dkmura

This past week, I stepped up my efforts to replace my wife's '95 Maxima. Going through a couple of on-line intermediaries (including Amex pricing, thanks to the tip from NCSUpilot), I requested quotes from several dealerships here in my hometown of Denver, Colorado. My target vehicle was similar to what many here have purchased: Maxima SV with Premium and Tech packages.

After getting back e-mails saying someone from three of the largest Nissan dealers in town would get back to me within 24 hours with pricing, I waited. And waited. Yesterday, I decided to call them. The response I got was unexpected. The excuses were essentially, "we've been so busy that we haven't been able to get to you..." After establishing that, we had to beat around the bush to confirm that in the NW region, Nissan still has a $750 factory-to-dealer incentive on the car.

But the bigger surprise was when we got down to discussing pricing. I was prepared with facts and figures from this forum, as well as the latest invoice pricing from Edmunds and KBB. The response was, "The Maxima has been selling well. We have no current discounts available on the model you're seeking." None!? Well, they did offer to cut the $499 "documentation/dealer prep charge" and other fluff, but that was about it. Full MSRP with the possibility of hard negotiating to get a few hundred off THAT.

Despite being the end of the month (last days of February '09), there seemed to be no interest in offering anything further. Dealerships here in Denver seem to be satisfied with holding the line on pricing. Even the Maxima S, which Lightonthehill has discussed going for around $25K in Atlanta, is being advertised for about two grand more here in Denver. Surprising given the state of the economy, but perhaps the quick response by Nissan North America (slashing production and reducing unsold inventory) is working in certain markets.

For now, it looks like any deal for a new Maxima is dead in the water. I'm not heartbroken, since I just put in a lot of work to address both cosmetic and mechanical issues with my wife's A32 Max (it actually looks better than ever and runs well on regular unleaded). Deals may get better as the year goes along. The other option is to start looking harder at the Infiniti G35X sedan, which as an outgoing '08 model is being heavily discounted at this point. What's astounding is that, despite an excellent credit rating, significant upfront cash, lots of interest and product knowledge that exceeds most of the reps I talked with, none wanted to really discuss a purchase further.

mls277

I haven't heard much of rebates but from what I read here 2-3k off MSRP is the going rate? Maybe a little more? I got 3K off in Sept....but I took 5.9% rate...even with good credit (paying off early but still...it was partof the deal). I would guess summer when the 2010's hit there will be the typical discounts.

Xeross

I got about 3k off my max on monday. Also got the maintenance+ package at cost(or you know... that is what they said anyway, but it was a pretty damn good deal, so I believed it).

Probably have a better chance getting a really good deal at one of the Big 3. The other dealerships are hurting, but not nearly as bad. Not to mention that the incentives package did not benefit just the Big 3 as they had tried to do at first.

dkmura

Perhaps that's the point of this thread. In some regional markets, $2-3K or more is available to move Maxima. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case here in Denver. And even considering a car made by the Big 3 is not an option for me at this point. Xeross- would you mind posting what you paid for the maintenance package? I don't know if a local dealership will offer one, but I'd like to know what they are going for in other states.

Xeross

I paid $1681 for the 4 year / 60k miles plan.(schedule 1, not the premium)

What that does for me is pays for every oil change and every big maintenance from here until the plan expires.

So I get an oil change every 3 months OR 3750miles, whichever comes first. Also I get the 15k OR 1 year, 30k OR 2 years, 45k OR 3 years, and 60k OR 4 years. I like the plan since even if I don't drive it for 60k miles in the 4 years, I still get the full service at the 4 year point.

dkmura

Thanks for the info! Probably not what I'd be looking to purchase, but useful nonetheless. I should mention that I've visited several of my local dealerships in person and had some preliminary discussions on the Maxima. Maybe it was the way I came off, but I've never had a followup call from any of the salespeople. Was it something I said?

maximadave

iTrader: (10)

You should call a different Nissan dealership and speak to the Fleet Manager rather than front line sales.

