the CVT gets to the end of the range and you're stuck. for better off-the-line acceleration the ratios have to be biased downward, especially for the weight of the recent Maxes. or, they could move the range upward, but to get that off the line well, they have to use shorter ratios in the drivetrain(in a RWD this would be referred to rear-end gear) but that ultimately thwarts the high ratio on the CVT...
Ultimately though, I don't think It'll hold me back too badly. I'm at least a little curious as to how "shifting a CVT" is going to work out.
I owned a 5.5gen with a 4AT, i drove an 06 5AT, and an 07 CVT, and of the three, the CVT felt best easily. acceleration was deceptively smooth and fast, and Nissan had done a wonderful job tuning the CVT in the maxima to refrain from "motorboating" all the time. It DID feel like it was constantly slipping a clutch though because of holding certain rev ranges all the time (very WIERD initially) but clear as day, the car would rush up to speed almost like it was an electric motor (instant-on acceleration, it actually hurt my chest a little from the g forces). the 5AT felt CLUNKY, while my 4AT with it's 100K on it felt smoother than the 5AT, but nowhere near the sophistication of the CVT. I have to give them credit for that. very impressive.
The CVT has already been proven not to increase fuel economy. I forget my source, but they were provided a Versa CVT, and a Versa with a mutlispeed auto for testing. the CVT-equipped model was significantly faster, especially in midrange acceleration, but was averaging 2-3mpg LESS compared to the multispeed model. The way a CVT works actually illustrates this too. Off the line, you're taking off the line at the optimum torque output for the engine, as fast as it can rev there. If you keep it floored, the engine vs the CVT will hold itself in that optimum range while changing the ratios to keep you going faster and faster. this is AWESOME from a performance standpoint. from a passion and fuel consumption standpoint, this is blegh. it means that you're almost always revving to a 5000rpm range for everything, and that eats fuel. You also do not get that wonderful vocal range as the engine goes from a burble up to a glorious snarl as it winds up. I've ridden in my cousin's murano, and it doesnt do the same at all. the 6.5 they actually claimed they revised the programming to more orient it towards sporting tastes, and to some extend I believe them with that test drive i did.
Aside from the sound, I think the CVT is good. Do i want one? not really. The ratios may be infinite, but that's within a specified range, which means that, unlike an "overdrive" cog to swap into for better fuel consumption, the CVT gets to the end of the range and you're stuck. for better off-the-line acceleration the ratios have to be biased downward, especially for the weight of the recent Maxes. or, they could move the range upward, but to get that off the line well, they have to use shorter ratios in the drivetrain(in a RWD this would be referred to rear-end gear) but that ultimately thwarts the high ratio on the CVT...
Ultimately though, I don't think It'll hold me back too badly. I'm at least a little curious as to how "shifting a CVT" is going to work out.
Regarding the "range" of ratios available, the CVT has a larger ratio spread than either the 5AT or the 6MT:
Compared to the 5AT, it has BOTH a shorter "1st" gear and a taller overdrive. I do believe that Nissan's biggest shortcoming in the 6.5G CVT is in the high speed shift mapping - at higher speeds it gets more conservative. Although this can be manually overridden, I hope that this has been addressed in the 7G programming.
As far as fuel mileage, when driven with a lighter throttle, the CVT can be a huge improvement in city/suburban driving. Where it falls somewhat short is in steady-state highway cruising... top gear cruising is top gear cruising for any type of transmission... having more ratios availabe doesnt mean anything if your not using them. The CVTs parasitic losses are not offset in this scenario, so the CVT suffers in efficiency in this mode. For me, 99% of my driving is city/suburban. My '07 VQ35/CVT runs about 10% better mileage than my '03 VQ35/4AT did - same driver, same routes.
Last edited by jcalabria; 03-22-2008 at 08:43 PM.
