goog67

I found another tsb for our cvt which also deals with the TCM. NTB09-052.I don't know what it entails as there was no details so I guess nissan will have to answer that...if anybody checks into it before me please post results,thanks
to clarify:
NTB09-138 IS ORIGINAL TSB TALKED ABOUT
NTB09-052 IS NEW ONE I FOUND
Both deal with the CVT TCM reprogramming

Mick7

Service got back to me this morning. Claiming that they do not know of such a TSB and in the next sentence said it would be 99.99 to apply it if it exists...lol. It was left on the answering machine and I have not got back to them yet. I suppose since it isn't a recall the charge is legit. If they will do the re-flash it sounds like paying 100 bucks is not too bad..if it works. Anyone else with feedback on the re-flash, please?

MikeRS1981

I'm at the Nissan dealer, after last week of being here and them denying knowing of a reprogram and telling me it isn't possible, the same service writer denied me again. I showed him the printed TSB and he then said it could be done, but there's a charge. I then demanded to speak to the manager, who then agreed to do it, so now I'm sitting in the waiting room

MikeRS1981

There was no charge, by the way.

goog67

mick7 there's no way you should have to pay for this,I think your dealership is sticking it to you and lying to you(HOW CAN THIS TSB NOT EXIST????WTF)...All tsb work done to date on my car was covered by warranty,this should be no different.You should only be paying for tune ups,tires,wiper blades,ect.Not something that is a non-maintenance item!!!The dealership is probably pocketing the $99 and filing a warranty claim at the same time(double dip)ha ha.Push back do not pay it !!!!

Juggernaut23

How can we find out if our VIN# is in the range of the needed TSB? Any ammo we have to get the dealers to perform this will help with some of the more stubborn service writters.

bluelion

yeah, i'd like to check my VIN to see if it "qualifies"

Mick7

The service rep was to get back to me by email today. Got home and nothing there. If nothing by noon tomorrow I will call him again. From what others have said, they really don't want to do this if it can be avoided. They apparently "found" the TSB between sentences since he said they will check my VIN to see if it qualifies. Like dealing with effing lawyers!

alan_s

If a dealer denies knowledge of the TSB you can point them to this web page right on Nissan's technical website which describes the TSB:
http://www.nissan-techinfo.com/TSB/T...del=&modelyear=

You need a login to the tech site, but this url may sneak you in.

Flip2cho

It did let you sneak in. Thanks.

Mick7

Any more feedback on the re-flash? Sounds like many are trying to get it done. How worthwhile is it? Those who have posted seem very pleased but only 3-4 have been heard from. Anyone else?

Nissan dealers have been trying to charge for TSB work for years. One example found called the Nissan regional offices for service...if that is the correct terminology...and got his TSB for a G35 for free but only after a huge hassle.

gizzsdad

Again - I am pleased, but I don't think anyone should expect this reflash to make your Max a rocket off the line. The software still protects the CVT, but seems to me to allow me to keep the engine rpms in the higher ranges with less pedal effort.

I will add that with about 600 miles now - I notice no difference in mileage

MikeRS1981

Im noticing the same as well. Doesn't necessarily make the car faster. If your cruising around, and lightly press the throttle, the RPMs would jump a little, then fall down. The reflash basically brings the RPMs up higher, and holds it there, so if you were to increase throttle input more, the engine is in more of a sweet spot. It stops the RPMs from staying below 2000 when you want to slightly increase speed, so you don't get the drone of the powertrain.

alan_s

Interesting feedback. I think the revised firmware has turned my Maxima into a rocket. The power is now immediate without flat spots. No change in mpg. Before the reflash I was saying to myself that I wouldn't get a Maxima again because I didn't like the CVT, but now I really enjoy it.

Mick7

How long did your re-flash take for the technician to do it? I was guessing 15-20 minutes and have been told that over an hour and a half is the time it takes.

Do you think that the torque management has been altered somewhat?