MickeyS

I'm surprised they are holding their ground even at the end of the month. I just purchased my 09 Max for $4500 off sticker. I did have three dealerships trying for my business so I just kept going back and forth until it got to the point where I didn't want to mess with it anymore and just went with the best dealership that treated me well. Plus I got the windows tinted and one free oil change for free. Couldn't pass it up!!!

Mick7

The other option is to start looking harder at the Infiniti G35X sedan, which as an outgoing '08 model is being heavily discounted at this point.

I'm sure you have probably seen the 10k discounts by Fields Infinity in the Chicago area. There is a discussion on edmunds.com about it.

As far as I can tell, Maximas are not selling well in Indiana. One dealer in the Indianapolis area (Ed Martin) has moved 15 of them in the last 3 months but no one else has sold more than a couple. I wonder if that dealer didn't sell to other dealers who needed particular vehicles? Are Maximas still being produced for 2009?

CT Maxima

It must be discouraging to not be able to get the pricing that you read on this Board. There must be a reason but it may not be obvious.

You know about holdback and the factory to dealer incentive. There may also be a regional incentive. Also, dealers get kickbacks if their volume exceeds a certain number. The various sales contests create prices that are $4-5k off of list. Theoretically, holdback and $750 and normal markup are not enough to get to the prices we have seen. So there is a "hidden incentive." We don't need to know what it is; we see the benefit in low prices.

To encounter ambivalent Nissan dealers is very strange. Perhaps other Denver Maxima owners can share their recent purchasing experience.

Don't give up. The car is worth it.

I traded in a 1990 Maxima; not to far off from your '95. The difference is night and day.

dkmura

Maximadave- one of the three I talked with was the fleet manager! Too bad I'm not in the SoCal area or I'd look you up!

MickyS- my plan was similar to yours, except I didn't even get the chance to get bids going! My goal is to someday reach an agreement that I simply can't pass up either.

Mick7- thanks for mentioning the Edmunds link. It looks like the $10K off a G35X was one of the better deals out there. Maximas are still being produced in Smryna, but at a greatly reduced rate.

CTMaxima- Thanks for the thoughts, but I'm not discouraged at all. Every dealer has their own business plan and they keep it well under wraps. I think the "additional incentive" you allude to is included in the day-to-day operation of each dealership. How much their floor plan is costing them, what their cash flow is like, or other factors. The bottom line is: time remains firmly on MY side and I'll keep looking until the timing is right.

lightonthehill

dkmura - Have you considered changing deoderants? Or covering that KKK tatoo on your forehead with a hat? And about that swastika . . . And I have found that showing up at the dealer shirtless is not usually helpful, either. You did finally shampoo your Mohawk last month, didn't you?

I am very surprised with your experiences trying to negotiate a deal on the '09. Is Denver somehow untouched by this depression they are still calling a recession? If a company advertises 50 job openings in Atlanta these days, 6,000 people line up outdoors in a cold rain the night before just to try to improve their chances of getting a chance to fill out a job application. Pure desperation in the best descriptive term for what is happening around here. The unemployment rate in Georgia has gone from 4.6 in December 2007 to 8.6 last month. Local economists say it will pass 10% this spring.

Do the Denver area Nissan dealers have dozens of '09 Maximas in stock? Some Atlanta area dealers have between 50 and 100 on hand. Base '09 Maximas are selling around here for as low as $23,900. Several dealers advertised $4,500 off MSRP for '09 Maximas in today's Atlanta Journal-Constitution (which, by the way, has cut its distribution area way down, laid off lots of folks, dropped several sections, and as of March 7, will no longer have a separate 'business' section; I don't think they are going to make it).

If I were in your place, I would seriously consider dealing with a more distant dealer that has some interest in selling a car, even though that would be a lot less convenient.

dkmura

Light- Although I did take a shower before I made those calls, it didn't make one lick of difference! And while it was surprising how little interest there was, after talking about the details of what I was seeking, it may have been a bit intimidating.

