speedemn

iTrader: (14)

I have a 1995 SE 5-spd with JWT ECU (NA programming).

Can someone please look at these values that I logged and let me know if they look normal or low or strange please? All of these values were recorded at WOT in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear respectively. I am not so sure about the throttle position only showing as 27-29% at WOT. It shows over 90% when I am close to WOT, and then drops at WOT... ???

Also please have a look at my ignition advance timing and let me know what you guys think.

I do have a hidden KS code, which might affect the timing - should it not be higher at WOT? But the throttle position has always been weird like this... could something be faulty with the JWT programming or is it something else?

Thanks.

P.S. If the numbers are hard to read below, please PM me and I can send you an Excel spreadsheet with the values. I would appreciate any help that I can get.



Engine RPM Speed Ignition Advance Throttle Position Time

2nd Gear

1575RPM 17MPH 17Deg 27.00% 1.141
2062.5RPM 19MPH 25Deg 28.00% 2.078
2700RPM 23MPH 24Deg 29.00% 3.031
3375RPM 29MPH 17Deg 29.00% 3.984
4037.5RPM 39MPH 18Deg 29.00% 4.938
4700RPM 43MPH 22Deg 29.00% 5.891
5375RPM 48MPH 24Deg 28.00% 6.844
5962.5RPM 58MPH 28Deg 29.00% 7.797
6450RPM 63MPH 29Deg 29.00% 8.75
6862.5RPM 67MPH 36Deg 28.00% 9.688
5012.5RPM 71MPH 22Deg 28.00% 10.641
5212.5RPM 75MPH 23Deg 29.00% 11.594
5537.5RPM 80MPH 24Deg 28.00% 15.313
6375RPM 95MPH 29Deg 29.00% 16.266
6537.5RPM 95MPH 29Deg 28.00% 17.219
6700RPM 98MPH 30Deg 27.00% 18.172
6787.5RPM 101MPH 0Deg 35.00% 19.125
4525RPM 101MPH 0Deg 35.00% 20.078
2650RPM 91MPH 0Deg 35.00% 21.031

3rd Gear

1412.5RPM 20MPH 37Deg 45.00% 0.922
1500RPM 20MPH 19Deg 28.00% 1.875
1812.5RPM 25MPH 22Deg 28.00% 2.828
2112.5RPM 29MPH 24Deg 28.00% 3.781
2425RPM 31MPH 25Deg 28.00% 4.734
2762.5RPM 39MPH 24Deg 28.00% 5.687
3075RPM 43MPH 23Deg 28.00% 6.64
3412.5RPM 46MPH 17Deg 28.00% 7.594
3737.5RPM 54MPH 17Deg 28.00% 8.765
4150RPM 57MPH 18Deg 28.00% 9.719
4487.5RPM 65MPH 19Deg 28.00% 10.672
4812.5RPM 68MPH 21Deg 28.00% 11.625
5125RPM 73MPH 23Deg 28.00% 12.578
5437.5RPM 79MPH 24Deg 28.00% 13.531
5712.5RPM 82MPH 25Deg 28.00% 14.484
5975RPM 85MPH 26Deg 28.00% 15.437
6212.5RPM 91MPH 27Deg 28.00% 16.39
6462.5RPM 93MPH 27Deg 28.00% 17.344
6675RPM 98MPH 28Deg 28.00% 18.297
6887.5RPM 101MPH 28Deg 98.00% 19.234
5675RPM 103MPH 23Deg 29.00% 20.187
5387.5RPM 107MPH 24Deg 28.00% 21.14