MikeRS1981

Took me about an hour, had the tires rotated as well

lightonthehill

Has anyone seen a list of VIN serial numbers that are eligible for this reprogramming? I do have the droning described by several posyers here, but knew it was attributable to the fact the RPMs are being kept very low.

Mick7

A dealer told me that any VIN number can be eligible if the symptom (s) is present. That may or may not be true since it was just one dealer. A couple posters in the other thread say it is the TCM# number that must match. I am having the TSB flashed Tuesday, the dealer is 100 miles away and am a little concerned that I may get there and get nothing done if numbers do not match.

I will verify on Monday that it WILL be done before making the trip. Like your Maxima...mine has a drone and is prone to being sluggish after driving it slowly around town. The vibration I get is attributed to the anti-lock self check and only happens after a fresh start up. According to the criteria in the TSB, mine probably doesn't qualify since some light vibration and noise is inherent in the CVT. Rather than stressing over it, I am paying $99.99 to see if it eliminates the sluggishness and others have reported it does. I am just too old to fight when the TSB may not actually apply...want it done..don't need any stress over it... so 100 bucks is fine with me since the dealer probably won't find cause to apply the TSB if they test drive it..

Mick7

Thanks for the feedback.

lightonthehill

Mick7 - Thanks for the detailed response. Let us know how things work out.

Mick7

The dealer applied the TSB re-flash this morning. There is better throttle response at all speeds, I think...realizing that the placebo effect can make a freshly washed car seem faster. There is something measurable at low RPM and light throttle. Instead of lugging back to 1200 RPM, it now holds 14-1500 under light throttle and the drone is largely eliminated. It feels like it down shifts faster and has lost that....uhhh ,what gear do I want to drop to... hesitation that wasn't awful but wasn't crisp either.

Everything FEELS tighter and more connected with throttle movement. Got 29.1 mpg going and 29.6 after having it done (103 miles each way) but would not attribute the difference to the TSB since wind was light and direction unknown.

The best part is the dealer did it for free without verifying any symptoms mentioned in the TSB. They can cover ANY 2009 and some 2010 Maximas if they choose to. I was told they didn't need a number for Nissan to cover it. I would pay for it and not complain because the results are just what I was hoping for.

No. I didn't try any drag starts or kamikaze runs. I felt only some quicker throttle response difference in DS and manual modes. Would highly recommend that 7th gen owners get this done if you can. You will like it.

lightonthehill

Mick7 - Thanks for taking the time to give us your experiences with this TSB. I would expect we will see many here opt to have this done.

fclifton

I think the service reps are covering. They did the same thing when I had my Titan. The Titan was having Rear end axle problems. Never recalled it, but had tons of problems.

Rose City Max

The CVT will be developed into a durable and performance oriented box. Eventually. There is no denying it will be faster than any auto or stick. No shifting, ever. How is this not good?

lightonthehill

Here you are trying to bring innovatively logical thought to our board. You must be a newbie. Innovatingly logical thinking does not always go over very well here. We do things the way our grandpa told us to do them. With anything he failed to mention, we turn to urban legends.


p.s. - I have been espousing your exact thoughts here for years, but for many folks, the mantra still seems to be: 'everybody knows a REAL car has a manual tranny and RWD.'

Maybe someday . . .

Norm Peterson

Because "no shifting, ever" is most certainly not a universal preference. That there is more to driving enjoyment than simple acceleration performance.

I realize that this probably comes as an alien thought to the younger members, but my definition of "driving enjoyment" does NOT include playing with the nav, making video or internet access available while the car is in motion, or whatever can be done via Bluetooth or Sync or whatever else is available. Those things are completely irrelevant to the job of actually driving the car.

What is relevant is how well you as an individual can operate the car, and like any other skill there is satisfaction in seeing your own improvement with respect to the various physical tasks involved. Not from politely asking some computer to do them for you.

It's an uphill battle just to find a decent midrange sedan with MT any more.


