Panhard Rod Install on a 4th Gen
06-09-2011, 10:53 AM
#41
770-851-7923
Keep in mind he may be on the road or prepping to hit the road for an event. He's really good about getting back with you though.
He does do beam bending. At least he did when I spoke with him last.
BC does make two different coilovers for the 4th gen, BR and RM Series.
BC RACING APPLICATION LIST
Keep in mind he may be on the road or prepping to hit the road for an event. He's really good about getting back with you though.
He does do beam bending. At least he did when I spoke with him last.
BC does make two different coilovers for the 4th gen, BR and RM Series.
BC RACING APPLICATION LIST
06-14-2011, 02:04 PM
#42
So I was browsing around the 2JR website and found a few interesting things and I was wondering if they might fit our cars with a little modification.
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
06-15-2011, 08:41 PM
#44
So I was browsing around the 2JR website and found a few interesting things and I was wondering if they might fit our cars with a little modification.
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
Nice find. Ive been trying to figure out how to flip the tie rods (to go undr the knuckle instead of on top) in my max. Check this link out.
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...-geometry.aspx
06-16-2011, 06:51 AM
#45
This is not a bad idea, but that would not work on the max. The control arm on the max is attached underneath the spindle, it would require a modification of the control arm first, like cutting it so it is shorter, then there would be too much stress on the attach point of the spherical bearing and the control arm and /or at the junction of the receiver of the spherical bearing & where the threaded bolts begin. The max is a much heavier car so the spherical bearing and the bolts would need to be much bigger and made with a very strong material, but that would require to strengthen the control arm end. In my humble opinion it would be better to design a new control arm. This is something I have been thinking for a while, but right now I have more than I can chew, so it is not likely to happen soon.
06-16-2011, 08:23 AM
#46
um, what does the control arm have to do with the tie rod mount on the spindle??? i don't follow what you're saying.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
06-16-2011, 09:52 AM
#47
um, what does the control arm have to do with the tie rod mount on the spindle??? i don't follow what you're saying.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
I have a bolt on kit for bumpsteer adjustment already but it cost me over twice as much as the 2JRacing one does. The reason is that the design has a zinc plated tapered spindle that sits in the hub and allows the tie rod to mount either above or below the steering knuckle. These were a custom design from Bolt on Bars and I had Chuck make me a custom set for the A32s. I was going to have some adjustable lower control arms made but that project is dead in the water so these tie rods are just sitting in a box for now.
As far as the Panhard rod goes I agree if your way to low even the Panhard swap will not gain much without raising the roll center on the front suspension, something we have yet to do on the A32s. I am going with a slight drop vs stock, panhard rear end, and using that bumpsteer kit if its needed for now. I have a thought these cars have a bit of bump steer from the factory and when I get some time next month will measure the bump steer.
06-16-2011, 10:14 AM
#48
the panhard will help correct an extremely low cars handling to a degree by getting the rollcenters closer, but it would never handle as neutral as a car with a panhard and factory ride height. custom control arms are an absolute necessity if plan on lowering more than a .5" in the front and want to keep your car handling neutral to loose.
06-16-2011, 02:59 PM
#49
I do not know the B15 thread and pitch on the tie rod end but the A32 Maxima inner tie rod end thread and pitch is M14 x 1.5. The B14 tie rods that I measured are M12 x ? so the B13~B15 kit that 2JRacing is selling will not work with a Maxima as is. However if they were to enlarge that part that screws onto the inner tie rods to M14 x 1.5 and you drilled out the hub then these would work for the A32. The taper on the tie rod stud is identical on the B14 and A32 FYI.
I have a bolt on kit for bumpsteer adjustment already but it cost me over twice as much as the 2JRacing one does. The reason is that the design has a zinc plated tapered spindle that sits in the hub and allows the tie rod to mount either above or below the steering knuckle. These were a custom design from Bolt on Bars and I had Chuck make me a custom set for the A32s. I was going to have some adjustable lower control arms made but that project is dead in the water so these tie rods are just sitting in a box for now.
