Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Is it possible to use gears out of that transmission? You certainly couldn't use the tranny itself, it's built for a RWD/4WD setup. Maybe the gears though. I don't know enough about the trannies that come in those trucks to say, though.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I know for a fact that we can get more aggressive 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears from 2000-2001 Altimas.

1st gear on our 5-speeds is 3.285, Altima is 3.40
2nd gear on our 5-speeds is 1.850, Altima is 1.955 (very interesting jump)
3rd gear on our 5-speeds is 1.206, Altima is 1.272
4th gear on our 5-speeds is 0.954, Altima is identical
5th gear on our 5-speeds is 0.759, Altima is 0.740 (better for fuel economy)

Personally I think the 1st and 5th gears are perfect as they are, but the 2nd, 3rd and (especially) 4th gears need to be more aggressive. My main beef is that my 4th gear would need to be around 1.05 instead of 0.95. There IS a 1.05 4th gear available, but it's for 2002+ trannies, which dont fit ours.

I would have to check if the 1988/1989 Pulsar 5-speed has a more aggressive 4th gear, the 1990/1991 Axxess might also *crosses fingers*

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

ah, i see. you want quicker acceleration with more aggresive gears. 3rd gear at 60 mph right now is at 4k rpm, i'm guessing you want to change out specific gears and not alter the final drive?

oh, and after seeing your sig i retract my comments.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You really don't want to widen the gear spacing. Especially if you start revving to 7200+. Use the normal Maxima 1-4 and the tallest 5th you can find.

Also, the further you space 2nd from 3rd, the more likely you are to miss that shift.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Wow, thats some good information-
Seems like Altima 2nd gear is a freakin monster.. and I totally agree after that hard hitting 3rd gear it would be painful to be back to the crawl of what I get in 4th gear. Sounds like we can make a nice friggin "frankengear" out of an altima and possibly the SR20/Pulsar/Axxess?
BTW, WTF is an Axxess?
I would wager that doing this kind of setup would make the car wild quick.

Oh, and Larrio, thanks man! Like you said, I'd like to keep 5th the same for the freeway.. But I'd friggin love to have to rev up to like at least 5-6K to shift into 5th w/o bog

SR20DEN, I dont understand your comment, sorry... It wouldnt (ideally) increase the spacing to go with all taller gears, right? (at least as many as possible, hopefully we can get 2,3,4 taller, np if getting into 5th takes some finesse)
I could see what you are saying more in terms of drag racing, but Im more about track racing, and staying in the 50-110 range...

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You just don't want to increase the percentage of difference between the gears. This is for almost all types of racing. If you want to stay between 50-110 there are two ways you cna do this. One is simply stay in third the whole time and the other is to do 2-3 shifts all the way though. Unless you had a very broad torque curve you really wouldn't want to be going much below 65 in third gear. And if you're going to do alot of shifting between second and third you want them to be perfectly spaced to use two full sweeps of your engines powerband within that speed range. To have that you'll need a more narrow 2-3 shift as opposed to a broader one. And having the ratios closer together makes the shifts easier on you and your transmission.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. Definatley something that I need to think about. But what about the fact that if 2,3,4 are ALL taller, the spacing really doesnt change, right?
Like I said, Im OK with a more difficult 4th to 5th shift..
I had been thinking that I'd want to stay in 3rd and 4th mostly for the 50-110 range. As it is, I go like 65-105 in 3rd and 105-110 in 4th (dont make it up to speed in time to use 4th before the brakes have to come on!!).
Seems like I can do better and get faster accel in 3rd- like maybe 55-85 and 4th 85-110 or 85-120!!!!!!!! on the same track. That would be a BIG drop in laptimes.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I won't rev to 7200+. It's not worth it. It takes an incredibly good intake manifold to make good power up to 7200+. Since I have the stock 2k2 IM, reving above 6600-6800 is pretty pointless. Even with a good intake manifold I can't see 7200+ being worth it. I will most likely set my rev limiter at 7000 flat and shift at 6800-6900 (once I get a respectable intake manifold). I don't like overreving like Krismax. I want peak power around 6000, and no big drop off until past 6500. But I'll never rev my engine above 6800-6900.

Swapping the 2nd and 3rd gears for 1.955 and 1.27 doesn't really change the percentage, I mean 00-01 Altimas came from the factory with that spacing:

1.955 / 1.27 = 1.53937
1.850 / 1.206 = 1.53399

No difference, really. If I shift at the same RPMs, I'll end up at x RPM in 3rd, whether 2/3 is 1.95/1.27, or 1.85/1.20. It's the same percentage.

1st is aggressive enough, but 2-3 can take more.

And I don't understand why I'd be more likely to miss a shift ...?

Also would you recommend simply using the 1.27 3rd gear (vs 1.20) but keep the 1.85 2nd, so both are closer together? But I still don't see why I would not benefit from the 1.95 2nd gear.




