This article on the Renalt also contains slight info about upcoming diesel engine for the 7th gen max
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/24/o...upe-in-cannes/

 

For those not wanting to skim the article:

 

dude holy crap that thing is guna scoot

 

331 ft-lb of torque? If the CVT survives that, then we should not hear another word here questioning its ability to handle lots of power.

Just as info (most here already know), the title on the initial post should have read 'Details on '10 Max Diesel.' There will be no diesel option for the 7th gen Maxima until the 2010 model year.

 

Hi, I'm new here. I've been checking out new cars online and I saw the new 2009 Maxima. My initial thought was "really nice looking car!" I can't wait to see it at the dealership.

This is a side note: To be honest, I've never been a fan of Nissan cars. I always thought they were plain, but the new Maxima has a bold new look. I started checking out Nissan's because I read Nissan is bringing the Cube to the states, and I want to find an economical family vehicle. While the Cube looks like it will get great gas mileage, it looks a little small and had very little cargo room for family road trips. I read they will be making a few changes to the Cube for the U.S., but unless they make it a little longer for luggage and maybe a tad wider I will keep looking for another family car.

Back to the Maxima, I am looking to get a new car in a year or so and for my car I want it to be good on gas too. I like the fact that they are going to put a diesel in the 2010 Maxima. I hope it will be simalar to the clean diesels that VW has in the Jetta? The diesel Jetta is suppose to get something like 35 mpg. So, hopefully the 2010 diesel Maxima will get around 30 mpg. Diesel cost more than gas, but in the long run I think it's a good approach to getting better mpg. I will wait for the 2010 Maxima to get the diesel.

 

only 235 horsepower though? that seems pretty low.. i'm sure it will fly off the line, but how about on the highway? i don't know much about diesel engines, but does 235 hp and 331 lb.-ft. of torque translate into faster than a 6th gen at least? i hope the maxima wouldn't be backsliding on the performance end.. i'm sure it would be making a come-up in gas mileage though

 

Thats fine, low hp is not a big deal. The diesel accord in Europe gets about 55mpg!!!!!!!!

I can't wait for all these diesels to come out. Rumors are for the Maxima, Camry, and Accord to get them. And then this will hopefully launch a diesel hybrid which should get uber gas mileage

 

to help you understand, diesel engines are used in semitrucks and trains because of their large amounts of power. yes hp alows you to go faster but I doubt that the diesel is being used to make the maxima faster in any way. if you have ever seen a tractor pull they are pulling a crap ton of weight but going super slow and still get super far with it thats because they have a ton of tq

For ex:
a semi truck will have somthing like 400h-600p but 1400-1900 tq yet they are very slow this is becasue they are diesel it's not an engine for speed.

 

The diesel Maxima should be comprable in speed to the gasoline Maxima. The reason diesel trucks are 'slow' in accelleration is because they are GEARED to be pulling a hundred thousand pounds from a dead stop. The diesel Maxima, however, will be geared for speed, and, with 331 ft-lbs of torque, should have no trouble accellerating very briskly.

It may be that the gasoline version may have an edge in initial accelleration, but we can't be sure until we see how Nissan gears it. I would bet, however, that if starting out climbing a grade, the diesel will out-accellerate the gasoline version; purely on raw torque.

When Nissan announced 17 months ago that the 2010 Maxima would have a diesel option, they emphasized it would be a new-generation, powerful, quiet, smokeless, low-odor engine they had developed with Renault. Most modern passenger car diesels bear little outward resemblance to those stinky rattlers found in diesel pickups.

 

diesel pick ups are not as slow as you are bringing them on to be... turbo lag off a stop is about the only "slow" part there is... and yes, gearing does have a part to play, and im sure does slow them down in that regard, but they are still fast... especially modded.

and they have a lot of room to grow hp/tq wise... ya cant put a chip on a gas and get another 150 hp at the push of a button...

 

Holy sh*t...if they come through with 331TQ for the US, that'd be amazing. 235HP is more than enough to pull a 3500lb car. I wonder if they'll make a diesel available with a 5AT or 7AT.

Are there any diesel cars out paired to CVTs?

 

gotya... thanx 4 the info.. but if it has a deisel engine that means it would use deisel fuel right? the higher gas mileage might be negated by the higher price of deisel fuel

 

Yes you would have to use diesel fuel. I think you would have to ask a someone who owns a diesel fueled car (Mercedes for example) about their driving habits and how far they travel between fill ups.

 

tell that to Audi & Peugeot

 

Bring on the diesels i dont mind them at all.

 

My dad owns a 86 Benz 300sdl that's a turbo diesel. He gets around 30mpg and about 500 miles per tank. And he only paid $1200 for it...