As far as the Panhard rod goes I agree if your way to low even the Panhard swap will not gain much without raising the roll center on the front suspension, something we have yet to do on the A32s. I am going with a slight drop vs stock, panhard rear end, and using that bumpsteer kit if its needed for now. I have a thought these cars have a bit of bump steer from the factory and when I get some time next month will measure the bump steer.
I have a bolt on kit for bumpsteer adjustment already but it cost me over twice as much as the 2JRacing one does. The reason is that the design has a zinc plated tapered spindle that sits in the hub and allows the tie rod to mount either above or below the steering knuckle. These were a custom design from Bolt on Bars and I had Chuck make me a custom set for the A32s. I was going to have some adjustable lower control arms made but that project is dead in the water so these tie rods are just sitting in a box for now.
As far as the Panhard rod goes I agree if your way to low even the Panhard swap will not gain much without raising the roll center on the front suspension, something we have yet to do on the A32s. I am going with a slight drop vs stock, panhard rear end, and using that bumpsteer kit if its needed for now. I have a thought these cars have a bit of bump steer from the factory and when I get some time next month will measure the bump steer.
06-16-2011, 04:01 PM
#50
Can you take some pics of the kit you have. I was trying to make myself a kit since I didnt know anyone who made them. Was going to order from http://www.aetnascrew.com/metricrodends.htm But they don't have m14 with 1.5 thread. Then just drill out the taper and bolt it under the spindle with tapered washers (that will make the tie rods straight-er on my a32). Also interested in where you got your kit from.
100% bolt on kit no machine work or drilling required. Just ask for an A32 kit and he will ship a set out when he has them ready or make your own and drill out the spindles for a bolt instead of a tapered spindle.
06-16-2011, 05:29 PM
#51
um, what does the control arm have to do with the tie rod mount on the spindle??? i don't follow what you're saying.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
as long as the threaded rod coming from the steering rack is the same pitch and diameter as that of a B15, the bump steer kit will indeed work. the tie rod mount on the spindle would require drilling as this bolt is larger and doesn't incorporate a taper.
i will say that if you are low enough to require a bump steer kit, you most likely need a custom or at least modified control arm/ball joint to correct the front rollcenter. being too low almost eliminates the benefits of the panhard bar as your front and rear rollcenters would be way off putting you right back where you started with your factory Maxima, a rear rollcenter 5"+ higher than the front. you'd just have a buried front rollcenter vs a jacked rear. the perfect balance would be as close to factory ride height with a panhard rear or lowered with custom controll arms with a panhard rear. just my opinion though.
06-22-2011, 07:19 AM
#52
BTW, here is our video with the panhard from last week. The car tracks very flat, now we've turned our attention to the LCA
http://www.vimeo.com/25438423
http://www.vimeo.com/25438423
07-11-2011, 12:43 PM
#55
The rod ends are working out great. Last weekend we set a track record at Charlotte Superspeedway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLHUSN7WS04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLHUSN7WS04
07-11-2011, 10:49 PM
#56
awesome! still considering some custom control arms but i have to save up for a Quaife and a few more suspension parts. since i'm here i guess i'll give an update on the panhard. i've added and changed a few things so here's the most recent suspension mod list.
ES Control Arm Bushings
Disconnected Front Sway Bar
Stillen Front Strut Tower Brace
Paradox Rear Shock Tower Brace
Custom 2-Point Lower Tie Brace
2J-Racing Panhard Rod
Z32 16x7.5" Wheels, 225/50 Kumho Ecsta SPT Tires
(Awaiting Install)
ES Rear Trailing Arms Bushings
Stillen Camber Plates
Truax Stage I Subframe Connectors
the car feels great with the current setup. i put some es bushings on the front sway bar and though the car was very flat in turns, it induced alotta push at the limit. so i decided to disconnect it by removing the links and now the front end bites great with quick steering and mild oversteer. i used to have to lift off the throttle almost completely to induce rotation. now i can get the rear to slip with the slightest lift of the throttle (good for autoX). that did of course cause some body role which is affecting camber up front. i should have the stillen camber plates on soon so that'll help counter some of the loss of camber under extreme compression. what i really need are those koni's and ground control's, but the Quaife takes priority so those will just have to wait. despite the stock springs and struts, the car handles exceptionally well. once the camber plates and rear bushings go on and i do my own alignment, i think i'll be ready for my first autox in this car. i'll keep you guys posted.
