Octane is a measurement of resistance to detonation under pressure. The higher the octane rating, the higher the resistance to spontaneous detonation under pressure.

So a vehicle designed for 87 octane gets no benefit using 91 or 93 (it's actually worse for power and MPG) and a vehicle designed for 93 gets no benefit running lower octane gasoline (again, it's worse for the vehicle).

The car has knock sensors (knock is a condition that occurs when there is spontaneous ignition under pressure at an unwanted time, such as when the cylinder is in the wrong position). The result in modern cars is that the spark is advance or retarded to compensate for the knock (or pre-detonation). So the engine doesn't "know" what octane gas it is getting, it simply experiences knock, which results in a computer adjusting the spark.

Hopefully this makes sense.

To put it in human terms, let's say you are a vegetarian and have been for a long time. Eating meat won't kill you, but it won't make you feel very good. It's still food (calories), but the effect it has on your body isn't ideal anymore as you have, in effect, redesigned your digestive system to accommodate food that isn't meat-based.

The car was designed for 93 octane (premium) and as a result, using regular or mid grade will result in the computer compensating by reducing power. At the same time, the engine won't run as efficiently, thus reducing MPG.

Did that explain it?

 

Holy **** I know all about that. It amazes me if you have read all of that you both believe it would ping on 89. I mean maybe if it was VERY warm out and being pushed you get some pre det but unlikely. You certainly have no need to run premium when it is cold out because of the cold intake charge.

Run a tank of both and let me know your difference in MPG. I ran a maxima that was supposed to have premium stopped putting it in and ran 87 and got the exact same mpg. this is over a years time worth of both octanes.

This isn't like a turbo engine where the difference between 93 and 89 is 50+ whp.

Meh whatever, its small money at the end of the day what octane you use in a maxima. the difference will be negligible as the cost of the different octanes.

 

 

Oh ok so you're not ignorant to the information, just stupid in the face of it. I'm glad that some guy on an internet forum can educate me that high compression engines don't require higher octane fuel for optimum performance.

I'm tuned, there's no way I'm running 87. Besides I'm not pressed over 5 dollars.

 

^This. I find it funny that it used to say requires premium, the 3.7 with a slightly higher compression requires premium, you KNOW that the car has to combat using 87-89 by lowering performance, but people still ignore facts to save a few dollars. Hell i am bummed that we only have 92 in Washington.

 

The engines are far from high compression in the grand scheme of things. Have fun running high octane.

Do you think higher than 91 will gain you horsepower?

 

Where I live 92 is the top octane level so that is what the max mostly gets, never 87.

The only time I didn't like paying for high octane gas was when it was for my bracket car that required 105 leaded at $5+ gallon from the local speed shop. By no means a daily driver, but did that stuff smell sweet coming out the headers.

 

Remain calm...

From wiki: "The compression ratio in a gasoline or petrol-powered engine will usually not be much higher than 10:1 due to potential engine knocking (detonation)."

Also: "In a turbocharged or supercharged gasoline engine, the CR is customarily built at 10.5:1 or lower. This is due to the turbocharger/supercharger already having compressed the fuel/air mixture considerably before it enters the cylinders."

The compression ratio on the Maxima motor is *ding ding* 10.6:1. Also known as a high compression motor. And also marginally higher than your typical turbocharged or supercharged motor....

The Passat V6 is also a similarly high compression ratio engine and it too requires premium fuel. The Mazdaspeed 3's CR is 9.5:1. The Focus ST is 9.3:1. The GTI is 9.6:1.

Some manufacturers, in particular Mazda, have found a way to allow for a very high compression ratio engine to run regular. They are designed for it. The Max isn't.

Hence, the computer will detune the car and you will see lower mpg. By the by, premium is considered 91 octane and above (which is why you can't get 93 in some areas).

So use 91 or above for *OPTIMAL* performance and fuel economy. Or don't. The OP's question was if they could use 87 and if they did, would it hurt the car or void the warranty. The answers to those questions remain: yes, no, and no.

Do whatever you want to do with or to your car. It's yours. You will pay more per mile than I will by running 87 octane gas due to reduced fuel economy (meaning I will travel further than you will on a gallon of premium than you will with regular). You will actually spend more while tricking your brain into thinking you are saving dough.

 

Two reasons I use premium fuel
1. Sticker on fuel filler says "Use Primium Fuel Only"
2. This statement in my extended warranty. Any failures resulting from use of improper or contaminated fuels, fluids or lubricants" are not covered. (Improper) meaning anything less than premium fuel.

