Hello,
First post here, seems to be a lot of knowledge on the VQ series motors. Quick introduction - my name is Jason Rhoades, and I'm what you might call a "hardcore" autocrosser. I'm building a 1968 Datsun 510 to compete in the SCCA's "Street Modified" class. I'm building it with the intentions of winning.

In this class, I can use any motor I want, as long as the block is made by Datsun/Nissan/Infiniti. There are different weight limits depending on engine size and type (turbo, NA, rotary, etc.) - what I want is something 3 liters or under, normally aspirated, so I can run the car at its lightest (2200lbs.) Going over 3 liters or turbocharging would bring my required weight up to 2400, which I don't want to do with this car.

Now, my power goal is 250+whp with a "decent" torque curve. I'll either be using a 350Z 6 speed or an Extroid CVT from Japan if I can get my hands on one. The motor will also be getting a dry sump to help get it low and fit it in the car.

The VQ30DE's are readily available here in the States, but only in FWD applications. They're compact, lightweight (not much heavier than the iron-block L20B I have now), and powerful. One possible issue I see is that of the intake manifold pointing right at the firewall with the motor installed. I saw a guy with a 2nd gen RX7 do the swap successfully, but I don't want to have to cut apart a FWD manifold and turn it around like he did.

I've read a bit here and there about swapping the better-flowing heads from the VQ35 onto the VQ30. Is there any chance that if I were to do such a swap, that I could also use the intake from a VQ35, since they're both 60 degree V6's? I've read about the variable valve timing stuff, and the variable intake tract length stuff - could any of the VQ35's advanced gadgetry be made to work in this configuration? Basically I'm talking about using the "top" of a VQ35DE on the "bottom", or short block, from a VQ30. Has anybody done (or at least tried) this? I'd probably use some domed pistons in the VQ30 short block to make up for the 35's increased combustion chamber volume.

Well, that's all I can think of for now. Rock on!

 

>>what I want is something 3 liters or under, normally aspirated, so I can run the car at its lightest (2200lbs.) Going over 3 liters or turbocharging would bring my required weight up to 2400, which I don't want to do with this car.<<

Actually, the VQ30DE (3.0liter) and VQ35DE (3.5liter) share the same block. They're the same size externally. In fact, the 3.5L is 35-pounds LIGHTER than the 3.0L. So if it's weight you're worried about, dont.

Here:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march04/ask_sarah/

I would definately look into the 3.5. SR20DEN made 247wtq and 263whp on his last dyno, with stock ECU and stock cams, as well as a 6-speed tranny that eats up more hp than it should (31-pound flywheel).

If you decide to go with the 3.0, you can get perhaps 225whp out of it without any internal work if you use the 2000-2001 VI.


The problem is, the 3.0 was only in the 4th gen maxima, which is Front-Wheel Drive. So no aftermarket headers would fit your car.

With the 3.5 you could use all the available aftermarket stuff for 350z/G35s. A fully modded, cams, modded IM, ecu tuned VQ35DE would probably be capable of something like 280whp/260wtq.

 

Clearly I would use a VQ35, but being over 3 liters, I'd have to add an additional 200 pounds to the car to maintain legality in the class. I would rather have the car be 200lbs. lighter and less powerful, even if I have to jump through some hoops to get there.

 

I think you will have to mix/match a bunch of stuff. In general the VQ30 is a decent na choice for the reasons you stated. I would use an earlier VQ (95-96) as JWT can update your ECU. Or maybe Technosquare can do 97+ ecus now? Use either a Middle Eastern Intake Manifold or a 2000 year maxima plastic manifold. Both are varible and give some good gains to compliment the nice low end VQ30 torque. Then headers of some sort. Probably will have to be shorty type to fit well. Then the usual suspects like intake, UDP, etc......