ES Control Arm Bushings
Disconnected Front Sway Bar
Stillen Front Strut Tower Brace
Paradox Rear Shock Tower Brace
Custom 2-Point Lower Tie Brace
2J-Racing Panhard Rod
Z32 16x7.5" Wheels, 225/50 Kumho Ecsta SPT Tires
(Awaiting Install)
ES Rear Trailing Arms Bushings
Stillen Camber Plates
Truax Stage I Subframe Connectors
the car feels great with the current setup. i put some es bushings on the front sway bar and though the car was very flat in turns, it induced alotta push at the limit. so i decided to disconnect it by removing the links and now the front end bites great with quick steering and mild oversteer. i used to have to lift off the throttle almost completely to induce rotation. now i can get the rear to slip with the slightest lift of the throttle (good for autoX). that did of course cause some body role which is affecting camber up front. i should have the stillen camber plates on soon so that'll help counter some of the loss of camber under extreme compression. what i really need are those koni's and ground control's, but the Quaife takes priority so those will just have to wait. despite the stock springs and struts, the car handles exceptionally well. once the camber plates and rear bushings go on and i do my own alignment, i think i'll be ready for my first autox in this car. i'll keep you guys posted.
07-12-2011, 05:28 AM
#57
so i decided to disconnect it by removing the links and now the front end bites great with quick steering and mild oversteer...that did of course cause some body role which is affecting camber up front...what i really need are those koni's and ground control's...i think i'll be ready for my first autox in this car.
07-12-2011, 09:07 AM
#58
agreed. i'm hoping the springs minimize the body roll and the camber plates make up for any loss in camber under compression. surprisingly the body roll isn't as much as i expected. i think all the lateral weight transfer in the rear is helping keep the inside front from rising. it's just the outside front thats compressing a bit much.
07-20-2011, 06:47 AM
#62
I'm scheduled to have mine done on July 30! I'm also considering having some negative camber added to the rear beam, which is an option Joe offers. IIRC it's around $250 and he says he can get up to -1.5* camber out back. For my mostly DD, I was thinking -1.0* would be enough, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the money. What are people's thoughts on getting some negative rear camber? I also asked about bending the beam to 0 toe and Joe said that's one thing he can't do. He questioned its effectiveness on a car with a panhard rod and negative camber, what do you guys think?
Joe also mentioned that his first design of the bumpsteer kit significantly quickens steering response/ratio through some shorter pieces. This also somehow reduces the turning circle by 8 feet! Apparently the new bolt-in design won't have these attributes, so as long as nobody here can give me a reason not to, I'm going to take the last of his old kits and have them installed while I'm there. Maybe I can get Joe to chime in and technically explain the other effects of the bump steer kit. I've always wanted quicker steering in my car, and even after installing a 97 SE steering rack and a smaller diameter steering wheel I still would like quicker response.
Oh, and on my way down to 2JR and on the way back I will be visiting the Tail of the Dragon
Joe also mentioned that his first design of the bumpsteer kit significantly quickens steering response/ratio through some shorter pieces. This also somehow reduces the turning circle by 8 feet! Apparently the new bolt-in design won't have these attributes, so as long as nobody here can give me a reason not to, I'm going to take the last of his old kits and have them installed while I'm there. Maybe I can get Joe to chime in and technically explain the other effects of the bump steer kit. I've always wanted quicker steering in my car, and even after installing a 97 SE steering rack and a smaller diameter steering wheel I still would like quicker response.
Oh, and on my way down to 2JR and on the way back I will be visiting the Tail of the Dragon
07-20-2011, 08:25 AM
#63
unless you have alot of negative camber in the front, negative camber in the back will only make understeer worse. same as the toe-in from the factory. zero toe help to kill some understeer and get you closer to neutral steering. and Joe is right about the panhard almost making zero toe-in the rear obsolete. i'd still like to see what the combination yields as far as balance goes. i had Darin at West End do it for me in my last Maxima so i have an idea how to do it and whats required. i've been seriously considering buying the necessary equipment and attempting it myself. if it works, i may even offer a beam bending service for folks in the south east. we'll see how that goes.
oh, have fun on the Dragon. start out easy as handling will be way different.
oh, have fun on the Dragon. start out easy as handling will be way different.
