JClaw

iTrader: (17)

HIS 02VI is certainly better than the 00VI, but I doubt the stock 02 IM is any better than the 00VI. It peaks almost 1000 rpms lower and has a bouncy/chaotic curve vs the 00 VI's super flar curve. 00-01 make almost as much power as 02+ when nearing redline.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

I had really thought about that, but even if the 02VI is crappy, it basically makes the same specific output as the DE-K, albeit at a lower RPM.

222hp/3L=74hp/L
255hp/3.5L=72.85hp/L

What about the 04/05 maxima engines? I saw a picture of the lower intake plenum and it looked more like the 350z lower.

Z33
http://www.doubleshotsindustries.com...cs/350zLIM.bmp

A34 top, A33 bottom
http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/images/im-01-small.jpg

Look at the kinetix manifold:
http://www.kinetixracing.com/index.a...ProdID=12&HS=1

If you take the A34 manifold picture and rotate it CCW by 90deg, it looks like it would fit the kinetix manifold.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

First off, Nissan's advertised HP ratings are crap. At the wheels, 2k2 6-speeds typically put down 205whp/220wtq while 2k1 5-speed typically put down 190whp/190wtq.

That would be:

190whp/3L=63.33WHP/L
205whp/3.5L=58.57WHP/L

Not taking into account that, in addition to having 0.5L more of displacement, the 3.5 has more aggressive cams, better flowing heads and more timing, so the 00-01 IM is doing a really good job of countering these advantages.

The FWD version of the 3.5 is tuned down, the real, ***** out version of this engine is the 350z version:

240whp/3.5L=68.57WHP/L

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

Was it you or Tilley that originally had the 3.0heads and 00vi on the 3.5bottom end? Didn't it dyno at 225whp with a couple of bolt-ons?

You hear anything more about the IM that the altima guys were trying to get maded for the 3.5? I saw some threads about it, but they were back in may.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Tilley dynoed 226whp/205wtq with a 00VI wired completely open and 3.0 heads. He dynoed 233whp/230wtq with full 3.5. That 25wtq comes from the 3.5 heads and cams IMO.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

i think the swap is worth it. costing me around 1500 roughly. i'm just nervous if i know all the info. seems to get more complicated everytime. people usually use the 3.5 injectors through soldering? also... tilley doing the prep work will make things nearly plug and play?

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Ask him if he can prep it with the 00 VI, might as well keep the same powerand, just move it up with more displacement and better heads.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

Full bolt on 3.0L with some tuning will yeild you more power than these 4th gen swapped in 3.5Ls. I have a full tune 3.0L and laugh at these 3.5L swapped 4th gen numbers, why all that work and still so little power ?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Man you're just a hater. If a 3.5 swapped 4th gen got crap extrude honed like you did and got a full tune (ignition timing advance and a/f tuning) and got a better intake manifold they would blow ANY 3.0 out of the water. Why don't you let us all know how extensive your mod list is. Cus i know for damn sure your numbers aren't typical among DE-K's...

The only reason these 4th gen 3.5 swap guys aren't putting down more power is because the stock 3.0 ECU doesn't provide as much ignition timing advance as a stock 3.5 ECU. These are raw, untuned setups. Wait til these guys start to modify the ignition and a/f maps. Not only that, but for someone that knows so much about cars, you should know that peak numbers don't mean ****.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

If you're going to do the swap, def. do some weight reduction. The maxima responds very well when reducing weight. My car feels a lot slower with a 200lb friend in the car. It even feels slower with my 110lb GF in the car as well.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

The DE-K hits a wall around 200whp. The 3.5 even with the suck @$$ intake manifold makes around 230whp with h/i/e. With tuning and once we get a decent intake manifold, most of us should have numbers similar to SR20DEN-250-260whp.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

whooosh! i'll see what i can do with my 00VI, this will provide some more power up top, no? so is it the VQ35 ECU that offers more timing advance than the VQ30 ECUs? no way i'm going with a VQ35 ECU, VTC doesn't bother me, i'll reduce some weight tho... i'm not going all out extensive with this car for track, but i want a quality torque-y beast tuned right. two thumbs up to N/A

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

You won't be able to easily connect your 00vi to the 3.5 heads. I don't think anyone has done that. The 3.0 heads with the 00vi would get similiar top end power, but less torque than the 3.5 heads with the 02VI.