4th Gear

1362.5RPM 26MPH 17Deg 27.00% 0.922
1462.5RPM 28MPH 18Deg 28.00% 1.875
1662.5RPM 30MPH 19Deg 28.00% 2.828
1787.5RPM 32MPH 22Deg 28.00% 4.016
1950RPM 37MPH 23Deg 27.00% 4.969
2112.5RPM 39MPH 24Deg 27.00% 5.906
2262.5RPM 43MPH 25Deg 27.00% 6.86
2425RPM 46MPH 25Deg 27.00% 7.813
2575RPM 48MPH 25Deg 27.00% 8.766
2737.5RPM 53MPH 25Deg 27.00% 9.719
2875RPM 56MPH 24Deg 27.00% 10.672
3025RPM 57MPH 24Deg 28.00% 11.625
3187.5RPM 62MPH 23Deg 28.00% 12.578
3337.5RPM 64MPH 18Deg 27.00% 13.531
3500RPM 68MPH 17Deg 27.00% 14.485
3650RPM 70MPH 18Deg 27.00% 15.438
3775RPM 73MPH 18Deg 27.00% 16.391
3937.5RPM 78MPH 17Deg 27.00% 17.563
4100RPM 79MPH 17Deg 27.00% 18.516
4237.5RPM 82MPH 18Deg 27.00% 19.469
4375RPM 85MPH 18Deg 28.00% 20.422
4512.5RPM 87MPH 19Deg 27.00% 21.375
4650RPM 91MPH 20Deg 28.00% 22.328
4787.5RPM 93MPH 20Deg 28.00% 23.266
4900RPM 96MPH 21Deg 28.00% 24.219
5012.5RPM 98MPH 22Deg 28.00% 25.172
5125RPM 101MPH 23Deg 28.00% 26.125
5237.5RPM 102MPH 23Deg 22.00% 27.078
5300RPM 106MPH 25Deg 35.00% 28.031

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Put your data in the form of a graph and compare it against this:



I have some JWT data from other people that I can email to you.

speedemn

iTrader: (14)

I would appreciate the JWT data that you have from other people - anish.ghosh@[removethis]rogers.com

I will plot my data in a graph like yours and post it.

Thanks!

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Here is a real screen filler for you. I apologize to those who are running horizontal resolutions of less than 1600.



Speedmn: I will email you the .xls file.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Dave please send me the JWT data also. I too need to datalog my ECU timing, I'm not sure it's doing what it should. Hurry up with that EU update Greddy!

dvrditar @ hotmail dot com (no spaces)


Anish: I've got better software than your scanner that we can use to generate a nice graph for you... give me a call.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Your 4th gear timing data doesn't look too different from the other JWT ecu data, but the lower gears look significantly lower, especially in the mid-rpm range.

First thing I would do is resolve the TPS and KS issues, then retest.

speedemn

iTrader: (14)

I don't have a TPS issue... just the hidden KS code (P0325) but timing does not seem to be pulled that much (or is it possible that a slightly bad KS will only pull a little timing?)

I did get a P0400 as well... so that valve MIGHT be sticking on occasion... I don't think that would pull timing though, would it?

krismax

iTrader: (15)

MY TPS like i have posted before runs always at 28% even at idle and when i go wot sometimes the tps will start going up and timing drops fast,my timing is terrible and my tps never goes below 28% and never goes as high as it should.

this is JWT that did this not my ecu i have tried diff ecu's and the TPS is perfect. and ive had this ecu dynoed on other cars and it shows a nogainer.
I do have a special rev cut and i wonder if they made it diff because with race gas it seems to be better.

speedemn

iTrader: (14)

Kris, do you think that my JWT ECU might be faulty because of the incorrect TPS reading (assuming that my TPS works fine with my regular ECU) or is the JWT programming somehow incompatible with OBDII scanners?

What do other JWT ECU members have for TPS readings at WOT? As you can see, mine is 27% - 28% at WOT. Does that mean that my car is only really operating at about 1/4 throttle when I am WOT? haha

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The WOT ignition timing map is probably not even being triggered.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

It is a possibility, and I think it needs to be addressed. I have a JWT ecu (SC program), and I get normal TPS readings, i.e. .35 V at idle and 4.1 V at WOT with a linear increase in TPS voltage as the throttle is opened. I datalog the TPS voltage directly from the wiring harness at the ecu, though. I've never checked how it looks using an OBDII scanner. My SAFC records 100% at WOT.