Denver is not that different than the rest of the country. The recession has put a lot of people out of work, including the staff at the Rocky Mountain News. That publication was only a few months from its 150-year anniversary, but fell by the wayside due to declining readership and advertising. It's truly sad to see what is happening to print media and journalism in this country.

It's also eye opening how many Maximas are stocked by dealers in your area. At this time of the year, most Denver area mega-dealers have (at most) a dozen Maximas in stock. There may be more later, but not nearly the 50-100 that Atlanta area dealers stock. Costs for shipping must be quite low, compared to bringing cars out west.

You may indeed be right about taking my business out-of-state. I've done it before and yet, you'd think local dealers would be panting to get a well-qualified prospect in the door. Who knows? At some point, I may consider a trip down south if pricing gets good enough.

lightonthehill

I shouldn't mislead you; Not all Atlanta area dealers have between 50 and 100 '09 Maximas in stock. When I checked the 23 Nissan dealers within 75 miles of my home back in December, there were probably only half a dozen with over 50 '09 Maximas, with most dealers having between 15 and 30 on hand, with others having between 30 and 50.

I don't know if this recession has resulted in any shortening of inventory since then. Most cars were missing from my dealer's lot for several days due to repairs being done from the hail associated with the 11 tornados that touched down in Georgia on Wednesday, Feb 18. Over a hundred homes were destroyed and over a thousand suffered significant damage in Georgia, with one soul killed and several dozen hospitalized. And we are supposed to get snow today (Sunday). I do know the assembly line in Smyrna shut down the night shift, so Maximas are being assembled on only two shifts now.

Not all Atlanta dealers are dealing from invoice downward, but many are. I got my SV Premium with Tech, splash guards, mats, and a few small perks for around $34,600 back on January 8th, which was below invoice. But I was careful to select a vehicle that had arrived just before the price hike in October. That saved me over $800.

I was helped by the fact I deal only with my dealer's internet/fleet manager, and I had purchased my last few Maximas through her. We don't jockey around, as we each know the other is totally aware of every last penny involved, and neither tries to 'snow' the other. I give her a writeup of exactly what I want, with both MSRP and invoice shown, and tell her exactly what I will pay. She either accepts it or rejects it. Since my offer is always fair, and gives the dealer a small but reasonable profit, she always accepts my offer. She has no problem justifying our deal with the dealership owner, because he knows I get ALL service and maintenance done in his service department, and refer prospective customers to his facility.

But I ramble (as usual). I hope you don't end up with a G35; the G35 is a very nice car, but not a vehicle anyone would turn their head to check out as you drove by. If you know what I mean.

dkmura

Light-Thanks for the clarification on dealer stock in your area. It's hard to imagine a lot (or floorplan) big enough to hold between 50-100 Maximas! Still, having 23 Nissan dealers within 75 miles of your home means you have competition that exceeds what we have here in Denver. Many dealers out here service small towns and have only small inventories. The fleet manager I talked with is affiliated with two of the mega-dealers here in town and could offer little help in getting close to invoice pricing.

As for the tornados in your area, I was sorry to hear about the tragedy. This winter has certainly been a strange year, weather-wise. While you're expecting snow in Atlanta, we've had very little here in Denver. February was the least snowiest on record and March isn't looking much better.

Back OT, your well-documented Maxima negotiations resulted in a reasonable outcome. A dealer you know and trust kept your business, made a bit on your immaculate trade-in, made a bit on holdback and volume as well as future service/parts. You got exactly the Maxima you wanted at below invoice. Textbook example of how to generate a win/win situation.

Two questions that might also help others: you mentioned searching inventories of dealers around you until you found just the right car. I've used both the dealer websites and NissanUSA.com to check for Maximas in my area. The former have few details on the models themselves and the latter tend to be old information. Is there any better Internet tool to use? Second, how did you figure out your Maxima's production date? MSRP alone? Getting a car produced before last fall's price hike was a canny move.

