Anybody know if the 2004 will work the same as the 2002's in a 4th Gen?

 

Yes, it should work. I am PRETTY sure the mounts are in the same locations.

 

I looked on car-part.com and they show 2002 and 2003 together but if you look for a 2004 they don't list lower years so something is different, I just don't know what.

 

To my knowledge, no one's done it yet.

It's probably because they're totally different body styles. The car-part.com search for a 02-03 maxima engine will not show you altima 3.5, quest, or murano engines, but we know for a fact that they will work in a 4th gen.

I think that a 04/05 engine would be preferable since it's newer. It also has a different intake manifold. I think they do actually make a little more power since the the 6th gens run the same 1/4 mile times as the 5.5gen while being almost 300lbs heavier. Some of that is clearly due to the fact that they have a more aggressive final gear, and some or all of the rest of it may be due to ECU.

I have a 2005 maxima engine w/800 miles on it waiting to be dumped into my 97 max. We'll see if there's any additional difficulties.

 

Actually car-part.com does show the altima, murano and infinity with a Max search because thats how I found the one I have now.

I hate to pass up this deal but I do already have the 2k2 Altima engine sitting in the shop. The guy with the 2004 wants $600 for engine and trans with less than 10k on it.

 

Well, I don't remember seeing other models when I was searching; but I'll take your word for it.

$600 for an engine and tranny with 10k on it is a steal. I would jump all over that.

 

The Maxima and Altima have the same platform. And I think a few members have swapped the engine from the Altima so I am pretty sure the 04 Max engine will work too.
The reason the 04 Max engine shows up differently from the 02-03 is because wireing and I believe in 04, they went back to the EGR system.

 

having an egr system might be better for passing emmissions. I'm sure that quite a lot of places would raise a stink if you show up in a 4th gen max w/o an external egr valve. It would be a pain to prove to them that the exhaust cams play the role.

 

This thing comes with the MAF, air box and computer as well. I am going to try for it, will know this afternoon after I come back from the races.

 

Damn dude, find me a deal like that.

 

I know that the Altima, Murano, and Pathy all have the same 3.5 . But does that mean just the block is the same or are the Block, Heads, AND IM all the same??

 

Pathfinder is different. Way different.

 

Mallfinder and 350Z are RWD and will not swap in without extensive modification. The Quest, maxima, altima, I35, and murano engines are all the same. The Mallfinder has a different IM than the FWD 3.5. The 350Z/G35 IM is also different.

The block and heads for all are the same internally. The RWD blocks have different mounting locations than the FWD blocks.

 

do you plan on dropping this setup into a 4th gen with the 04 tranny and ecu?

that would be the way i would do it

 

That's been tried and it's an absolute nightmare. Vsy tried it, but he had a donor car in which he swapped over a bunch of stuff from an 02.

Go read some of Jclaw's old posts when he was trying to do that. He was using a 02 altima ECU with the 5speed. The biggest issue is with the BCU of the 4th gen. Your cruise control, power windows, locks, etc won't work with the newer ECU.

 

thing i've always had trouble understanding is why the locks, windows and other none ecu related things wont work. unless those things are now controlled by the ecu in newer maximas

 

What about the Murano Drivetrain? The AWD transmission has possibilities...

Its not like I would ever do this myself, but I am just curious?

Does anyone have a Murano FSM?

 

Try going to the murano forums. Making a max AWD would be more difficult than making it RWD. If Nissan would pull their head out, they would make the maxima RWD. FWD is not deserving of the power/TQ the VQ puts out.

 

Yes. But the 2k4 upper has EGR so you'll need to block that off or use your 2k2 upper.

 

There are some internal differences too. i.e. pistons and such. I know Stephen could elaborate on this a little more.

 

Jime, did you score on the 2004??????? Great price - around the Midwest they run around $2-3K US bucks.......

 

Yep. The Pathfinder VQ35 has flat pistons that keep the CR at 10.0:1, vs the slightly domed pistons that the Maxima/Altima/350Z engines have, giving them a 10.3:1 CR.

The Pathfinder VQ35 also has intake ports that are identical to VQ30 ports, and uses a bucket and shim valve lifter setup like the VQ30. The Pathy bucket and shim are lighter than the VQ30 bucket and shim, but heavier than the VQ35 tappets.

Everything else is the same internally.

 

I can confirm that the 04/05 engines can be swapped into the 4th gen. The mounts are in the same spots and everything appears identical to the 02-03 engines with the IM being slightly different, but still a POS.

 

I second that. I was ripping my eyeballs out, that stuff is so off the wall, especially since I had never taken an engine out beforehand. Taking the 3.5, 3.0 and transmission apart was a total piece of cake, a real joke compared to even attempting that.