07-20-2011, 09:38 AM
#64
unless you have alot of negative camber in the front, negative camber in the back will only make understeer worse. same as the toe-in from the factory. zero toe help to kill some understeer and get you closer to neutral steering. and Joe is right about the panhard almost making zero toe-in the rear obsolete. i'd still like to see what the combination yields as far as balance goes. i had Darin at West End do it for me in my last Maxima so i have an idea how to do it and whats required. i've been seriously considering buying the necessary equipment and attempting it myself. if it works, i may even offer a beam bending service for folks in the south east. we'll see how that goes.
oh, have fun on the Dragon. start out easy as handling will be way different.
oh, have fun on the Dragon. start out easy as handling will be way different.
07-20-2011, 09:55 AM
#65
i had it done on my old Maxima when i lived in CA. i don't have that car anymore. West End Alignment is in Southern CA. Darin still does beam bending and i think it was around $150 at the time. i sat right beside him during the entire process and it didn't seem very difficult with the right equipment. if i still lived in CA i would just go to him, but now that i'm in FL i'm considering attempting this on my own.
08-02-2011, 09:47 AM
#68
I'm scheduled to have mine done on July 30! I'm also considering having some negative camber added to the rear beam, which is an option Joe offers. IIRC it's around $250 and he says he can get up to -1.5* camber out back. For my mostly DD, I was thinking -1.0* would be enough, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the money. What are people's thoughts on getting some negative rear camber? I also asked about bending the beam to 0 toe and Joe said that's one thing he can't do. He questioned its effectiveness on a car with a panhard rod and negative camber, what do you guys think?
Joe also mentioned that his first design of the bumpsteer kit significantly quickens steering response/ratio through some shorter pieces. This also somehow reduces the turning circle by 8 feet! Apparently the new bolt-in design won't have these attributes, so as long as nobody here can give me a reason not to, I'm going to take the last of his old kits and have them installed while I'm there. Maybe I can get Joe to chime in and technically explain the other effects of the bump steer kit. I've always wanted quicker steering in my car, and even after installing a 97 SE steering rack and a smaller diameter steering wheel I still would like quicker response.
Oh, and on my way down to 2JR and on the way back I will be visiting the Tail of the Dragon
Joe also mentioned that his first design of the bumpsteer kit significantly quickens steering response/ratio through some shorter pieces. This also somehow reduces the turning circle by 8 feet! Apparently the new bolt-in design won't have these attributes, so as long as nobody here can give me a reason not to, I'm going to take the last of his old kits and have them installed while I'm there. Maybe I can get Joe to chime in and technically explain the other effects of the bump steer kit. I've always wanted quicker steering in my car, and even after installing a 97 SE steering rack and a smaller diameter steering wheel I still would like quicker response.
Oh, and on my way down to 2JR and on the way back I will be visiting the Tail of the Dragon
08-02-2011, 11:11 AM
#69
We anneal the beam with lots of heat, cooling - rinse, repeat. We found cold bending wasnt structurally as secure and lost its setting.
Nick's car came out fine. We vastly improved the handling, weight transfer and roll center. So much so, that he asked we dial it back.
Nick's car came out fine. We vastly improved the handling, weight transfer and roll center. So much so, that he asked we dial it back.
08-02-2011, 04:28 PM
#70
Cool. I am looking forward to going down there next Friday to do the panhard swap and all the other stuff. Think the car is on track at the body shop so I should have it back early next week. So what is the address of your shop? I keep forgetting to ask.
08-03-2011, 07:41 AM
#71
08-03-2011, 11:22 AM
#72
So I was browsing around the 2JR website and found a few interesting things and I was wondering if they might fit our cars with a little modification.
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
-First is their bump steer kit:
LINK
From the site:
"The kit replaces the stock ball joint with a 5/8" rod end. An CNC turned 4340 chromoly adaptor is included to allow the 5/8" rod end to mount to the stock Nissan tie rod. Also included are all required mounting hardware and spacers to adjust bump steer to your car's ride height.