Having driven both the Maxima and the G-sedan (both G35 and the current G37 model), I've found both models appealing. You've probably heard that Infiniti is hard at work building a hybrid G for introduction sometime in the near future. And who knows what Nissan is planning in the the near term for the mid-model refresh of the Maxima? With those things in mind, a reverse loan still percoalating away and my wife's Maxima continuing to look and run strong, I'm in no rush to purchase. The future is always so alluring...

whit

i will probably wait and see what April brings for incentives on the Maxima, they dont seem to be selling at any dealers in my area. I keep popping by occasionally and the same Maxima's are sitting there. i even test drove the same one a few days ago, 3 previous i drove the car and it was on the same xm station and seat position. just tells me no one is buying in this economy.

dkmura

Whit- with the Nissan "Look closer" national ad program just announced last month, I don't expect to see any changes in incentives by April. The best that can be hoped for is that you region or dealer decides to get aggressive in moving some cars. Perhaps summer and the continuing recession may get some help for the consumer.

biged8

edmunds.com has an inventory feature now(at least it works in chicago)i just got a few prices for the new max for a friend.i talked to the sales manager where i bought my last three maxs and he told me no problem going 5000 off msrp.i have seen that much off in newspaper ads on base ones and wanted to verify the discount because my friend wanted a fully loaded one.i have used the dealer quotes from edmunds.com and usually they are within a few hundred of the best price i get from the sales manager i know.

lightonthehill

dkmura - Some of the dealer lots around here are obscene. I live about four miles from a Bill Heard Chevrolet lot that had to have over a thousand cars rowed up, stretching halfway to the Bahamas. It was very easy to get lost while driving through that lot; dozens and dozens of roads leading everywhere. They advertised the fact they were 'the biggest' with vain pride. Of course that is a lousy way to do business, and it was a little sad to see all his dealerships nationwide go belly-up last summer.

The predicted snow arrived here SOUTH of Atlanta Sunday. We still have a good three inches in our yard. The temp at 4PM Sunday at our place was 33 degrees. Sunny South? A group of scouts from Missouri here for a conference was supposed to fly back home Sunday morning. Now they are hoping for maybe a Tuesday flight home. Maybe.

I have always used the nissanusa site for checking inventories, but have found it is not quite as well-maintained as it was a few years ago. The errors I find are due to dealers, not Nissan. Dealers add things like spoilers, but don't update the nissanusa data base. Dealers also sell cars, or swap cars between themselves, and sometimes fail to update the data base. Individual dealer web sites are usually by far the worst for being up-to-date or informative.

As for finding the production date of my Maxima, I sort of notice the VIN serial numbers and window prices of Maximas arriving at my dealership's two lots, so generally know what serial range is currently being produced. The price increase came at around VIN serial 827000 (the first Maxima each production year during the 6th and 7th gens begins with 800000). Mine was set up for production Sept 27, and was produced the first week of October (has build date of 1008, which is OCT 2008, in driver's door jamb).

I would guess that there is no rush to buy an '09 at this time (unless you choose to go back and find a pre-price increase one). Dealers will probably become more and more anxious to move inventory as more folks begin to understand this recession is becoming a depression, at which point almost nobody will be buying.



ps - I mentioned that my '09 was set up for production on Sept 27. I got this date from the line of small numbers at the bottom right corner of the window sticker. Those numbers began '20080927 . . . '.

dkmura

Light- as always, thanks for your detailed posts. I chuckled at your description of the snowstorm in Atlanta. Out here in Denver, we've had a drought this winter (OK-so the skiing's good, but that's just in the mountains). Almost 70 today at the start of March is NOT the town I grew up in!

One other question, please. In another thread you mentioned building a graph that showed when Maxima supply and price intersected. Can you elaborate a bit and consult your magic crystal ball to see when the stars intersect for the next best time to buy?!

lightonthehill

Everyone will have a different way of buying, but I usually let my graph decide.

My 'optimum buy time' chart has been good for over half a century, but this ship named the U.S.S. Economy is 'bow-up', and the stern is sliding beneath the waves fast. No chart is smart at this time. The only question now is whether a Sealy Posturepedic might be better than a Beautyrest for hiding what money we may have left.

