^+1, I would love to have some lower control arms to stop the bump steer. Maybe try restarting the poll and see how many people are willing to purchase. Also, would redesigning these lower control arms mess with the Steering Axis Inclination?

 

How about something similar to this? Brian & Jason at HTP are somewhat willing to make a prototype set of LCAs for me. The ones in the picture are for a Focus but the Maxima has a very similar front suspension.

HTP would like at least 4~5 more people to buy a set but we argee that the arms will more than likely be a one off project for my car. The R&D will take some time and we have to get pricing squared away.

The rod end will be adjustable and change the effective length of the LCA allowing for the geometry to be corrected. The jam nut will lock everything in place when all adjustments are done. A short heavy duty stud with a Maxima cut taper will be used in place the ball joint stud. The advantage to this method is that longer balljoint studs are weaker under stress. Putting spacers between the wheel hub and LCA is a cheap way to correct geometery but it is less safe. Also to make HTP's method work everything is readily available as opposed to making a longer balljoint. The tooling to make longer oem style balljoint is expensive and would require several hundred sets to be sold to recoup the costs.

The big main bushing in the back will be kept as to allow for some deflection and keep costs down. The side bushing will allow the ES bushing to work or I may use a spherical bearing for a more aggresive setup.

We also have to make adustable outer tie rods to completly correct the suspension geometery. Those are pretty easy to make they just need to get some high strength/high misaligment rod ends. I think SPL 300ZX outer rods might work as well, I need to get a hold of some OEM style 300ZX ones and take some measurements.

 

If they can keep the price in the $500-600 range, count me in!

 

almost 2 years and I have 25 people saying they're in? Not worth it to make. I'd need probably 25 pieces up front just to pay the bills for development.
I don't see that happening unfortunately.

 

^Ya i feel ya man, nobody is really dedicated to redesigning a lower control arm b.c. of all the costs, and the complexity behind it, b.c. it is a very serious part to redesign. We have sway bars, strut bars, lower tie bars, etc..... but were missing the "heart" of the suspension. I believe that having after-market control arms for the maxima would completely change the handling of the car in a good way.
98SEBlackMax- Keep at it man, these would be so SWEET for our cars, let me know if you get any updates with them. I think that we should restart this thread so maybe more people will guage interest, if that is the case I think we should also put a thread on nycmaxims.org because there are a lot of 4th gen guys on there that I think would be down for some aftermarket lower control arms.

 

I can definitely understand where Matt is coming from. Our cars are old, and only a handful are willing to spend the money, hardly justifying even the time to think about it.

At any rate, I would certainly be willing to drop the coin for these. I've been looking around locally to see of any shops are willing to even take the time to look at it. I haven't heard any numbers thrown around but I'd have no problem putting down $2-3k if that's what it takes, though I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more.

 

So looks like there are only four people interested so far. Me, Bonka, timmay5835, and 95maxrider?

The cost would be around $500 - $1000 range FYI. Is everyone still interested?

I'm going to talk with those guys again and see if they are still on board.

 

It seem that math is not your strongest ability ! Lol I have clearly indicate I would be in
check post # 105

Cheers

AA

 

Incorrect. You forgot that the 5th gen would be a slightly different design.

All those expressing interest have 4th gens which would be the first to get developed as my '96 would be the test car. That is if they even make a prototype set for my car.

Keep in mind the demand is so low they are not going to go out of their way to R&D then make a couple of sets when they can spend that same time making 25+ sets for the Focus and sell them all.

 

Hey bro, BTW I was just kidding. I see your point. There is not that much people that are willing to spend that kind of money on things that are not absolutely necessary. We have to take into account that we are in a world wide recession and some people are struggling to just pay the rent and put food on the table for the family.

I'm very interested in this R & D project. I can have someone in my shop to do a 3D design/prototype, this would basically cost me nothing since I have all the softwares, hardwares & personal to do the design.

I dont know that much in suspension geometry, therefore I would need the assistance of some one who have a vision on how this can be done, like precise measurement and some direction. Once the 3D model is done, it would not cost that much money to produce the prototype, anything from a few hundreds to few thousand. With all the money I already spent on my car ( about 30K so far ) spending another few thousand is not something out of reach. Anyone willing to share idea's and knowledge then let's do something and start this thing. I run a successful business so I know how to make things happend, but for this to take place I need help.