Use the 3.5 heads, they flow better and the cams are more aggressive. Use the $hitty-@$$ 02VI for now until someone makes a good one for the 3.5.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

aha, do we have to modify the 3.5 cams? or is that the 3.0 cams we have to put spacers on?? or am i just completely wrong.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

You have to drill a couple of holes in the 3.5 intake cams to use the 3.0 timing, and buy spacers.

I just did some more reading and Tilley used the 00vi and port matched it to fit on 3.5 heads.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Why don't you beat our times then? Krismax ran 13.3 on drag radials at 1100 ft altittude with an IM that doesn't even line up to the heads correctly and I'm trapping 105 mph. Who gives a sh*t about peak numbers, I mean really? Do you get torque steer in 3rd gear?

Seriously, our VQ35's, in their current state, are the rough equivalent of a stock ECU, untuned, stock rev limit 95-99 USIM with H/I/E, that's it. And they're putting down roughly 220+whp. How much are H/I/E 95-99 3.0L putting down? 180whp? I don't even know what my A/F is and you know how crappy the 2k2 intake manifold is.

Also don't forget real power vs peak power. There has yet to be ANY N/A 3.0L beating my times, Krismax's or Tilley's times, street tires, drag radials or slicks respectively. And it's been out for 11 years. Peak numbers mean precisely jack if they don't stack up at the track. Dyno numbers are for bragging.

Are you not aware of how much more timing 2k2's are running? Tilley put down 238whp and when he checked his timing with a pocket logger he was amazed at how sh*tty it was. He ran 13.30 with stock ecu. How many 3.0L are running low 13s on stock ECU and intake manifold?

Why don't you cut us some slack, sit back and wait for us to get respectable intake manifolds, A/F and timing tuning, and extended rev limiters? Once again, just look at SR20DEN's numbers, 263 whp is far beyond and above anything a stock cammed, strock internals/compression 3.0L could achieve.

The DE-K is a refined, smooth and well massaged version of the 3.0L. The FWD 3.5L is a raw, all low end version of the 3.5L. You know how flat the dyno curves of a 350z are? Similar to a DE-K, yet 45-50whp higher. Stop trying to justify having the last of the 3.0's. 3 litres are smoother than the 3.5 and that's where the advantages end. I've had both and would never go back to the original motor.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

do you think the 00vi used in the VQ35 would be a better idea than using the 02VI??? maybe for now right? but later, when we get a better intake manifold, the 00VI will be useless in terms of the 3.5 potential?

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I honestly don't know. Ideally I would go with SR20DEN's IM but he can,t produce them right now so I'm sticking with the original IM, and finding other ways of making my car faster (lighter wheels and a 4.47 final drive ratio).

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

ahhh, i could never understand the final drive ratio? or gearing... always confuses me. well actually, nobody has explained really. aren't you running 5.5 gen wheels? do you have a lgihtweight flywheel?

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Stock flywheel and stock 15-inch sawblades. Final drive basically multiplies all of your gears. Our stock final drive is 3.82 so changing for 4.47 makes all of the gears shorter/more aggressive and results in faster acceleration.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

It also makes for more shifting which MIGHT result in no net acceleration gain. Have you asked someone to run a Cartest simulation for you?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

well i finally have my vias on my 00 VI but as for now its set on low end it it feels great down low. I cant wait to get my summit wired up weds to feel it high and low together for the first time.
thats also the same day i go racing with slicks,i will have results late weds night for anyone who wants to see them.

so my changes as full working 00 vi ,M&H slicks 24.5x8.5 -15 on I 30 bbs,new wheel bearing (was bad for awhile) and XXX LBS less

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

Do you have the 00VI on the 3.5? Did you use the DE-K lower as well?