My chart simply compares the current price of the new car vs the current price of the trade-in. Initally, the new car price is sinking faster than the steady drop of the trade-in. I will show the numbers (minus taxes, doc fees, title, etc, which vary by state):

Iin July, my dealer was asking full MSRP plus $3,600 'Market Adjustment'. That totaled around $42,500 on the car I wanted (Premium + Tech, etc). At that time, my trade-in was worth about $16,000. The difference was around $26,500.

By October, my dealer's price on the new Maxima had dropped to around $37,500, while my trade-in value had dropped to $14,500. The difference had narrowed to $23,000. At that point, the lines on my graph showed that, from that point on, the value of my trade-in would be dropping faster than the price of the new Maxima, which, in normal times, would have slowed down its drop, gradually edging below invoice over many months. So, from that point on, the difference between the price of the Maxima and the trade-in would gradually grow, costing me more money. I was ready to deal.

BUT,

Just as my chart showed it was time to deal, the bottom fell out of the economy. I decided it might be prudent to wait and see if this situation might lead to better deals on the new car. It did. By late December, my dealer was willing to drop the price to $34,500 and give me $14,000 on my trade-in. The difference had dropped to $20,500. I knew my dealer would not be dropping the price of his new Maximas much more, as he is not the type to deal without making a profit. But the value of my 5 year old trade-in would continue to steadily sink. So I bought at that time.

You are trading in a '95 (if I recall correctly) Maxima, which has a real value on the open market, but which actually has very little value to the dealer, most of whom will wholesale older (more than five to eight years old, depending on mileage and condition) cars out for a very small return. So the price of your trade-in will have little to do with your deal. Because of that, you will probably come out ahead by waiting until good incentives are in place. That will probably happen between spring and the arrival of the 2010s this summer.

Since your trade-in has little value to the dealer (he would pretend to give you money for it so you would think you are gettting something for it), you would come out ahead selling it privately, and working for the best deal possible for your new Maxima. You can wait as long as you want, and the deal you can get should continue to gradually get better.

Lirathal

......................... nerd


oh how I envy your skills

Dakota Kid

+1! Great analsysis!

I just made an offer to the dealer for a 09 Maxima SV Sport...lets keep our fingers crossed.

dkmura

Light- Thank you for that excellent dissertation on your graph! It's nice to see a rational approach to decision-making on the Maxima. Buying a car really is one of the biggest purchases-- outside of a home--that most people make and you take it seriously. Each of your points are well-made and I appreciate them all.

As for my wife's '95 Maxima, you're quite right about it having little residual value. I don't even plan to bring it up as a trade-in at this point. It's in such good shape that we'll most likely look for that deserving family member who has little $$, but needs a good car. We can turn 'Mad Max' (my wife has to name all her cars) over with hopes they'll take good care of it. It's certainly taken good care of Kathy over the years.

lightonthehill

Lirathal, Dakota Kid and dkmura - Thanks for the kind thoughts. You can be a nerd just like me. All it takes is about sixty years of making every kind of mistake imaginable in buying vehicles, and eventually, one finally becomes aware of most possible blunders.

Unfortunately, by that time, one is also in his seventies or eighties, and the excitement of the open road is little more than using the navi to help find the next restroom. Fast.

CT Maxima

Don't take the dealmaking mace out of the dealer's hands. I got $1,500 for my 90 Maxima. I would have gotten this amount or perhaps $2,000 if I sold it on my own. Not much more. But it is sooooo much easier to drop off one car and pick up another.

dkmura

Being the sole owners of our '95 Maxima, it's hard not to be sentimental. Since it's worth so little on the open market or as a trade-in, my point was that it might serve someone in our family (and stay in the family) better. Besides, I just put in a new Mass Airflow Sensor, front dampers and upper radiator hose to restore it. I'd just like to see someone I care about, driving a solid car I know and care about.

Just had another local dealer send me a message asking to quote a price. Stay tuned!

Dakota Kid

Good luck on your purchase quest, I have made two offers to locals for invoice +$200.....nothing back yet.

CT Maxima

You may want to do some more research on the market price.