You got pics of the 68 Five and Dime? I used to own a few of those also. A 68' and a 70'. SSS L18 on SUs, 280z struts/brakes, ST springs, Quickor frt/rear bars, 240z alumin drums, prelude seats, front airdam, 200sx 5sp (crap 5-sp!), 15" turbo 200sx wheels etc... Those were the days.

Make sure to get the 67-68 front X-member and struts. 1" lower for free and the x-member has higher control arm mounting points for less bump steer.

 

It's a '68, one of the first 800 made, so it's already got the good x-member. It's also got coilovers at all 4 corners, camber plates, 280ZX struts and brakes. Still have a long way to go with fiberglass fenders and hood, race seats, bushings, proper wheels, race tires, etc. Then of course, the motor...

Here it is at Laguna Seca, this was a couple weeks ago:

 

Hehe 280Z wheels. If you can score the 280z 15" turbo wheels, you be da man. Or at least when I was into them, you would be heh. Nice clean 510. (even for a 4-door) Gotta love the old school speedo

If you want to run 14" wheels, use the Datsun/Nissan 810 maxima wheels. For some odd reason, they made those things extremely light. I ran those also with some Phoenix Stalflex (or something tires). Now THAT is old school!

 

Yeah, those wheels were all I could turn up in the junkyard the day I went. 18lbs. for a 14x6 is pretty poor, especially with the heavy Azenis. I wanted to get some of the "swastika" 15x7's but couldn't find 'em. The plan is that in race trim the car will be on custom 14x8's with 225/50-14 Kumho V710s. Gotta get the rear trailing arms notched next...

 

I didn't have coilovers so I just had a good frame shop bend my rear arms.

 

Hit me up on AIM and I will tell you the combo for what I call the VQ30DE-B. That is if you want to be able to rev the crap out of the thing (8000-9000rpm) and make tons of power doing so.

 

Sounds perfect. I've got an S2000 too, so I'm used to 9000rpm.

I'll be online a bit later tonight...thanks for the help so far everyone!

 

I heard there was a race version of the VQ30DE pushing 415 hp at 8500 RPM. Clearly that's worth a fortune, but the potential is there.

Good luck, it's a great engine.

 

Look for a VQ30DET. It's from Japan, and its for a rear wheel drive application. Only catch is that motor is turbo'd from the factory. It will keep you at 3.0 though.

 

and you'll put down 300+ whp!

 

He already said FI and anything over 3.0 liters carrys a weight penalty.

 

VQ30DET seems like best bet they sell for $1000 on e-bay plus shipping. He wouldn't need to do any internal work. He could use a 350z transmission which have been on e-bay really cheap for some reason.

 

JZR: That's just fantastic -- I'm in awe of that car. I may have to come steal it from you. . .

One minor nit to pick: if you can, use a photo editing program to shrink the picture down to about 500 pixels wide, and it will no longer make the thread so wide that we have to constantly scroll to read it.

 

Sorry, guess I take it for granted that everyone runs at least 1280x1024..

Here's another one from last Sunday. Stock seats sux0rs!



Has anybody dry sumped their motor yet?

 

isint the vq35 only like 175 pounds?

 

[QUOTE=jzr]Sorry, guess I take it for granted that everyone runs at least 1280x1024..

I think most of us do, including me. There must be something about these boards that makes the large pics display oversize.

You gotta stop posting those pics, regardless of size. I can't concentrate on what I'm supposed to be doing. . .

 

No one here has done so but I have been considering it. A dry sump setup makes a little more power. The Grand Am Cup 350Z teams probably run dry sump.

 

HAHA. You wish...

 

What part of "no turbo without weight penalty" was that hard to understand?

 

I think running the 3.5 would still net the best results overall, even with the 200 pound weight increase. Do a front to back & left to right weight bias estimation with both the VQ30 and then again with the VQ35. Not only will the VQ35 go well beyond the power levels you are looking for, but the power to weight ratio and overall balance would most likely improve to boot. Sure, the VQ30 is still more than capable, but I think the overall ease when it comes to performance parts for the VQ35 might convince you otherwise.