Feel free to contact me.

Cheers

AA

 

Im definitely in too. Maybe if those of us that are serious send Matt some money up front

 

Well my car just crapped out on me today, and I just dropped $1500+ on a new radiator core support and 97 SE steering rack on it last week. I was just driving in gear and the engine/electrical just completely died on me. I was throwing a cam sensor code, so I reset the ECU, drove the car and it died again. The cam code came back, so I ordered/installed a new sensor, drove the car and it died again.

Anyways, it looks like my JWT ECU might be dead or dying....so until I can resolve this and drive my car again I need to temporarily remove myself from the list. Hopefully I will get it figured out soon, as I need the car for work. I'll post back as soon as I can.

 

Modeling the control arm or making a welding jig is the hardest part. We are copying the shape of the stock LCAs. There are two routes that can be done, either model & CNC machine arms out of billet or build a jig to weld steel pipes togther. It would be cheaper to make the jigs and weld the tubes together. LCAs machined out of billet aluminum would be trick but way to expensive. For example Evos have them available but they are $1000 ~ $2000 a set!

That picture I put up will be very similar to the arms I want HTP to make me. The replacement arms would be a similar shape to the stock arms however they would have an adjustable rod end with a stud instead of a balljoint. This along with spherical tie rod ends allows the LCA to help correct geometery of a lowered car. I think this would also help cars that are so lowered that they are blowing out axles, as the axle angles with a corrected LCA will be less skewed.

Setup would involve adjusting the rod end so that the LCA and tie rod are parallel to the ground. I need to measure the angles of a stock suspension Maxima to get a baseline but I feel making the LCA and tie rod parallel will get you very close to stock geometery.

If you want to get hardcore you could build or buy yourself a bumpsteer gauge, take measurements, and start messing with with the bumpsteer curve. This effects the dynamic toe curve and is part of the voodoo magic involved with making really good handling.

 

I found a company that have a high end CNC with 5 Axis and if I supplied them with my cad/3d design on a specific file like STS or DWG they can machine the part. The company also supply there own intelligent software for free, and while you do the design the software guide so you can make different choice, for exemple the part can be done using different technique & machine ie: milling, CNC, welding, water jet etc. I'm going to spend some more time on this during the holiday. I will follow some of the idea you just said and see what we can come up with.

I'll keep you posted.

AA

 

Since LCAs are a lot of work and cost a lot, I think Matt should make fender braces before he even considers LCAs. A lot easier to fab, a lot cheaper to make/buy, and almost everyone who wants upgraded LCAs would also want fender braces. Matt, I know I've said it before, but I bet you could sell ~30 4th gen braces in the first month or two, and I'd be first in line!

 

Hey everyone, what's up? My name is Melissa and I'm new to the forum. I just wanted to say hey.. I hope I posted this in the right section.. if not, mods please feel free to move it.

 

VQuick, it's on the list of things to do if the people I sold it to want to actually make any money. they need to start building parts for 6 and 7 gens too.

But yes, fender braces are definitely on the list of things they could make, even with little extra material involvement. They can the same tubing as the LTBs are made from, and I'd just need to fab up a mounting bracket or three and have them laser cut. wouldn't be too hard, but it's a matter of getting a car there and the time to do it.

 

Haha, well get on these "people" to start production. Sounds like a good January project to me.

 

I dont even think Matt is considering making the LCA's, "he has too much going on". I think it is going to be 98SEBlackMax or doublea who design the LCA. But come on now, anyone can make a fender brace, they are pretty straight foward, but I would like to see someone design a nice, functional, shiny LCA for the 4th gen. Now that is something not everyone can do, and you would see more of an effect on handling vs. a fender brace.

 

Of course improved LCAs will affect handling more. Fender braces are a chassis mod, which only indirectly affects handling. The area around the firewall is supposedly one of the weakest lines in the Maxima chassis and fender braces could make a big difference, not only at the track but on the street around town. The front end should feel much more solid.

My point was simply that fender braces are easier to fabricate and there is demand, yet no one is currently making them for the Maxima market. But I've said enough since this thread is about LCAs....

 

Whats exactly is a fender brace? It basically looks like a super FSTB.

 

Here's where they go and what they look like:

http://forums.maxima.org/6409033-post140.html

 

Anyone can do it?! Get out your welder and get into the garage! Post up pics when you're done!