I do realize that there is a whole spectrum of thought on this. From "no automatic or DSG of any sort, ever" to "as automated as is technologically possible".



Norm

lightonthehill

But Norm - I have found a way to look at my inside rear view mirror, having it directed at a mirror mounted on top of the rear seat headrest in a way that enables me to watch the reflected image of the DVD screen I have mounted on the back of the front seat headrests. Doesn't that trump all other forms of driving enjoyment?

I added two fuzzy dice (I'm aware the correct plural of dice is 'die', but, at my age, I have an aversion to that word) in my school colors hanging from the bottom of the inside rear view mirror. I have also mounted a small rubber imitation of a basketball over top of the tranny shift lever. I also have a flourescent strap hanging from the chassi of my car to let static electricity have a way to reach the ground. I have a few pieces of metal in the tip of that strap so as to create exciting sparks at night.

A few purple neon bulbs mounted underneath the quarter panels, and replacing the wheels with red 22" ones, and I will have a car with ultimate driving enjoyability.

Yet you cling to the days when the driver had to make decisions and think in order to fully enjoy driving. Thinking is so passe. Almost nobody on the road these days can be bothered with thinking; that interferes with all the joys of bluetooth, tuning the stereo, recording on the Music Box, adjusting the fade on the trunk-mounted boombox woofers, etc, etc.

Thinking? Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison and Carl Sagan were thinkers, and thinking died with them.

MaxUp

I owned a 2000 Maxima and thought the auto transmission to be sluggish and slow to shift with hard accelleration.

I have been watching the developments of the CVT over the last few years and took the plunge on a 2011 model. The CVT makes a lot of sense to me. Gears are fixed and cover a range. The CVT, coupled with a computer, uses the most optimum performance and efficiency. I only have about 250 miles and I'm loving it so far. The jury is out on how well it continues to perform. I'll wait until I get through my break in period before putting it to the test.

Norm Peterson

Yeah, what could I have been thinking?

Oops, there I go again.


Norm

Norm Peterson

MaxUp

I hope that you continue to enjoy it. Really. Your first post and profile information sugggest to me that you will.

Believe me, I can understand your impatience with a conventional automatic whose shift programming differs from what you want it to be doing.


Just to bring you up to speed here, I'm that hardcore guy who is stubbornly unwilling to cede vehicle control beyond engine fueling and ignition to a computer. No slight to the IT profession intended.


Norm

MaxUp

Norm.

Good to meet you. I'm a gadget freak. All this new technology intrigues me.

ololly

Norm,
I apologize for jumping into your conversation, but I don't think you believe in what you're saying yourself. I'm form the former Soviet Union. I've driven all their cars back then - the good ones (clones of Fiat 125), the bad ones (clones of 1937 Opel Kadett) and plain ugly. They still manufacture them, you know.. But I don't believe that you want to go back to 3 gear manual tranny with no synchronyzers or manual brakes with no ABS and no power steering...
So I believe you do appreciate a technology up to some degree, you just want to define this degree yourself... Am I right?

Norm Peterson

No apology needed. But I think you have underestimated the strength of my thoughts and feelings on the subject. As a hint, I have nearly 100 replies in this thread alone.

The only concessions to your list I'll make is to having synchros on 2nd and higher gears in the tranny and discs for brakes. If the car is light enough, make that unassisted discs (and manual steering).

Tranny "gear count" itself isn't particularly important as far as technological advance is concerned - once you've got the mechanisms working it's pretty much modular to add another pair of gear ratios and another gate to the shifter. But I suppose that if sufficient power was available, I could probably still (at least barely) live with a 3-speed manual. By the time I was buying my own cars, Porsches and the Fiat 124 already came with 5 speed gearboxes and US domestic cars commonly had four.

Particularly relevant to this thread, I know that I'll always prefer to drive a slow car with a manual transmission than a quick or fast car with an automatic.