 

Cost is going to up alot also. A good running 3.0VQ can be had for about $300-$400

 

A VQ35DE can be had for 800$ on car-part. I think the 3.5's extra potential would easily outweight the 400-500$ difference.

 

I wasnt refering to him using the turbo off the VQ30DET, but the rest of the engine. Since that motor and tranny were for a rear wheel drive car, the logical choice if he wants to use the VQ motor would be that one. A pair of custom headers, and he'd be set. Only thing he'd need to leave off is the turbo and he'd get what he's looking for.

 

Iono Nismology, the guy who swaped one in his rx7 weighed it around 187 pounds, Cant remember, But i know for sure he said it was under 200lbs

 

That's the block maybe...

 

That jives with what I've seen. The VQ30 is commonly referenced as "108 pounds lighter" than the 300Z's iron-block VG30DE, and I've seen the VG30 listed at about 300lbs.

For a track car or street car I'd definitely go with the VQ35 for the reasons you guys mention. The problem is in autocross, lateral grip is just about everything. To maintain the same lateral grip @2400lbs. that I'd have @2200lbs, I'd have to go to wider wheels, wider tires, bigger flares, etc. Right now the fastest Street Modified cars are E36 BMW M3s sporting 300+whp S54 inline 6's. They weigh just over 2600lbs. and run 305-18 Kumho V710s. Their problem is they're big and heavy - I'd like to maximize the 510's size and weight advantage by keeping it as narrow and light as I can.

I'll look into the VQ30DET - my concern would be that it might make less power than an N/A motor if it has lower compression.

 

I purchased one from a junkyard here in GA for $650 (pick up price)...

I know there are also a couple 350Z drivetrains in the metro area that are for the having...

 

Swap pistons to the higher CR Maxima ones.

 

or higher CR than even stock ones, combine that with a DE-K VI and some intake and exhaust work and youll have a nice toy

 

I don't know why everyone is saying the 35 over the 30. The 30 is king of autocrossing because of its torque multiplying manifold and static cam timing.

 

Might be able to use a thinner head gasket to help bring it back up a bit....

 

He might be on a particular budget, but I don't know...

Either way, that car is going to kick a$$...

 

Why not go with SR's set up?

Or get a 3.5L out of a Z and put in aftermarket pistons, rods and bolts to lower the stroke. Use the heads from a VQ30DE to increase CR and still have access to all the current bolt-ons for the 350Z, is this possible?

 

What is SR's setup?

As for the other alternative, stroke length is determined by the crankshaft, not the pistons, rods, or bolts. If there was a different Nissan crank I could use in the VQ35 to bring the displacement down under 3.0, that would be cool. I believe the VQ30 crank bolts in, but the net displacement then would be ~3.3 liters.

A custom-made crank for the VQ35 to bring it under 3.0 would be interesting and perhaps not completely out of the budget possibilities, but I'd really like to get the car running sometime this year, and that kind of stuff takes time. That, and unless somebody has already done it, I'd rather not be a guinea pig.

Of course, now you got me thinking about how a custom crank would work with a Q45 motor to bring it under 3.0...

 

That is what I was going to tell you about but I never heard from you. The VQ23DE (Japan only i think) uses a 69mm crankshaft. If you use that in a VQ35 it comes out to 2965cc. If you bore the VQ35 to 96mm you end up with 2997cc. That would yield the lightest, highest revving VQ possible using factory parts.

 

Ahh, sorry about that, didn't have a chance to get on AIM that night. When I get a chance I will, very interested to hear more about the setup, especially after I see you got in the 12's. The same powerplant in the RWD and 1000lb. lighter 510 would have it in the mid 11's I would think...

And thanks for the tip on the crank - that is VERY interesting!!!

 

http://www.poweredbynissan.com/Engin...neSpecs.htm#VQ