The kit does require machining of the stock upright/spindle for attachment of the 5/8" rod end."
-The next item is their Front LCA Anti-Lift Kit
LINK
"This simple bolt on part revises lower control geometry. Adds caster, anti lift, and increases braking stability. "
-They also have an offset delrin rear trailing arm bushing that they list as fitting A32/A33
LINK
I'm not entirely clear what offset is referring to, and I'm wondering if this would prove to be a noticeable improvement over Superpro/ES poly bushings.
I spoke to Joe and he mentioned that 2J also offers bending the rear beam to achieve up to -1.5* camber, and there is a possibility that they might also be able to bend it to 0 toe. I've got my appointment to get the panhard rod installed, so I want to get as much done down there while I can!
08-04-2011, 10:02 AM
#73
We can work out a schedule and have the parts ready for you. I will say this, our rear offset Delrin bushings do not fit on a A32. Since our bushings are solid, they must fit with zero tolerance. The A32 has the same OD as the B15 but smaller ID due to a thicker bushing housing. We can make special bushings for the A32, but I'd like to measure (or maybe someone can) the exact ID of the A33 housing. My guess is its .03 to .01 smaller ID than the B15. Poly bushing can make up for the tolerance.
Our 2JR bushings not only improve lateral stiffness due to offsetting the trailing arms, they provide a measurable increase in handling responsiveness with zero NVH.
We are also working on a caster/ALK solution for the A32. One will be a spacer with revised lower mounting plate. And the other will be a spherical bushing with full adjustability.
Our 2JR bushings not only improve lateral stiffness due to offsetting the trailing arms, they provide a measurable increase in handling responsiveness with zero NVH.
We are also working on a caster/ALK solution for the A32. One will be a spacer with revised lower mounting plate. And the other will be a spherical bushing with full adjustability.
i knew you'd like.
08-05-2011, 07:45 AM
#75
BTW, here is our video with the panhard from last week. The car tracks very flat, now we've turned our attention to the LCA
http://www.vimeo.com/25438423
http://www.vimeo.com/25438423
I was also trying to figure out just exactly what the 10mm aluminum spacer does for the front suspension. I cant wrap my head around what they change.
08-10-2011, 09:32 AM
#76
Right now this is only for the B15 Sentra. Our pickup points are different.
FYI - we broke the Road Atlanta track record this weekend - running a 1:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScqQlzFP1Lc
FYI - we broke the Road Atlanta track record this weekend - running a 1:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScqQlzFP1Lc
08-12-2011, 07:46 AM
#78
Sorry for the delay in getting my write up done, but I wanted to drive the car on all my favorite roads before doing this.
I would like to start by saying that Joe at 2JR has been very helpful and patient with all my questions both before and after the panhard rod install, so I would like to thank him for that.
I went to 2JR to get the panhard rod, 1st gen bumpsteer kit and offset rear trailing arm bushings installed. Joe hit some roadblocks along the way (the trailing arm bushing didn't fit our trailing arm and there were some issues with the bumpsteer kit fitting properly/being safe that Joe can explain) but he took extra time to make sure everything was done properly.
I will let Joe explain the difference between the 1st and 2nd gen bumpsteer kits and what he had to do to make the 1st gen kit work on the A32.
When I drove my car after all the work was done I was blown away. The car turned in faster than a go-kart. I'm not exaggerating. This was mainly attributed to the location of the bumpsteer kit being under the knuckle/spindle. To be quite frank, it was too quick for my liking, and I've gone to great lengths to make my car turn in quicker. Driving to my hotel that night I was quite unhappy with the behavior of my car and was honestly scared when I was driving it. The car would follow grooves in the road very strongly, and I had to have a death grip on the wheel to make sure it didn't wrench itself out of my hands. Driving at 60 mph on the highway the car tracked straight well enough, but it turned in so quickly that I felt if I had to perform an evasive maneuver I would have lost control of the car and crashed. Moving the wheel 1" put me in another lane. Maybe I would have gotten used to it, maybe not, but I didn't want to drive home 12 hours with it like that so something had to be done. It might have been awesome for the 4 minutes that I auto-x ever month, but it would have made the other 40 hours I drive incredibly stressful and not fun.