Don't talk ish you're not willing to back up.
I'm not going to be making anything anymore unless I do it for fun on my own cars because I don't have the time to waste and not make a profit on it- which is what I see happening with the LCAs. There's a ton of engineering that needs to go into them and I just don't see it paying off in the long run with this much demand.

 

Holy crap.. Thats deep.

Don't worry Matt, I'd buy anything you would engineer if I still had my 3rd. Do you have anything left from what you use to sell? Just wanna know incase my friend wants something for future referance.

 

yeah, tere's still stuff there, just don't know what it is.
I'm going up after Christmas and going to spend a few days there working with them on how to fab up the stuff using my jigs.

 

FYI, still nothing out of Whiteline in Australia yet either for their Nissan ROCK kits. Other projects have priorities probably the Z33/Z34 stuff.

 

Once I'm done putting the car together, I'll jump on the LCA's project. Our inside 3D modeler has been sick since dec 02/09, hopefully when he get back we could start modeling some prototype.

 

sounds cool! im a complete noob when it comes to this though, i have now drop as of yet but am looking at going 1-1.5 so i dont even know if i will need these. im just looking at getting a lower COG and better ride.

so if someone can tell me if i for sure needs these then im down...but ill wait till some people get some on and see what they think.

sounds cool as hell.

B

 

Looks like this project is back from the dead. HTP performance has a slow down in their normal work and needs a few projects to keep them busy. Brian called me up today and asked if there was still interest in this.

Problem is my car is down for the moment in pieces and we need another 4th gen to stop by the shop for measurements. They have a good idea of what to do but I would like a car there just in case.

We need to know how much of an angle to change for a lowered car. I told them most guys are 1"~2" drop and I could check my car for the angle and adjust my GCs and check.

If someone is in the MA/RI/CT area and willing to stop by their shop let me know. They are located in Bridgewater, Mass.

 

Assuming these progress through the motions, how well will these work for cars lowered well over 2" (2-3.5"). Do custom LCAs allow for correction for a large drop range?

 

I wish I lived closer, I would do it. Is this the same shop that may be able to do the beam bending? If it is.....

 

With extreme drops I am not sure they will work. Keep in mind we are messing with the length of the LCA. At that point the adjustable LCA isn't the problem I think the axles are.

For example the EVOs with extreme drops they make adjustable LCAs but they also sell 20~40 mm longer half shafts with the LCAs. Now that is solution for a slammed road course EVO and not a Maxima, every car is different.

If these do get made I will lower my car as low as possible and adjust the LCAs with all the measurements, then test drive to see if the axles make any noise or any other issues come up.

It is also tough to comprimise and make a design that will work for everyone. I said 1" ~ 2" drop cause most lowering springs fall within that range.

My car will have around a 1" drop with the GC/Koni setup I have when all said and done. I want to be able to mess around with the geometery +/- the stock setting so I can change the camber & toe curves to see if it provides any benefit.

 

Nope. That shop is about 40 minutes North of HTP.

I have to work with those guys on making a bending jig eventially.

 

I can't tell you the angles offhand but this was from my last data given stock struts & spring heights (couldn't tell you if they were SE or GXE). Feel free to check any of my measurements, they're years old and could've been messed up by now.
1" ride height drop = 3" drop in roll center, and .4deg camber gain
1" ride height drop = 6.3" drop in roll center, and .6deg camber gain

Click to enlarge

 

Do eet!!!

 

Any chance I can get a copy of that software or is that a pay software?

I want to mess with the geometery curves and see if I can get some better dynamic negative camber gain on cornering. Also to reduce any bump steer I get on cornering.

 

I would totally hop on these. Although the bump steer in my car isn't too severe, not sure why I will say that -2 degrees of camber and zero toe made the world of a difference.

 

Sorry, it's my legal copy. At less than $200 it was more affordable for modeling than most other stuff I saw (like WinGeo). That said it's meant for RWD and doesn't understand our rear beam well at all.
http://performancetrends.com/Circle_Track_Analyzer.htm

 

Want to clarify. I would be interested really if they were closer to the $500-600 range. I know that is difficult to do, but it's hard to justify such a huge cost when I'm in college.

 

Sorry for the OT, but if they're really bored, have them consider making fender braces for us. Easy to fab and they could sell a lot through the Org. There are a couple different designs floating around the suspension forum.