03-22-2008, 08:28 PM
#112
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northen Ky, by Cincinnati
Posts: 213
CVT Reply
I have driven a Maxima with the CVT and I find it very annoying & a bit droning. The day I decide to get an automatic transmission, which a CVT is, will be the day I purchase a Crown Victoria. Tons more room, equally as fun to drive as any other automatic, and a lot cheaper than a loaded Max. Auto-Sticks are for people can't drive real stick shifts.
Holy Hockey Pucks, even Honda is putting a 6-Speed in the Accord. Get with the program Nissan !!!
Holy Hockey Pucks, even Honda is putting a 6-Speed in the Accord. Get with the program Nissan !!!
03-22-2008, 08:49 PM
#113
NINE-time Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 680
Crown Victoria... equally as fun to drive as a Mack truck
Last edited by jcalabria; 03-22-2008 at 08:59 PM.
03-22-2008, 09:14 PM
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 607
You've obviously never been in a 5th gen then. the 01-06 Altima was definately larger than the 5th gens. I've lived with my 03 for a number of years, and it was always short on headroom in the back as well as shoulder room. I sat in the Altima with some of my 6ft+ 300lb friends and the first words out of their mouth "hey, it's roomier in here than your car"
...yeah, but the quality is lower. "Yeah"
the Maxima is a premium sports sedan. the Altima is the bread-n-butter family car. I would be happy with a slightly smaller, lighter car. It makes it feel like it was built to be an exclusive club for a sporty driver and his friends that didnt mind slipping into the more intimate cabin.
...yeah, but the quality is lower. "Yeah"
the Maxima is a premium sports sedan. the Altima is the bread-n-butter family car. I would be happy with a slightly smaller, lighter car. It makes it feel like it was built to be an exclusive club for a sporty driver and his friends that didnt mind slipping into the more intimate cabin.
Edit: I checked the numbers. The 2003 Maxima had 102.5 cu ft while the 2006 Altima had 102.8 cu ft of interior volume. So yes, you are right. But the difference was very minimal. Between the 09 Maxima and 08 Altima, the difference is considerable (4.5 cu ft).
Last edited by bb700092; 03-22-2008 at 09:36 PM.
03-22-2008, 09:24 PM
#116
I have driven a Maxima with the CVT and I find it very annoying & a bit droning. The day I decide to get an automatic transmission, which a CVT is, will be the day I purchase a Crown Victoria. Tons more room, equally as fun to drive as any other automatic, and a lot cheaper than a loaded Max. Auto-Sticks are for people can't drive real stick shifts.
Holy Hockey Pucks, even Honda is putting a 6-Speed in the Accord. Get with the program Nissan !!!
Holy Hockey Pucks, even Honda is putting a 6-Speed in the Accord. Get with the program Nissan !!!
03-23-2008, 05:44 AM
#117
If Nissan's plans of trimming their models are true, then the 7th gen has become the first guinea pig. Slimming down models and making them more lightweight has recently been Nissan's plans for helping solve the issue of how to get better mileage out of vehicles.
Edit: Actually, that's not true, the Altima was the first guinea pig when they trimmed it down for the 06-08 versus the 02-05.
03-23-2008, 05:46 AM
#118
The Maxima is no longer a class competitor to the Accord - that's the Altima's job.
The Altima has a coupe, so does the Accord. The Altima comes with a 4cyl and v6, so does the Accord. The Altima has an auto/CVT and a 6spd, so does the Accord. The only difference is you can get a 6spd V6 Altima sedan, but you can't get a similarly equipped Accord sedan.
I say, Honda needs to get with the program and offer one.
And also make a model to compete with the Maxima.
03-23-2008, 06:57 AM
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 607
The new Altima does have more room than a 5th gen, it may not be much on paper but it's quite noticeable once you're inside. I believe the 6th gen has 103.x cu.ft., so if anything the 7th gen should still be larger inside than a 5th gen while retaining slimmer and trimmer outside dimensions. (be reminded that the 2009 sits lower by about an inch, is shorter and wider than a 6th gen).