Keeping in mind that I didn't leave the shop until midnight on Saturday after Joe had been on my car for about 12 hours, I came back Sunday morning to get the bumpsteer kit relocated to the top of the spindle. Night and day difference. Now instead of turning in 200% faster, it turned in 10% faster. I immediately felt safer/more comfortable and was better able to feel the difference of the panhard rod since I could push the car and not feel threatened. IIRC Joe gave me some toe-in, so I might be able to quicken it up a bit with some toe out, I'm thinking 1/8", but I'm not sure if that's too much for the street. I want to thank Joe again for going the extra mile to make sure I was happy and taking time out of his Sunday to help me.
After getting home and driving on roads that I'm familiar with, I was completely blown away by the changes to my car. It feels like I have the rear roll resistance of coilovers (I'm on Konis/Eibachs) without the ride penalty. I didn't realize it before, or more accurately, I couldn't put my finger on it, but the rear of the car almost felt like it was hinged to the front and wasn't really part of the same car. Now, the entire car feels like one piece and it just does what I tell it to do with no hesitation or delay. The rear just stays planted and doesn't roll. I still have my Progress RSB on the car. As I haven't had an auto-x event yet, I haven't had a chance to provoke any lift-off oversteer, but I think it's a possibility.
The other night I took a buddy for a drive on my favorite road to show off how flat the car is and how late I can turn in. I had about 2 gallons of gas in the tank, and on the first turn (my favorite) I really throw the car into it harder than I ever have before. The car is gripping just like I expected, but about half way through the turn the engine hesitates and it felt like I hit the brakes (I was still heavy on the throttle) but when I straighten the car out it acted normally. I'm going to attribute this to fuel starvation, which is something I've never experienced before. I guess all the extra g's my car is capable of just moved my fuel too far from the pump! And yes, it really does feel like my car's grip has been increased by 25% or more. I haven't found the limits yet, and I probably won't until the next race, but I'm really expecting the panhard rod and bumpsteer kit to take off 1+ second from an average auto-x run. It's that good.
There are some drawbacks that haven't been mentioned yet. The panhard rod clunks quite noticeably at low speeds. I'm thinking of getting some 1/4" nylon washers to go on either side on the joints, but I'm not sure how much they would limit the rotation or movement of the rod.
Also, my driver's side bumpsteer kit is making noise, and it looks like the socket is loose on the ball as I can jiggle the tie rod up and down with my hand. I tried to tighten it up but couldn't get it any tighter, but I'm going to try again later with some better tools. Still, I'm worried that the part might be defective. I have videos of this noise and the noise the panhard rod makes, and I will try and post them up later along with some pics.
I wish I had known the the panhard rod would make noise, but after driving the car I can say that it's totally worth it. I'm thinking about putting some sound deadening material around the panhard rod brackets to dampen the vibration/sound, but I think the only thing that will cure the noise will be some nylon washers.
Overall, I would give my experience at 2JR a 10/10. Joe is very professional, knowledgeable and helpful. I hope he can find a way to get the offset trailing arm bushing to fit our car and finds a solution for our LCA woes, and I'm really thinking of getting those custom valved BC coilovers.....but I'm really not sure how much better this car can get.
Thank you Joe! I will post up results of the auto-x in 2 weeks.
I would like to start by saying that Joe at 2JR has been very helpful and patient with all my questions both before and after the panhard rod install, so I would like to thank him for that.
I went to 2JR to get the panhard rod, 1st gen bumpsteer kit and offset rear trailing arm bushings installed. Joe hit some roadblocks along the way (the trailing arm bushing didn't fit our trailing arm and there were some issues with the bumpsteer kit fitting properly/being safe that Joe can explain) but he took extra time to make sure everything was done properly.
I will let Joe explain the difference between the 1st and 2nd gen bumpsteer kits and what he had to do to make the 1st gen kit work on the A32.