Simple enough for me.

 

I went to the gas station because I was literally on E and needed to fill up. I put my card in and noticed that I couldn't press the 93 octane gas button so I HAD to get 87. I filled up with 20 dollars to get me to work and back home.

I noticed a huge decrease in MPG and performance in my Maxima. Needless to say, I will take the time out of my day to fill up with 93 octane before I get too low.

 

Maybe you should just buy a Sentra. Those take regular gas.

 

Why buy a Maxima if your concerned about using 87 and getting optimum gas mileage? $3-$5 difference per tank? Forget the Sentra, get a Civic man...

 

Premium FTW!

 

That's nice. I drive a twin turbo i6 that only takes 93 or higher I can run crap gas but have to change my tune.

However my 3.5 maxima gets 87 because it does not knock where i live. I put in 93 for years, switched to 87 and no decrease in mileage or performance. The newer nissan engines may be more susceptible to knock, I will give you that.

 

I always use premium, but in my case I fill up twice a week (120 miles commute). It can really add up when I average $800 dollars a month in fuel and tolls. (400+400). Not being cheap, but you start looking at where your money is going and you look for a way to save.
The vq always puts a smile in my face, so I guess that is the price I have to pay to have a little fun. I got rid of a 2012 elantra after 9 months... 33 mpg regular vs 26 mpg with premium
Btw, no way in hell I'll be caught driving a Prius.
I'm still looking for the right car where you can get the best of both worlds.

 

The cost of a fillup is what...4 bucks cheaper with 89? That's 8 bucks a week...32 bucks a month. Not much of a difference in the grand scheme of things

with that commute, you should have gone to a vw jetta or passat tdi...upwards of 45mpg hwy

 

It's cool, I wasn't comparing my daily driver to your car which sounds like it was built for track duty. I was comparing my daily driver to your daily driver.

 

I put whatever I feel like in this car. When my girlfriend had my baby last October I had to drive from the hospital to my house and back several times per day (28 miles one way). I put in regular, and yes the performance decreased slightly, but the gas mileage averaged out to be the same as premium.

This is not a BMW guys.

 

We know it's not a BMW because it actually starts up every day.

 

Hah you so funny


No offense but I have driven every gen maxima except 1st and 2nd gen and owned/modded most of them. You really don't even want to start comparing them to BMWs. They are different platforms and designed with different goals in mind.


For instance, you can take a 15k 3 series and run 11.1 on stock frame turbos, stock interior, stock engine, and get 30 mpg. When your nissan does that let me know. Granted maintenance is higher, it's a more expensive and a technologically superior car, they go hand in hand.


At the end of the day in an NA Maxima you should run the lowest octane gas you can as long as there is no knocking. There is no advantage to a higher octane gas if you aren't experiencing knocking. If 91 works fine there is no advantage of 93. Same if 89 or 87 works for you. An example: in the winter when you have a cooler intake charge maybe 87 works for you fine with no knocking and perhaps switch to 91 in the summer, if that is when you do knock. An NA maxima isn't octane limited like most FI cars are.


Also, an engine in the 10.X:1 range really isn't that high of compression now a days. Look at a stock 12.5:1 Porsche engine for instance. I am not sure what happened with this engine: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...echnology.aspx an NA engine in the 10s is pretty common now.

 

They drive real well I will give you that, but technologically superior I am not sure what that means. If your goal is to have a bulletproof car then I would say a Toyota/lexus is technologically superior to any european car. I have had two Beamers and and Audi, and honestly when it comes to everything electrical they are terrible. You just cannot justify the cost of one with the reliability that comes with it. If you think i am crazy just look at the internet, lol. You will find stories all day long.

 

Yup. My boy's M3 has problems all the time. He loves the hell out of the car when it works though, can't blame him - thing hauls ***! Even he says he won't be buying another BMW that is out of warranty after this one.

 

I feel the same way about my euro cars, but I could never trust them, I am talking completely dead while rolling down the freeway at 80 type of stuff. I do miss it though, it was fun.

 

Ford has better reliability and lower cost of ownership of any car built today, or so I have read. Their eco boost engines are awesome. I really wonder wtf Nissan is doing letting the market just slip away and continue to advance. It really pisses me off as I used to be a nissan fan boi.


BMW has made and continues to make some of the most impressive engines and iconic cars of the last 30 years.

Technology:

S65 won the international engine of the year award in the 3.0 to 4.0 L category in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012.