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

I believe SR20DEN switched out his 02 6spd for a 04 6spd and thus has the higher final gear ratio. He pulled a 12.8 in the 1/4.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Yeah....ive never not had it on my 3.5 .ive never used any other IM on my 3.5, 00 vi was put on when the 3.5 was swapped in.

it bolts on fine to the 3.5 heads but doesnt come close to lining up and there not even the same shaped ports ones round and smaller the others oval and bigger ,and they overlap

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

So what did you do then? Keep the 3.5 lower and port match it to the DE-K upper? Have you dyno'd it?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

nope iam using dek upper and lower i used a dremil to get it to line up "better" but its still not right.

no dyno, when i get a tuning tool i will dyno and tune

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I already have to shift in 4th gear, just barely. For now I finish the 1/4 mile around 5200 rpms in 4th gear, I only spend about 2 seconds in 4th gear so I'm totally wasting the 4th gear shift.

With the 4.47 final drive ratio I'll be finishing around 6100 and possibly 6200-6300 if I trap higher so that would be perfect. I asked Neal for a Cartest simulation and it resulted in being 0.2 faster, however that was on smaller diameter tires, so Cartest had me shifting (just BARELY) into 5th gear at 6300 rpms because it says it is the optimal 4th to 5th shift point.

My street tires, however, are about 1 inch taller, and I will certainly NEVER shift into 5th gear, so I am expecting the car to be more like 0.3 faster. We'll see. I no longer have slicks so I'm hoping for a 13.5 or 13.4 (taking into account poorer traction in 1st) on street tires.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

How's it running? Does the top end scream like the DE-K's?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

i have great ,top end feels almost like my 3.0 did with dek IM

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

Where does everyone get these 00vi's? There's none on car-part.com that are fed spec.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Haha...you're kidding right?The 00VI is the intake manifold that comes on all 2000-2001 maximas which means you already have one...

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

I know, I'm selling my 2k and getting a 97 to put the 3.5 into. I can't just take off the 00vi on my 2k and then sell it.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

ahah, that'd suck for the next owner.

what's the best combo swap since i have a 00 max. which means that i have the 00VI, de-k lower and upper? what's the VIAS on the 00VI? i'm learning new sheeit every day. you guys nearly hammered down this swap and get the right final drive just right.

if final drive is higher, how does this affect highway driving at per say 80mph???

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Well I'm going with a lower 5th gear, so my highway rpms will go up just a little.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

VIAS=Variable Intake Air System, just another name for 00vi.

I think the consensus is that the 00vi is better on the 3.5heads until SR20DE makes us a manifold or Crawford Z. If SR20DE doesn't start selling his manifold soon, he'll never make any money off of it because someone else will beat him to the punch.

If you put a larger final drive, your 5th gear at 80mph will suck so much @ss, a lot more than it already does.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

yeah mine seems pretty high, sucks yes. so a larger final drive equals shorter 1-4 gears which can lead to better acceleration, but slightly higher RPMs when in 5th?

sucks that 350z heads won't fit. why won't the IM fit the maxima VQ35??

also, what makes the 02IM so bad?

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Seriously, I'm surprised you're still considering this swap. Unless you have extensive mods on your current Max and/or you want to spend all the time and money and head-scratching just to say you did an engine swap, it CLEARLY is ten times simpler to sell your car and buy an '02. If you sell and buy private party, you can probably do this for less than $1500 and then you'll have the 3.5 in a 2K2 Max with a 6-speed transmission to boot, and all the features of the VQ35 working.

Once you do that, then you can swap a LSD in or somethign if you still need to do some major DIY work.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Be prepared for the softer chassis on the 4th gen and fewer features...but it's worth it because the 4th gen looks much better than the 5th gen, IMO (plus you have more power than a 2000 Max). We are about to have subframe connectors engineered for us 4th gens, which will tighten up the chassis nicely, so you can always go that route.

HarrisH

iTrader: (1)

Dude the 4th gen is considerably less weight than the 5.5 gen. A lot of these 4th gen guys that are swapping have time and $ invested so dropping a 3.5 does seem sensible. Maintaining 3.0 Timing equipment allows you to use FI (SC's, TC's, etc.). A 5 speed is no better than a 6 speed. The only downside is the VTC which we can do without since we are lighter and would have more wheel spin if he had the VTC.