When I drove my car after all the work was done I was blown away. The car turned in faster than a go-kart. I'm not exaggerating. This was mainly attributed to the location of the bumpsteer kit being under the knuckle/spindle. To be quite frank, it was too quick for my liking, and I've gone to great lengths to make my car turn in quicker. Driving to my hotel that night I was quite unhappy with the behavior of my car and was honestly scared when I was driving it. The car would follow grooves in the road very strongly, and I had to have a death grip on the wheel to make sure it didn't wrench itself out of my hands. Driving at 60 mph on the highway the car tracked straight well enough, but it turned in so quickly that I felt if I had to perform an evasive maneuver I would have lost control of the car and crashed. Moving the wheel 1" put me in another lane. Maybe I would have gotten used to it, maybe not, but I didn't want to drive home 12 hours with it like that so something had to be done. It might have been awesome for the 4 minutes that I auto-x ever month, but it would have made the other 40 hours I drive incredibly stressful and not fun.
Keeping in mind that I didn't leave the shop until midnight on Saturday after Joe had been on my car for about 12 hours, I came back Sunday morning to get the bumpsteer kit relocated to the top of the spindle. Night and day difference. Now instead of turning in 200% faster, it turned in 10% faster. I immediately felt safer/more comfortable and was better able to feel the difference of the panhard rod since I could push the car and not feel threatened. IIRC Joe gave me some toe-in, so I might be able to quicken it up a bit with some toe out, I'm thinking 1/8", but I'm not sure if that's too much for the street. I want to thank Joe again for going the extra mile to make sure I was happy and taking time out of his Sunday to help me.
After getting home and driving on roads that I'm familiar with, I was completely blown away by the changes to my car. It feels like I have the rear roll resistance of coilovers (I'm on Konis/Eibachs) without the ride penalty. I didn't realize it before, or more accurately, I couldn't put my finger on it, but the rear of the car almost felt like it was hinged to the front and wasn't really part of the same car. Now, the entire car feels like one piece and it just does what I tell it to do with no hesitation or delay. The rear just stays planted and doesn't roll. I still have my Progress RSB on the car. As I haven't had an auto-x event yet, I haven't had a chance to provoke any lift-off oversteer, but I think it's a possibility.
The other night I took a buddy for a drive on my favorite road to show off how flat the car is and how late I can turn in. I had about 2 gallons of gas in the tank, and on the first turn (my favorite) I really throw the car into it harder than I ever have before. The car is gripping just like I expected, but about half way through the turn the engine hesitates and it felt like I hit the brakes (I was still heavy on the throttle) but when I straighten the car out it acted normally. I'm going to attribute this to fuel starvation, which is something I've never experienced before. I guess all the extra g's my car is capable of just moved my fuel too far from the pump! And yes, it really does feel like my car's grip has been increased by 25% or more. I haven't found the limits yet, and I probably won't until the next race, but I'm really expecting the panhard rod and bumpsteer kit to take off 1+ second from an average auto-x run. It's that good.
There are some drawbacks that haven't been mentioned yet. The panhard rod clunks quite noticeably at low speeds. I'm thinking of getting some 1/4" nylon washers to go on either side on the joints, but I'm not sure how much they would limit the rotation or movement of the rod.
Also, my driver's side bumpsteer kit is making noise, and it looks like the socket is loose on the ball as I can jiggle the tie rod up and down with my hand. I tried to tighten it up but couldn't get it any tighter, but I'm going to try again later with some better tools. Still, I'm worried that the part might be defective. I have videos of this noise and the noise the panhard rod makes, and I will try and post them up later along with some pics.
I wish I had known the the panhard rod would make noise, but after driving the car I can say that it's totally worth it. I'm thinking about putting some sound deadening material around the panhard rod brackets to dampen the vibration/sound, but I think the only thing that will cure the noise will be some nylon washers.
Overall, I would give my experience at 2JR a 10/10. Joe is very professional, knowledgeable and helpful. I hope he can find a way to get the offset trailing arm bushing to fit our car and finds a solution for our LCA woes, and I'm really thinking of getting those custom valved BC coilovers.....but I'm really not sure how much better this car can get.
Thank you Joe! I will post up results of the auto-x in 2 weeks.