If Nissan's plans of trimming their models are true, then the 7th gen has become the first guinea pig. Slimming down models and making them more lightweight has recently been Nissan's plans for helping solve the issue of how to get better mileage out of vehicles.
Edit: Actually, that's not true, the Altima was the first guinea pig when they trimmed it down for the 06-08 versus the 02-05.
If Nissan's plans of trimming their models are true, then the 7th gen has become the first guinea pig. Slimming down models and making them more lightweight has recently been Nissan's plans for helping solve the issue of how to get better mileage out of vehicles.
Edit: Actually, that's not true, the Altima was the first guinea pig when they trimmed it down for the 06-08 versus the 02-05.
I used to think that one measure of luxury among other things is the available space in a sedan. And I was happy that I could get that around $30k. If you think Nissan reduced the size for better mpg, then I have to say that Avalon gets better mpg (at least EPA estimates) than the 6th gen Maxima even after being a bigger and heavier vehicle. And the 09 Maxima's mpg (Nissan's estimate) does not beat the Avalon's mpg either.
If you think Nissan did that for better handling/driving feel/sportiness, then I have a question for you. Nissan brought about some new developments in the 09 Maxima, such as use of lighter materials, new suspension, newly programmed CVT, paddle shifters, etc. just like the 07 Altima came with the new "D" platform, rearview camera, push button start, etc. When the next gen Altima comes out around 2011, it will get all the new things the 09 Maxima is coming with just like the 09 Maxima is getting the new "D" platform, rearview camera, push button start, etc. that the 07 Altima came with. In other words, every new gen vehicle comes with the most upto date technologies. It is not the case that since Altima is a lower priced sedan than the Maxima, it will be less upgraded than the Maxima. So in two years from 2009, we will have a better sedan in the new Altima than the 09 Maxima. It will have at least the same if not better handling/driving feel/sportiness compared to the 09 Maxima. With the introduction of the V6 in the Altima, there is virtually no difference between the Altima and the Maxima, except the name of the car. Toyota has kept a clear distinction between the Camry and Avalon but Nissan hasn't between the Altima and Maxima. Nissan might as well drop the Maxima or Altima V6 from its lineup.
Last edited by bb700092; 03-23-2008 at 07:03 AM.
03-23-2008, 07:06 AM
#120
You have good points, but put it this way, Nissan is at a "tween" stage right now from the process of moving the Maxima up-market, as such there will be some overlap.
However, Nissan has always said they'd bring the Maxima back, and with the '09 they have made good on the promise. It may have some features from the Altima, but the features you talk about are standard on nearly everything across the Nissan and Infiniti line. (It's akin to having keyless entries, climate control, rear a/c vents, power windows and such when they first came out... they may be standard across the line, but they are not what distinguishes each vehicle from the other -- think of the push button start, rearview camera, cvt as today's "given" rather than new technological gizmos).
The new Maxima does have a lot going for it that the Altima doesn't have. You may be right that in the next generation the Altima will surpass these features, but then the Maxima will again. And Nissan may very well introduce special features to the Maxima that will not be offered in the Altima any more.
In a model line-up's lifespan, there will always be overlaps as major changes are made. We are right in the midst of it now.
However, Nissan has always said they'd bring the Maxima back, and with the '09 they have made good on the promise. It may have some features from the Altima, but the features you talk about are standard on nearly everything across the Nissan and Infiniti line. (It's akin to having keyless entries, climate control, rear a/c vents, power windows and such when they first came out... they may be standard across the line, but they are not what distinguishes each vehicle from the other -- think of the push button start, rearview camera, cvt as today's "given" rather than new technological gizmos).
The new Maxima does have a lot going for it that the Altima doesn't have. You may be right that in the next generation the Altima will surpass these features, but then the Maxima will again. And Nissan may very well introduce special features to the Maxima that will not be offered in the Altima any more.
In a model line-up's lifespan, there will always be overlaps as major changes are made. We are right in the midst of it now.