Playboycutie69

Hey eng92 what is that TS2 on the graph? Is it the newest Technosquare chip available now?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

If i recall TS2 is after he sent his ECU back to TS to get different timing since he didn't like the original timing data he had.

Playboycutie69

Thanks. Wonder how exactly did he explain to them how to fix it.

xloki77x

iTrader: (3)

i have a mevi with no ecu...yet. TS or JWT?

Playboycutie69

I aint no expert but I think they both offer basically the same thing since TS has the 7200 rev limiter now also. But I know JWT has like a 6 month wait after you send you ecu. SOmeone here will have to tell uthe difference in power gains, etc.

speedemn

iTrader: (14)

TS is reputed to be a little more aggressively tuned... more of a bump in timing in the midrange and top end than JWT. But some people who have actually logged their timing have found little to no difference. I spoke to JWT about this and their response is that there are too many factors that come into play for timing - air temp, humidity, coolant temp, etc etc... so they were not able to give me an answer on what range of timing I should expect.

I am not sure what the price is of the two ECUs now. I have a JWT that I got years ago with the 7200RPM cut.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

As of the last time I checked TS can only raise the rev limiter on auto ECUs. If they could do it reliably on 5 speed ECUs no one would be buying JWT ECUs anymore, but unfortunately that's not the case.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

6 months, not really, more like 6 weeks.

But still Nealoc187

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Last time I talked to Technosquare (a few months back) they couldn't guarantee the rev limit would work on all auto's either. Brian told me it was a problem with different versions of the ECU, not auto vs manual.

speedemn

iTrader: (14)

I had to wait over 6 months for my JWT ECU. I sent it off in the Winter, 2 years ago and did not get it back until the end of the Fall.

In any case, I guess JWT is the only tuner who can raise the rev limit, so for now the better timing of the TS is not as much of a benefit for MEVI'd people.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Wow, you got I would have rasied he//. I did, and got mine in 6 weeks to the day ...

Hopefully TS will do what they need to do in order to get JWT out of the loop.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

My JWT ECU took about 11 weeks. Sent it beginning of January 2003 got it very end of March.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

To get accurate results when logging timing and comparing it from ECU to ECU or car to car your either gonna want to bypass the knock sensor with a resistor or even unbolt it and wrap a towel around it. Even filling up with 100 octane should do it. If you leave the factory knock sensor in place you may get small amounts of knock for varoius reasons, nothing that is audiable but enough that the knock sensor may pull back timing a few degrees. You want the ECU to run at full advance and the only way to do that is to take the knock sensor out of the picture.

Also, your gonna get different results from car to car that has nothing to do with the timing advance the ECU is set at. One determination of timing is MAF voltage. I would assume that all the cars that are on that graph posted earlier are at different MAF voltages under WOT.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

But Mike wouldn't removing or disconnecting the KS cause the ECU to run under retarded timing instead of full advance? (see Dave's graphs above)

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

No, I said you need to bypass it. Not disconnect it. For accuate comparions between two different timing maps (ie; different ECU's) or two different Maxima's the knock sensor needs to be taken out of the equation. If it is left in place to do it's job then it may pull timing back here and there through the rpm range.

The graphs posted are nice information and interesting to see, but I would not make any decisions based on them. If one were to look at their timing compared to anothers and see theirs dip for a few hundred rpm's, then conclude that their ROM tune is not running all the advance it should be, could very well be a conlusion made on bad information.

What if car "X" is much more modified and doing these runs in hot weather. They could easily get a little bit of knock around peak torque and the knock sensor pull back timing ever so slightly for 500 rpm's or so. The driver would never hear it or notice it but look at their timing curve and think something is wrong compared to another guys car who may have minimal modifications and who logged is timing on a nice cool day which allowed him to run full timing advance with no interferance by the the knock sensor.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Oops, sorry... read too quickly.. I thought you said disconnect it. You're right bypassing is a different animal.

And I agree completely with the rest of your post. Depending on mods and conditions etc, the cars may hit different cells of the timing map or as you say, knock and experience slight retard etc.