Now that I'm not nearly as tolerant of heat stress as when I was younger, I do require A/C (which can be completely under manual control). But even as my body requires this, it's not a choice that I make from my own free will to have it. Actually, one of my cars doesn't have A/C and never did.

That's it.

Two of my cars never had ABS, and the ABS on one of those that did is inop by reason of a bad wheel sensor. At $150 for a thimble sized transducer of some sort, I'll ignore the dash light unless/until either it bothers me enough to tape something over it or I become legally required to fix it under penalty of fine. So you can keep this one, too.


I am being completely honest here. I learned to drive on my Mom's mid-1950's 6 cylinder Chevy back in the early to mid 1960's (three speed column shift, nonsynchro 1st, manual steering, manual 4-wheel drum brakes - about as basic as US domestic cars were at the time). So I know a little about what driving cars that are considered relatively primitive by today's standards is like.

The bottom line is that I have no qualms about standing on my driving experience and history, ahead of technology that seeks to do all manner of things for me and relegate me to the background. The last not-quite-40 years of my driving record supports this belief. My wife's driving record is even better.

You asked . . .


Edit - in my profession I have had the opportunity to work with people from many different countries, including from the Ukraine. That experience helps me when English is a second language for a contributor to an internet discussion.


Norm

trix_05

Of those who got the TSB applied, are you only talking about NTB09-138, NTB09-052, or both???

From my understanding several people have gotten NTB09-138 applied with positive results, but i haven't heard anything about the newer NTB09-052. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
TB.

goog67

trix_05 disregard the ntb09-52 upon further digging I found that it's a tsb for nissan techs who to do the cvt reflash.there is only one tsb09_138 for our cars.sorry about the confusion but when I found it,it just said it was a tsb for the cvt but no details until I asked my dealership.

Mick7

I drove around for fun today and punched it a couple times to see if I could tell any difference in response since having the transmission TSB applied a month ago. Haven't driven it since then. In short...it works. The only times the tires would spin at all was on a standing start before the TSB. Now it will chirp with full throttle at 10-12 mph and did it twice. Torque feels more available in the lower RPM ranges but the tire chirp isn't a subjective thing. It would not do that before and it does it now and this is on cold 40 degree pavement where there was no noise before even on hot roads.

Norm Peterson

Wait until it warms up again. Your tires may very well be less grippy at 40°F than at 85°F. "Summer" performance tires, in particular.


Norm

Mick7

Undeniably there is more power in cold temps. These engines are known to be heat sensitive from what I have read. The tires are RSA all season. I believe the TSB allows the CVT to use lower gearing for a longer time. There is a visible difference at low speeds in that the tachometer seldom goes below 14-1500 where it always nosedived to 1200 as soon as pressure on the pedal was released. A "legal" 0-60 run is probably needed to see if performance actually changed or just the speed of response under light throttle. It is certainly more pleasant to drive at low speeds now.

Norm Peterson

I'm not doubting that you're getting more "effective power" down to the tires and getting it more quickly.

Just urging that you don't imply that the wheelspin is due only to the effects of getting the TSB done and/or to the engine making slightly more power at cooler inlet air temperatures. Actual tire grip, which does vary with temperature (and also with age/accumulated mileage/number of other things), also affects whether the tires will break loose or not.


Norm

spidgeon

I'm so glad I found this thread. I just traded in my 2004 Maxima SL and bought a new 2010 Max SV Prem almost a month ago and have been noticing the slow sluggish starts and low RPM's. Thought I was going crazy and have been purposely using the manual sport mode and paddle shifters to manually downshift the car, to get a sweet spot that was comfortable. I mean, I'm not flooring it at a red light or anything, but I want a little more power from the start. I'm going to schedule a trip to the dealership and have them apply the TSB for this.

Still reading through other threads, but is there anything else you can think of that should be looked at or fixed? I know of the rocking seat (which I have), recall on the struct insulator, etc. I figure while I'm there, might as well make a day trip out of it, and have them fix everything else. .