 

yeah, cause i noticed the price of diesel fuel today was $5.00 a gallon.. depending on what kind of gas mileage this new maxima is going to have, it might not save consumers any money

 

Careful there buddy... UK Gallons aren't the same as US Gallons...

 

Even if the 2010 diesel Maxima got 35-40 mpg that would still be awesome for a full size car.

 

not if you have to pay close to a dollar more per gallon compared to regular cars

 

I can see it already! Dual variable vane Turbos, a programmer, muffler delete, (Lets hope the find something better than a DPF), doulbe the hp and torque!

2010: Time to open a CVT repair shop!

Diesels historically produce max hp and torque much lower in the RPM range, and red line at 4-5 K. The latest common rail designs and variable vane turbos have taken a lot of the lag out of the picture.

My D-Max will scare you with my PPE programmer on Level 5 (about 225 flywheel hP above stock 310). There are daily driver diesel trucks out there with 800hp and more that get 18-20 mpg. That's in a 7200 lb truck. (google Nastygirl Diesel).

Let's just hope the performance end of smaller lighter, higher rpm diesels in cars are just as easy as a diesel to hop up! They are also more friendly to green house gas emissions if that is important to you.

 

A few years ago, when Nissan made the decision to have a diesel option with the 2010 Maxima, diesel was probably under $3 a gallon, and somewhat steady.

But, with diesel around $5 a gallon ($10 in Europe), and long-haul truckers everywhere screaming bloody murder, Nissan may well take a close look at the future.

If they do, they will realize that diesel (and gas) will only continue to increase in price as China and India double their petroleum demands every year. I think Nissan both lowers the total number of '09 Maximas it will produce from the planned 60K to 50K (making more Versas, Sentras, hybrid Altimas, etc, instead), and makes fewer Maximas with diesel than planned. They have already announced plans to stop making the Titan.

I see $10 a gallon for both gasoline and diesel here within the next four to five years, and I don't see it ever dropping back in any significant manner. A lot of folks are going to suffer severely until our behind-the-times auto manufacturers really get serious about getting away from petroleum-based fuels.

My wife and I have dreamed for decades of spending our twilight years touring our nation in a powerful and comfortable Maxima, visiting all the places we have read about and dreamed of seeing. But we find oueselves taking shorter and closer trips, trying to help conserve fuel. It may be that we will have to live out our dream at the 'next level.' They do have Maximas on cloud #9, don't they?

 

iirc 2nd gen had diesel option right?

 

BluFlame - It was gen 1.5 ('83 and '84) that had diesel versions available. My co-worker drove an '83 diesel Maxima for ten years.


edit - I owned two '85 Maximas, and drove one of them 206,000 miles before letting it go, and still see it around town sometimes. Had the diesel been offered on the Maxima in '85, I would have gotten one.

 

Man.. for a while iv been wanting the Jetta TDI...2006 + a huge forum for them... lots of aftermarket tuning... chips... etc...50mpg... seems like a great transportation vehicle...


if this maxima is going to be great... i might consider... i just really hope they have a manual transmission... thats all i want... and to work out the quirks..

the turning radius...
the rattling noise
the wind noise , road noise
****ty suspension , handling

all maxima problems.

 

Well, even if you have to pay $1 more per gallon you still are coming out ahead with the diesel. The pump by me has gas at $4.04 per gallon, and with the est. 19 mpg that comes to .23 cents per mile. Say the diesel get 29 mpg and at $1 more ($5.04) for diesel your cost per mile comes down to .17 cent per mile. If the 2010 diesel Maxima does better than 29 mpg then it will really be worth waiting for the diesel.

 

Max diesel engine spec articles

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09...w-renault-v-6/

http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/ar/...diesel_mighty/

The Renault Laguna model in the first post has a detuned early version of the 2010 Max diesel engine. The target output for use in the Maxima is expected to be much higher than 235/331 in the Laguna(see above articles), it should be closer to the spec'd engine in the Autobloggreen or Wards article (261-5/406).
Let's hope that Nissan can actually see this through properly with a transmission that puts all that power to the ground. The Renault Laguna uses a standard 6-speed Auto tranny forgoing the CVT even with only 331 ft/lbs of torque. This reinforces my opinion that the new CVT isn't going to reliably handle anything close to 400 ft/lbs of torque. So, some form of transmission/drivetrain change seems likely for the 2010 model year (at least for the Diesel).
I still hold some hope that the Max will get a manual gearbox for the SR variant (maybe it'll get AWD & DSG like the GT-R). Can't wait to see how this turns out.
By the way, an estimated 40% increase in fuel economy for the diesel = 27City/37Hwy, not too shabby with 400 ft/lbs. The extra .50-.60 cents per gallon for diesel vs. 93 octane gas is more than made up by a 40% increase in efficiency.

