This is getting to be my albatross.

I put in a 3.5 a few weeks ago and I still can't get the dam* thing started. It turns over just fine, but doesn't seem to be getting gas. If I unplug a fuel line, gas gushes out.

Sometimes after cranking, the injectors will continue to tick. WTF?

I'm using the 3.5 injectors with the 3.5 fuel rail. I put a tee in the line. Where exactly is the FPR? Is it connected to the firewall?

I sprayed some starter fluid in and it made a loud bang, I think it backfired. Is that possible if the timing is right? If there was piston interference issues, it wouldn't crank over fine would it? The engine didn't cough at all.

I know I had an issue before with the crank pos sensor because the tach would flutter during cranking which it no longer does.

I'm also getting a code right now for the MAF. In looking at the wiring diagram in the FSM...



What is F35? The "dropping resistor?" It doesn't seem to be on my harness and I'm 99% sure the MAF is plugged in the right spot.

 

That is a 4th gen EC harness diagram. Don't you have a 2000?
The stock fpr for a 3.5 is in the tank on the pump assembly.

What other codes do you have besides the one for the MAF?

Have you got spark?

 

Codes:

P0325 (KS)
P0100 (MAF circuit)
P0505 (idle control)

I get spark.

 

F35 is for automatic cars only...

Did you try cranking the car with the entire rail out?

Are you running a return or returnless setup?

 

Sound like you are running with no FPR. If you are running a 3.5 injectors, fuel rail with a 5th gen(3.0) fuel pump, you have no FPR since the FPR on a 4th and 5th gen is on the fuel rail. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

What MAF are you running? Stock? or 3.5?

 

Running no FPR is going to flood the engine I assume? Thus making it not start.....

 

The FPR keeps a certain amount of pressure in the fuel rail before it it is pumped back to the tank. If you dont have a FPR then the fuel will go directly back to the tank and the injectors will be starved hence no starting.
Which fuel rail set up are you using?
Choray

 

I bought an adjustable FPR from fleabay, but it doesn't seem to work. It doesn't hold any pressure. I connected it to teh hoses to it both ways and it doesn't hold any fuel pressure. So I ripped off part of the fuel rail from the 3.0L with the FPR and connected it to the tee and to the return line. It holds pressure now, but my battery's dead and being recharged, so I can't test it now.

 

I never trusted those FPR's on Febay........

 

You get what you pay for...heh...

 

Well, I got it started this morning!!! It runs like @$$, but at least I know I didn't screw something up when I put the cams in and the timing chain.

I ordered a 2002 PF TB and received it yesterday. I tried to put it on and the dam* mounting holes don't line up. I guess I'll need to drill and tap some new holes??

I might need to order a new MAF as well since the ECU is still throwing a code for it.

 

Congrats on getting it started.. For the PF TB, I would make an adapter plate for it.

 

I got some more time to work on it today. I took apart the ebay FPR and one of the gaskets inside wasn't put in correctly. I readjusted it and now it holds fuel pressure.

I got it started again and everything seems to be working well except that the timing chain seems to be making noise. D@mmit! Seems like it is the timing chain, but it could be one of the accessories as well.

Warm start seems to be a problem as well. It won't restart after I have it idling for awhile. It can't be the grounds since I have a jumper cable connecting the - battery terminal to the IM.

I haven't driven it yet because I haven't made a mount for the throttle cable yet.

 

My timing chain rattles a bit at startup also.

Do you mean it will not fire after it's been idleing? Or won't crank?

 

It cranks, and coughs a little but doesn't restart. It almost acts like a carb'd car that's flooded.

 

Maybe your base fuel pressure is too high.

I am pretty sure an engine needs more fuel to start up when it's cold.

 

I haven't been able to work on it lately because it's been too damned cold and I don't have a garage.

I took it for a drive around the block and it was completly gutless. Felt like it had 50hp. It doesn't rev freely at all and feels like it has a 100lb flywheel on it.

anyways, I tried using the 97 fpr and got the same result. I then found an exhaust leak where the Y pipe connects to the headers. I'm sure that the O2 sensor was reading a lean mixture because of this. Consequently, the ECU would run rich at least in closed loop.