N54 stock internals can handle over 725 whp. That is out of a 3.0 inline six. That is 2JZ territory:
The N54 dominated its displacement category with six straight wins. The only other BMW motor above 2.0 liters to have six straight victories in its category is the S54 from the E46 M3. The BMW N13 currently has the most with 7. The N54 finishes as the most awarded six cylinder BMW motor in history when its six straights victories for its displacement class are also added to its win in the Best New Engine award category as well as two overall International Engine of the Year awards. That means nine awards total for the motor exceeding the eight the BMW S54 received but one less than the S85 V10 which overall has the most with 10.



The BMW N13 gets its seventh straight award in the 1.4 to 1.8 liter category making for the only BMW motor to exceed 6 straight victories in its class.



The BMW N20 makes the list for the second year in a row in the 1.8 to 2.0 liter category.


Number of times the following makes have received the award:
Make Awards
BMW 56
Volkswagen/Audi 29
Toyota 22
Honda 22
Daimler/Mercedes-Benz 9
Fiat/Alfa Romeo 8
Ferrari 8
BMW-PSA 7
Ford 5
Mazda 4
Porsche 4
PSA Peugeot Citroen 2
GM/Saab 2
Subaru 2


Strange I don't see Nissan on the list anywhere...odd.




These are the totals from Ward. Granted it is US based and not international:

Number of times the following makes have received the award:
Make Awards Notes
BMW 31
Ford 26
General Motors 25
Volkswagen 25 includes Audi
Nissan 16 includes Renault
Honda 14
Toyota 11
Chrysler 11
Mazda 10
Daimler 8
Hyundai 4
Subaru 3
Porsche 3
Saab 2
Cummins 1
Jaguar 1
Volvo 1


A car's engine is the most complex & expensive component and what determines the power to weight ratio which is probably the best single factor in comparing the performance of two cars. BMW lacks in technology say what? They have some of the best talented engineers in the world working there. There is a reason everyone tries to steal their engineers: See Kia.


BMW also has a great history with F1 and supplied a ton of engines for multiple teams over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Grand_Prix_results
Sorry to hump BMWs leg but to say they aren't a leader in technology makes no sense.

 

^ I think the point was yes we agree BMW makes fast/fun to drive cars. Receiving an award for a handful of races is different than driving the car over a period of several years. This has gotten way off-topic though, kind of de-railing OP's post.

 

I thought after I posted this: "At the end of the day in an NA Maxima you should run the lowest octane gas you can as long as there is no knocking. There is no advantage to a higher octane gas if you aren't experiencing knocking. If 91 works fine there is no advantage of 93. Same if 89 or 87 works for you. An example: in the winter when you have a cooler intake charge maybe 87 works for you fine with no knocking and perhaps switch to 91 in the summer, if that is when you do knock. An NA maxima isn't octane limited like most FI cars are.
"

That basically sums it up in a nutshell. It costs $5 at the pump for a full fill up of 93 vs 87. If that breaks the bank you shouldn't be driving a v6. /thread

I thought it was OT time

 

I hate to derail further, but i don't see how i am disagreeing with you at all FastnFurious. I agreed with everything you say about BMW's. I don't think Nissan and Toyota have advanced there engines much at all in say 10 years. That is the reason I don't have a Tundra because the power to MPG ratio is AWFUL and they don't seem to care. I mention Toyota because I am going on 1 scion and 2 4runners that we have had for about 15 total years and never had one non routine maintenance issue, and that is amazing to me.

Anyway we are off topic, but this thread should have been locked a long time ago, because every argument has already been made

 

Came to read about Gen 7 fuel and you cats are talking BMW's?

I bought an '11 SV in mid-April. Been putting in 87 since I got it and don't notice anything strange at all. All city driving and my MPG's about 21. Last tank, I put in 92 and think I can tell the difference but it's nothing to celebrate or get all fired up about. MPG's hovering around 21 still. If there's a difference, I don't see it.

We're not talking rockets here, it's a V6 sedan.

 

This is the first car, first time I've ever decided to use 91 compared to 87.

Reasons.

I do feel a difference in power.

It states in 3 difference places that premium 91 or higher is recommended. Gas tank, maintenance manual and owners manual.

Reasons enough for me to consider premium.

 

How are we still having the 87 gas conversation? Run premium to keep you maxima within the manufacturers recommended specs. If you dont, you are taking a risk. May not mean much now, but it depends on the amount of time you plan to keep your car. If you drive 200,000 miles on a maxima you may want to run the right type of gas