That was the way I saw it at first. The thing that really f*cks everything up is drive by wire. Sure, you can simply swap in the main harness and not worry about anything else, but then oh no, the drive by wire harness is part of the body/electrical harness, a bunch of taped-together wires the size of your d*ck, pick and choose, find the good one, then you have to buy the steering column from a 02 Altima or Maxima, rip both apart, and try to fit the ignition equipment from the newer car in the older colum, which leads to another problem, oops, the airbags are on the same harness, so won't work. Then oops, you're trying to fit the 02 Altima drive-by-wire gas pedal and it wont fit, it should be on the floor right where the steering column base is. No problem, just try to shape/weld some complex bracket there so the gas pedal is where it should be. Then you have to drill 2 1-1.5" holes in your firewall, because the 02 Altima has more electrical hardware in the front than your 4th gen does, and those harnesses are essential because, remember, the drive by wire (10-12 wires I believe) is part of it, so you have to use it, that means you have to rip apart your entire interior, and hope to hell that the 02 Altima you got it from has a sunroof if you have one, if not, no more sunroof. Then, you have to hope as hell the wires will plug into your electric door motors, and oops, they don't, so you have to buy the 02 Altima door motors for your electrical windows to work, that's in addition to the engine (1 grand), and another grand's worth of ECU, 3 complete wiring harnesses and an electronic gas pedal whose signal no one can crack. So you hope like sh*t that the electrical door motors from the Altima will fit in your 4th gen, but the f*ckers won't! So now you gotta weld complicated brackets into your doors (!!), thus adding weight to your car, just to make the f*cking window motors work! Then you have to rewire all connectors for every single light in the car, and hope to hell the gauge cluster from the 02 Altima works in your dash... oops, it doesn't. No problem, right? Just cut the dash apart. Then you have to fit all the electrical hardware in the engine bay, in a platform that wasn't made for it. Fans? Radiator? AC? Forget it. And the transmission? Nope, not the same sensor, plug is different, aw sh*t car won't start, you need the immobilizer. Big black box. No problem, go back to a junkyard, if you can find one that'll sell it to you. Oops, sold. Get the immobilizer from another car, right? Sh*t, the ECU, ignition key, and immobilizer ALL MUST come from the same car, so if the immobilizer doesn't match the ECU and ignition key of the very same car, it won't start, ever, and since you don't have the same exact immobilizer, means you're quite completely f*cked now, doesn't it?

Call me ignorant and unimaginative, but I would rather f*ck a box of razor blades than try that again. Go ahead and try it...

..if you have a gigantic pair of ***** and a ridiculous amount of time on your hands. My car pulls hard enough as it is, thank you very much, I don't really need more torque below 4k.

No, really, I mean really, no.

 

so im gonna assume u didnt enjoy the same experience as vy did with his swap.... if i ever do this swap ill probally take the same route as u did

 

Vsy had a parts car that he was able to cannabalise from which greatly simplifies things. And vsy didn't do it, his brother did it for him.

 

and that is where you are wrong. people need to stop spreading false info. and yes the parts car made everything easier. it all comes down to time and money and patience.

 

The extra money I would have to lay down just to gain maybe 15wtq under 3000 rpm is not worth it. Plus, I have yet to see anyone prove me that a full 3.5 swap is really faster. When I race I use 4500 to 6500 rpms.

 

so assuming from many of the replies ne one who attempts this is crazy..and not pratical..and a person w/ that much money is proabably better off going the FI route...correct?

 

attempts what? Putting a 3.5 in a 4th gen? Many have done it, I'm doing it next week. Putting a 3.5 in with a 5.5gen or 6th gen ECU? I'm putting my 3.5 in for about $1400. FI costs more than that, is less reliable, and a PITA.

The $tealin supercharger for the 4th gen gives about the same gains as putting a 3.5 in a 4th gen. If you get a smaller pulley for the $tealin, you can make more boost, but there's a limit to how much you can boost and it costs $4000.

 

i know its been done. ive seen tilleys car in person and some other cars in ny who have had it done...but the question still remains..through all the trials and tribulations is it still worthwhile..dont get me wrong i have 2k auto..and im seriously debating whether i should FI my 3.0 or swap to reliable 3.5 w/5 spd...but is it gonna be worth the extra 15-25hp low end people are gaining, is the question/..?

 

You get more than 15-25hp on the low end. The 3.5 is a torque monster. You'll gain about 30hp on the top end.

If you have a 2k auto, you'd be better off ditching it and buying a 2002 or a 4th gen and swapping in the 3.5. With the 2k, you'll be heavier and without the VTC and be slower than a 4th gen 3.5 or a 5.5gen.

 

.....

 

my questions remains if i keep my immobolizer and other sensors will they make an ses light... since i have a 2k..they have got to be similar in some aspects..the full 3.5 ecu should be able to work without much work..correct?

 

If you want to use the 3.5 ECU, you must replace the immobilizer and ignition switch. The ECU, immobilizer, and ignition switch all have to match.