Many on this Board have purchased Maximas at about $2,000 less than invoice.

Dakota Kid

That is astounding. Can anyone list a location/dealer where this has occurred??

Trilitai

In this economy, you are not doing your homework if you offer $200 over the invoice price. The dealers will jump all over you. Do more research over the internet my friend.

CT Maxima

I would check other posts on this Forum. You will see that quite a number of people have purchased Maximas for very good prices.

However, YMMV. Example, Dkmura is having a difficult time achieving these types of prices in Denver. I don't know the situation in Springfield MO. But I hazard a guess that your offer of invoice +$200. is very good for the dealer.

Example: I purchased a SV+Prem plus other small goodies for about $32.5k plus TTL. Others have had similar experience.

What seems to be the driver is the hidden support Nissan provides its dealers. This waxes and wanes to a rhythm we, the buyer, are not privy to. Keep shopping. You don't want that car until spring anyway.

Dakota Kid

Thanks for the info. You got a very sweet deal, and doing your homework paid dividends for you. I will do the same. Still hoping Nissan may come up with some financing incentives, as well...as we roll thru the summer.

lightonthehill

Dakota Kid - I was aware that some here have gotten rather unbelievable deals on this '09, but there is nothing to indicate any dealer is making money selling this car at $2,000 below invoice. I honestly feel those may be dealers that know they are not going to make it, and are trying to take in as much cash as possible before folding. Just my opinion.

I also did not want to get your hopes too high because I knew very well there are many dealers (like mine) who are very reluctant to go any significant distance below invoice, and also dealers (like dkmuras) who will deal only downward from MSRP, and not very far downward at that. There is a very wide span of prices dealers are demanding for the '09.

One more word of advice - Prices paid for this '09 by folks who are trading in a vehicle toward the new Maxima are not accurate. The dealer will quote a price that he is giving you for your trade-in, but he is only saying what he thinks is most likely to close the deal. As my dear old Mother-in-law used to say: 'He lies like a dog, and the truth ain't in him.'

CT Maxima

Hello Light. Glad to see you're in an '09 Maxima. I find it ironic that your heated seats work perfectly....and you live in Hotlanta!

No dealer will lose money on a deal. But incredible deals are being made. I read about them first on this Forum and then got one myself. Nissan has an interest in selling cars in a way that keeps their dealers in business. One can deduce that Nissan has special factory-to-dealer rebates that underpins all the great deals. But it also seems that this "hidden rebate" is regionalized and varies with time.

My deal was well under invoice. Here are the numbers (all in '000):

List Price: $37.5
Invoice: $34.4
Deal before TTL: $32.7 (before trade-in)

I traded in a 1990 Maxima with 140,000 miles for $1,500. This amount was close to what I could have received as a private seller. Typically, dealers only give $500. for a car that this age. It is doubtful that the dealer gained any significant profit from the trade in portion of the deal.

Dakota Kid

The best quote I have right now from a Nissan dealer is $31,850 for the SV with Sport Package. We are moving in the right direction!

CT Maxima

Indeed this is the right direction.

Make sure that all that stands between your price and "out the door" are only governmental fees, i.e. tax, title, license, etc..

Dakota Kid

Bet on that.

BlueMax

That IS looking better.

My deal (and car) is very close to what CT Maxima got.

MSRP: $37,355
Invoice: $34,052
Deal: $32,868 or $1184 below invoice

The dealer also waived their normal $199 "processing fee", and that was all agreed to before I mentioned a trade or financing.

The dealer matched an offer I already had to sell my old car outright to a local Carmax, and ran the loan through my bank at the same rate the bank quoted me. So if the dealer made any extra profit off my trade or financing, they couldn't have known it when they accepted my offer. It just made it more convenient for me to do the deal all in one place.

This was on January 15, so you may have better luck now. Good hunting!

NCSUpilot

I was going to buy an SV+Prem+Spoiler+Floor mat+splash guards this weekend for $32k + TTL = $33.5k out the door but it got sold before I could get there . I guess the hunt continues....