PS- There is no taller 5th gear available for the RS5F50A tranny (except 0.74 vs 0.759, but the difference is not worth it). 0.74 is the tallest we have, no 0.6xx available to us. I checked all cars with the 50A rod.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Yea, this is what I am thinking as well-
Hey JClaw, how do we go about finding out about a better 4th gear? I'd be down to help get this done, it would be a super power mod!! Free horsepower! (well, free after paying for the mod)
I'd actually be down to keep the stock 2nd gear and get 3rd and 4th more aggressive, with the MEVI I do all right with the high-RPM range. I'd love it if my 3rd gear felt like "second and a half" and if 4th was like "3rd and a quarter"... Man, I'd be pulling on STi's all day... Would have to go with full track brake pads but thats a good thing...

What are your thoughts on XTerra 4th gears? Any chance?

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

My IM needs to be revved to about 7000-7200 to make good use of the poweband. Revving past the power peak is all about your gear spacing. For example: you want your 3rd gear exit HP to equal your 4th gear entrance HP. I didn't say rev to 99999999999 RPMs just so you can say you did.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I don't have access to an IM as good as yours, I am probably going to have to settle for a DE-K.

I understand what you mean about exit/entrance HP, but Nissan used those slightly more aggressive 3 gears in the 1.8 Pulsar, 4WD Axxess and 00-01 Altima, why is the 3.28/1.85/1.20 1-2-3 set more suited for my powerband than 3.28/1.95/1.27? If anything, it's closer to the 6-speed set, which meets the VQ35 powerband quite well.

We don't have any options for 4th gear. XTerra wont fit, you need to take gears from a RS5F50A tranny. The only way to make 4th gear more aggressive is to change the final drive gear, which will make ALL of the gears more aggressive.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

If you dont rev to atleast what SR does you will never touch his times and my times the reason my times are the same as yours but my 60 ft is much worse is because i gain my extra ET from my revs . So when i run a 1.9-1.8 60 ft you will see what my revs do for me

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

The reason you have more potential is that your car is much lighter and the fact that you have a better intake manifold. I know I need to rev higher than 6500, but 7000 is enough IMO. No need for 7500 or such. My car has much more power to gain from IM/tuning, but taking it above 7000 is rather pointless unless you've got some kind of incredible IM, which I don't.

I'm not in the race to "beat" anyone. I want to pull 12.90s in my heavy @ss SE, no weight reduction. You want low 12s, fine, SR20DEN could do mid 12s, I'll be happy with a 12.9 thank you very much, and I'll still be the fastest stock looking maxima, N/A or FI. I do bracket racing, good R/Ts and consistancy are a trade off to being a little slower.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

With the 3.28/1.95/1.27 you've shortened 1-2 but lengthed the space between 2 and 3, even though you've shortened 1-3. A shorter second gear isn't needed anymore than a shortened first. For a VQ35 you would be better off leaving it alone or using a 3.28/1.83/1.27. This way your 1-2 stays the same but your 2-3 shift is shorter. Narowing the speed difference between the gears makes thins easier on the synchronizers and makes the shift go easier. This is especially crucial on a 2-3 shift which is the most difficult to do.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Ok I could do that, but with the more aggressive final drive (4.16 vs 3.82), right?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

the weight diff isnt that much my race weight was most likely around 2870lbs what was your 3000lbs? ill give 1 1/2 tenths there if thats the diff.

But i stand by this you wont touch SR's times going to 7000 rpm.

And by enter and exit he means when your tach needle lands after a shift make sure the car is at the best power point to continue its march the fastest it can towards the next shift.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

JClaw is right about the stock IM. Even with a wide gear spaced 5 speed the stock 2k2 IM is garbage past 7000 rpm.



But this is why you need a different IM.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I don't *care* about SR's times that's what you don't seem to understand. I just want a 12.9, which will be more than doable once I get my ignition timing advanced.

Also my 13.32 was my first day ever on slicks. I did 13.32 with a very good 1.761 60 foot, but also did 13.35 with a 1.849 60 foot, with a 1.76 that was a 13.20. I think I can pull a 12 at less than 105.00 mph. Since then I have removed my intake butterfly valve which gives me a little more top end and no "lag" when it drops off after a shift. I also shift at 6600 (that's what the tach reads) instead of 6400 now.

That, combined with the traction bars I am working on, cooler weather, 4.16 final drive and ignition timing avance, should put me in the 13.0-12.9 range, and that is still with the crappy 2k2 manifold. That won't beat you or SR20DEN but I don't care about that, simple as that.

I know....

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Iam not saying he just throws a 9000rpm rev limit on his car iam saying he needs to get a powerband that will allow him to rev higher and pull there.
I say use the tires for gear down and stay out of 4th gear and get yourself a 7500 rev cut

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You mean do both? If you're going to use the stock rev range there is little point to using a shorter final drive.

Using a shorter final does not change the shift percentages even though you go through the gears quicker.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Point is, it'll make me faster. I read that F-bodies usually gain 0.2 and 1 mph going from 3.42 to 3.73.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I don't see my times to be as significant as my trap speeds.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

This isn't an F-body. And it won't make you noticeably faster. I've told you this before.