2K9 has 20 gallon gas tank
(2009 maxima mileage) gas 19/26
(2010 diesel maxima est. mpg) diesel 27/37
ExampleVirginia pricing
$4.10 per gallon (93 octane) gas fill-up = $82--------26 hwy mpg=520 miles per tank or 15.8 cents per mile
$4.65 per gallon diesel fill-up = $93--------37 hwy mpg=740 miles per tank or 12.6 cents per mile
$11 more for 220 extra miles = worth the cost despite higher diesel fuel price

 

Mr. Green, we will also have to factor in the increase in price of the diesel model over the gasoline model.

 

Do you think there will be much of a difference? Cars with Hybrid versions cost more, but there shouldn't be that much of a difference between diesel and regular gas versions. Unless, Nissan will charge more knowing that people will want the more fuel economical car.

 

It may very well be more expensive but I could not find any data on projected pricing as of yet. The diesel option could possibly be limited to the rumored SR performance model variant. This alone would merit a price increase with a higher level of features, and it should also be significantly quicker than the 2K9 model.

If it is offered with a Manual transmission then it would also lose a few pounds and have less drivetrain losses over the CVT. More power to the wheels and less weight would aide in handling even if the engine didn't have an extra 130 ft/lbs of torque.

What's up with the CVT's final drive ratio over 5?

 

Sorry "typically" they are not used for speed. due to the lack of hp "Typically"

and yeah the whole gearing on trucks thing completly blew my mind. I totally forgot. and yeah gearing plays a huge factor in the trucks power ban. I mean yeah the truck will launch off the line but once it hits 3rd gear or so it drops it's speed

 

Does the 09 take 93 only or something?
cause I just buy 83

 

From what we have heard it does require premium. I am sure you will be able to use 91 or 93 not too sure of any performance or damage that could be done by using 87 or 83.

 

Yep, premium fuel is listed as required not just recommended.
The knock sensor will allow the engine to run on 87 (not sure about 83, we don't have that here) but it doesn't make sense to use it as your performance will degrade approx. 5-10% (mine does). The 20 cents a gallon you save will be offset by the loss of 1-4 mpg in mileage (a net cost wash at best*). Long-term effects could be a higher risk of component failure and potential greater engine particle buildup. Paying $4 more per fill-up to use premium doesn't seem as bad as possible detonation damage. If you fill-up once a week then your only paying an extra $208 a year for premium, one part is going to cost more than that. Its not worth the risk.

*20 gallons = $4 extra for premium (20 gallons X .20 per gallon) , losing 1-4 mpg = 20-80 miles less per tank or a loss of .74 to 4.2 gallons per tank in fuel (20/80 miles x 26/19 mpg) or a loss of anywhere from $2.96 to $16.80 per tank (@ 4 dollars a gallon).

 

It's not so mysterious... the CVT uses much shorter final drive but also much taller internal gearing. My assumption is that this is done to reduce the loading on the belt and/or keep the pulleys in a more favorable configuration. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but it does result in an extreme overdrive top "gear" ratio in the CVT... with its .44:1 top gear, the output pulley of a 6G CVT is turning well over two times faster than the engine's crank speed!

I have not seen 7G gen internal ratio numbers, but for the 6th gen the overall gearing setups for the three trannies are:



Despite the short final drive, the CVT has the tallest overal top gear ratio of the bunch, and the largest spread from low to high gear.

Semi-related note:
For some time I have been trying to find exactly how many ratio "steps" the 6G CVT actually has... the pulleys may be continuosly variable but the digital controller is going to move it in some finite number of steps. I found the answer in the service manual section regarding the stepper motor that actually positions the pulleys... the CVT control system appears to move the pulleys in 210 discrete ratio steps. So... if you don't like the term CVT, you can legitimately consider it a stepped ratio transmission with 210 speeds - a 210AT. Talk about close-ratio!

 

"I have not seen 7G gen internal ratio numbers,"

2009 Maxima SV CVT Axle/final-drive ratios 5.17:1/2.27:1

Looks very similar to the 6th gen.
I wonder if this is the limiting factor in the listed Top Speed of only 132.

 

That may, in fact, be the reason for the limited top speed. I think I might be concerned about that output pulley spinning around at 10,000 rpm or so. That's the output pulley speed that would result from 4400 rpm (engine speed) in top gear. (Just a ballpark example - I have not exceeded 95mph in mine so I don't know what the actual revs are at 132 mph)

 

It would worry me as well. That must be some hella strong pulley system.
I guess we will know how well it holds up in a couple of years.
Has anyone had problems with the CVT yet?

 

None at all that I have heard of in the Max (or Altima), and extremely small numbers in the Murano, which is now in its 7th model year of production with the VQ35/CVT powertrain.

 

Good to know. Lets hope it stays that way.