I took the oil cap off when it was running and noticed there wasn't any oil splashing around under the valve cover. Why would that be? Could it be due to the PCV? The engine has plenty of oil in it. The oil light goes out while cranking. How does oil flow to the valve cover?

Compression? not sure about that one. I need to get a compression tester.

The noise I thought was coming from the timing chain, I now think is coming from the idler pulley.

Codes...I can't remember which ones I have, but I know they only relate to EVAP (not connected) and IACV (also not connected).

This has been the biggest pain in the *** I've ever had in my life. Makes me wish I would've bought a G35.

 

How does it rev when in neutral?

What TB are you using now, and have you read your TPS voltages?

It seems like a fuel problem. When you say you put the 97 fpr on, what FPR did you have on before? I'm taking a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing you need to raise the base fuel pressure.

Are you doing this swap in a 4th gen or your 5th gen?

 

If I rev it in neutral, it will rev to redline, but not freely. It feels like it has a 100lb flywheel. I've used both the 97FPR and the ebay adjustable FPR. I've tried 35 to 50psi of fuel pressure.

It still has difficulty starting which makes me think it is a fuel problem as well. But I don't want to start or drive it until I figure out why the cams aren't getting any oil.

I'm doing the swap on my 4th gen.

 

I believe the oil flows through the first cam bracket (right behind the cam gears) and flows through the actual cam and out little holes just inside each of the cam brackets.

 

hmm, maybe I accidently blocked off an oil passage with rtv sealent when I put the camshaft brackets on...

I'll have to check the TPS voltages also.

 

Have you fixed your maf? For the sound of it, your rev problems seems more of a MAF problem than TPS. What maf are you running and is it wired right? Your first posts said that you have a cel for that so I think thats something to look into. A bad maf would definitely cause rev issues also if I were you, I would get a wideband o2. It will tell alot in terms of how rich or lean you are running, adjusting the FP without actually knowing what A/F you are at is like a trying to feel your way around in the dark if you know what I mean.

 

I don't have a cel for the maf anymore. I'm using the 97maf

 

I just fixed the exhaust leak at the y-pipe, and thought of the EGR valve. I need to block off the EGR valve to prevent it from making an exhaust leak.

I took off the intake manifold and the valve covers. It looks like the cam lobes are getting oil because they're covered in it. I think oil squirts up from on top of the valve stem to lubricate the cams.

The PCV valve is on the rear valve cover on the passenger side of the engine, right? Does that connect directly to the IM where there's a vacuum connection about 4" away?

I'm using the 6th gen fuel rail and I found that the hose connecting to the fuel rail had a kink in it. The stupid plastic core totally collapsed on itself and wouldn't unkink either. I think that the kink was bad enough to significantely reduce the fuel pressure causing extremely poor atomization. The exhaust leak at the y-pipe near the O2 sensor couldn't have helped things either.

Well, I can't do much more today since the Home Despot and autozone are closed. I'll have to wait until next week to work on it some more. Hopefully it won't snow by then.

 

I guess my opinion on this matter has no value so i'll delete my previous post.

 

Well, I don't have a timing light and I can't buy one today either. I can't go buy a new fuel hose today either.

 

When you're asking others for help it's prudent to acknowledge them when they try to. You ignored my post twice. But don't worry about it...

 

I wasn't ignoring you, but I wanted to look at some other possibilities first. I may have to take the timing chain cover off anyways since I noticed a small oil leak coming from it.

 

I replaced the fuel hose today. It's still not running right. I think the timing chain is the only thing left that could cause the problems I'm having. FAWK!! That's going to be a PITA.

 

Here are a few things that should speed up the process. I just got finished up working in that area.


1. You don't have to support the motor when you remove the x-member to take off the upper pan. The two side mounts, assuming they are in place properly, will support the weight of the motor/tranny easily. Tilley alerted me to this method, and i would do it again.

2. When you are done removing the upper oil pan, reinstall the x-member. Then remove the right side motor mount to remove the timing cover. The x-member and tranny mount will support the tranny/motor easily.

3. The most efficient way to pry the timing cover off is to pry up against the oil pump. This is by far > those two stupid notches at the top.