Once you jump to the VQ35, the gearing becomes far less significant for drag racing. Unless you move the powerband.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I don't know man, the 5-speed flywheel is pretty light

krismax

iTrader: (15)

i dont care if you trap 120 if your et is within range its simple as that within range. If you live up to the 108 potential then thats a diff story.
But we can only chase whats been done not what could be done.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

108 mph= 12.5, or potential for.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

And that should help.


If you only knew howmany times I got Pwnt by a certain 2k2 Auto from 0-60, 20-60, etc.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Damn. Why do we always have to walk in the dark. Sometimes I wish I had a Honda, they have everything so easy, everything's been done and travelled through.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Im fine with making all of the gears more aggressive.. How do I do it?

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You want to spend $12k on a 4 banger to make 200whp? You go ahead with that plan sparky.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

What I mean is that they have it easy because so many people have been there before, and because the aftermarket is so significant. At the last Sport Compact Event at my track, the All motor champ pulled a 12.19 at 113 mph in an all motor CRX. Sure, all of the all motor cars running 12s were gutted, but 113 mph in an N/A 4-banger is moving.

With the maxima there's never anybody to tell you what to do, how to do it, and what mod to get next. I guess that's the price we have to pay for being original.

Buy the final drive gear from a 1988-1989 Pulsar (1.8L engine ONLY). It is 4.167 instead of 3.823 (stock). You can also use 3.895 or 4.471, but 3.89 isn't worth it and 4.47 is VERY aggressive. If you have a 3.0 4.471 might be worth considering but with my 3.5 the 4.16 will be high enough for me.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

They do have a huge aftermarket but in order for them to have cars that fast they still have to spend BIG bucks and setup the cars perfectly. And how many of them, percentage wise, do you think could beat you on the street OR the track? Few to start with. Now take that and omit the ones who only spent as much as you did.


No one giving you advice? Excuse me? WTH have Krismaxx, myself and many others been doing the whole time?

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

That's not what I mean. How many of us are actually interested in running 12s N/A? It seems like there's a dozen of us, tops. The rest are saving their money for 19-inch bling.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Iam actually glad its like this i go to my track and the only maximas there other than me ,are the ones sitting in the spectator parking lot.
And i like going thru junkyards looking for parts for example i just found a complete pathy IM setup with tb and ill be testing it. and with the 3.5 parts plentiful like honda parts or will be we stepped up to a aftermarket supported engine.

and the gearing issue i would just locate a 00-01 tranny and call it a day . because with your low geared slicks and with a higher and better powerband i would be afraid of your times.
The way you have to think about it is your probably making good power lower than you need to because at say 5000 were you launch? the power that is made below your launch point is usless on the track so all iam saying is move the powerband up alittle rev higher .

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I launch it off the rev limiter (6550). I actually make most of my power between 4500 and 6500. It really comes alive past 4k. No VTC/No VIAS= less low end. Sometimes I almost floor it in first (off idle) and it doesn't start spinning until 4000 (on street tires, when the track is sticky). Getting to 4k faster would certainly help me. I'd like to move the power up a little more (between 5000 and 7000) but no higher than that.

With the more aggressive gearing I would just launch it at 5000 instead of 6500, not to break 'em loose.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

You can add me to that list... but I'm going to be a bit behind you guys for a while because puchasing a house is sucking all the money up. The 00VI is just a "tide-me-over."

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Im not following this... This would only change the 5th gear ratio... How would it make all of the gears more aggressive? What do I not know about this that would explain that kind of fact... To me it seems like a gear is a gear, and it's ratio is independent of the others..

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Oh, OK sorry, I re-read this thread and I get it now. Its not the 5th gear but the final gear, and the final gear is the gear that gets multiplied (factored) by every other gear. Sweet! So all I need to do is find the gear you were talking about (I think with my 3.0 I would want the 4.47)
Where would I find the 4.47?
Should I get it cryo-treated (if it comes from a 1.8L engine-based trannie)?

STOKED to get this done.. Man, the car will be friggin born again.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Nobody has done this before. I guess you can start by calling transmission shops to see if they can sell you individual gears. The dealer wanted 191$cnd for the 4.47 final drive. Ridiculous.

Also you should know that at 75 mph on the highway you will be reving at 3500 instead of 3000. The 4.16 is a milder jump, 3250 instead of 3000, which I can live with, but 3500 is pretty high IMO.

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

I can deal with $100 bucks for the part. What would I say is the "source"- what kind of car? A Nissan for sure, right? but which- a Pulsar? Year/Model?

Would it be something more "universal"

Since you are advising a bit of caution, I would also think that considering a 4.16 final drive and replacing the 3rd gear would be perhaps the best of both worlds- 3rd gear is still really hard-pulling, 4th is more than stock, and I can still cruise the freeway at a reasonable RPM.
I would hope that the 7K rev limited would mean that the rather big drop that I would get in RPMs from top of 3rd to 4th would be liveable.

Any suggestions? While I am getting the work done, it seems like doing the 3rd gear would not be too much extra hassle... Of course Im no expert on this stuff