4. If you haven't done so already, get the RTV sealant that comes in the can. Makes applications much much much easier.


5. When you remove the oil pan, don't remove the a/c compressor bracket completely. Just remove the two lower bolts so you can remove the oil pan, but leave the two upper bolts that attach to the block on. The reason i say this is because when you are going to put the timing cover back on without disturbing the sealant, you'll need ALL the space you can get. I did this by doing these two things:

A. Remove the hose that comes from the power steering reservoir and goes to the power steering cooler. This will allow you to swing the reservoir and the big hose that's attached to it completely out of the way.

B. Put the a/c compressor back up on its bracket. The will move the a/c line out of the way to give you sufficient room.

6. Get this if you haven't already.http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh....&item_no=80646

7. I found a push pin/thumb tack to be very effective when cleaning out the grooves on the timing cover and oil pans.

8. Brake parts cleaner is your friend.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Oh yea, please use new o-rings that go in between the oil pan and oil pump and/or engine block. You don't want to leave ANY chance for oil pressure to be bled off.

P.P.S. If the main chain jumped teeth, chances are the secondaries have as well. This is what happened on my father's motor so i'd check them to make sure. The light colored links on the secondaries are supposed to line up with the marks on the secondary sprockets (i'm sure you already know this ). But in case they don't, just count the number of links from the mark on one sprocket to the other sprocket. Should be 12 links. As long as there are 12 links from one to the other don't worry about removing the sprockets and realigning the chains.

 

Thanks for the info. I ordered a new main chain and new tensioners from Dave B. Why would you need to remove the upper oil pan?

 

No problemo. You have to remove the upper pan for a few reasons:

1. There's a seal that gets squished in between the upper oil pan and timing cover. It needs to be removed for either replacement or re-RTV'ing to prevent oil leaks. And remember that you SLIDE the cover on, so that would just smear the RTV sealant that's on the underside.

2. You have to apply new sealant at the timing cover/upper pan junction on either side. If you have to apply new sealant anywhere, you need to apply it everywere since the bead needs to be continuous. If not, you're just asking for an oil leak.

3. The FSM says to. <---my favorite reason

I would seriously, seriously, seriously discourage you from going about this without removing the upper pan. Well since we got that outta the way (), i would recommend replacing the two half-moon seals that go on either end of the oil pan. They're not that expensive at all. Cheap insurance against oil leaks since i'm pretty sure you're not gonna wanna do it again.

 

It's only a few more extra bolts, and you don't want any other possible issues coming up in the long run.

 

Any updates?

 

It's been too cold here lately. I hate working on cars in the cold and don't have a garage. Maybe in about a month, it'll be warm enough to work on it.

 

I see. Keep us updated.


By the way, is this the ebay adjustable FPR you bought? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FPR-U...ayphotohosting

I'm looking into getting one myself.

 

yep, that's it. It wasn't keeping fuel pressure initially, it had a o-ring that wasn't positioned correctly.

 

F@ck! This is really pissing me off!

I put in a new timing chain, timing chain tensioner, and the 3.0 oil pan today. The old timing chain seemed to be off a tooth or two. I put everything back together and it started right up, but it still runs like crap. No different than before except that there isn't any noise coming from the timing chain case. When I put the new timing chain in, I checked it like 10 times to make sure that every thing lined up perfectly.

I did a compression test and found that the rear bank's cylinders were all at 190psi and the front bank were all at 150. Is there any good explaination for that?

I can rev it higher than 3000rpm, so the MAF is prolly good.

Next week, I'll get a timing light and verify that the cam/crank events occcur at the right time. Is there anything else I should check? The only codes it's throwing are related to IACV and EVAP.

 

The compression results are wierd..

When you say it runs like crap, what do you mean by it? Missing? Sputtering? etc..

 

It's kinda hard to describe. It doesn't rev freely at all. It sputters really bad and seems to be misfiring. All cylinders are getting gas. The fuel pressure is set at 40psi.

I would think that if the cam timing was off, that the compression would be much lower or none at all. The engine has 800 miles on it. One thing that was interesting is that all the spark plugs in the front bank were pitch black, not sooty or oily though. The spark plugs in the rear looked nearly brand new and weren't black at all.