mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Hello. This is my first post in this forum so you can call me a noobie. Before this week I never even came into this forum until I decided I was ready to swap out my engine with 170,000 miles on it for something a little fresher since I will be keeping the car for another 2 or 3 years...(trying to buy a house) So my dilemma is do I go DE-K or 3.5??? Just wanted some opinions based on whether I should just go the extra step since the DE-K is already a "sort-of" custom job? I mean I have read in this forum about everyday in every post talking about both and the only reason I am skeptical about the 3.5 is because I can't handle any long term headaches or cost associated with this motor as far as getting it to work correctly. The person I would have do the job is the same person responsible for the DE-K motor that was put in the third gen not too long ago...(see 3rd gen forum with pics for DE-K in 3rd gen) so I am confident in his level of work. Just don't want to come out with a long term dilemma like it seems Black bird was having and from reading in his post, I'm still not sure if he has it right. Please advise. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If he put a DEK in a 3rd gen, then either swap will be a walk in the park for him.

Well, what do you want? Will you mod it?

Here's a stock for stock opinion.

DEK, essentially the same as the DE, unless you like racing/revving high, do a lot of highway driving passing.

3.5 for all around torque, where revving high isn't that necassary in order to tap into the power, since the 3.5L has mucho torque on demand off idle.

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Well I would like a 3.5 but I don't want any headaches. I prefer a 3.5 but will settle for the DE-K if my life would be easier. Not in the mood for a lot of spending outside the engine and labor. I know with a DE-K they say you should do headers and probably get a stronger clutch..(I have an excedy stage 1) I have all bolt on mods except a y pipe which I would do with the swap. (Intake/Exhaust/TS ECU/UPD/Energy Suspension Bushings) Like I said I would probably add OBX headers and Y since they are affordable. Not building the engine itself if thats what you mean. More opinions welcomed.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Ohhh boy here we go.... from this paragraph, you should've spent more time in here before posting.


If you're selling in 3 years, why would you do anything than a DE swap?
Let me know when you're selling if you do the 3,5 swap, I'll take it off your hands.
Ok....

3.5L = as many headaches as a DEK...and DE for that matter, this would be during the swap, which you're not doing, so not your headaches.

Who said with a DEK you should do headers? More like in a 3.5L you should do them. ...

How in Gods name did you manage all bolt ons w/o a y-pipe? Oh wait, you DO NOT have all bolt ons.

OBX headers are stay awasy as they do not provide gains.

If you mean more opinions welcomed other than mine...

nupe500

iTrader: (13)

the real question is...why swap out a perfectly good motor if you don't have to? Your motor still runs....I say save your money and get the house.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

170k is a baby of an engine..


Logic > me.

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

Do you Have Polyurethane Motor Mounts?
Go the 3.5 Route, it takes more time, and more work, but it will be worth it in the end, besides you can also sell the max here in the Forums.
I'm sure there are plenty of people here who want to buy a swapped reliable 3.5L 4th Gen. that way they don't need to do the swap themselves, besides your car is already modded nicely..
You should definitely install Headers (all headers help, some help more than others) and Cams(on DEK), if the engine is OUT of the car.

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Well more or less I won't be selling but I guess I would be planning to get another car to put work into so I mistakingly said that. I will never sell this car.

As far as when I say headaches, what I mean is having to come out with more money to get things running correctly. From the posts I read, it takes some time or trail in error for getting thing running right if you are not Stephen Max or Tilley. (No disrepect intended to others who have done this with no problems) I don't want two months of down time to do the swap and get it 100% running. I thought the DE-K would be a much easier job then the 3.5 since it basically drops right in and the main concern is the wiring of the VI.

Based on the headers comment, I don't know any other good priced headers to use. Cattman is out of the question. Please recommend something. And also, I meant that comment of I was doing the 3.5 motor.

OK....so can anyone else co sign on whether the 3.5 swap is just as complicated as a DE-K swap?

All opinions welcomed... I'm here to get flamed..... thats when you learn the most...(LOL)

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

And the motor is not really 100%. Having fuel injection problem. Rather than fix, I would rather replace since I want to paint the car. Once I paint it, I don't want it going to a shop for a major job like this which could almost certainly mess up the paint job.

And regardless of this project, the house funds sit somewhere else..... just trying not to tap into it with a too crazy project which is the somewhat basis for this thread.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

I wouldn't say as. The DE-K should be slightly easier to swap in, but that probably doesn't mean the 3.5 wont be a walk in the park for the guy that's doing the swap.

With the addition of getting the intake cams drilled, & installing the 3.0 timing equipment, it's similar to swaping a DE-K. (You have to fab an IACV and possibly a TB plate for both engines)

But let me tell you, the extra work involved with putting in a 3.5 will pay off in the end.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

i dont know much about either, but it seems to me if you are going to do a swap, go with the 3.5L. think about how cool that is ! 4th gen maxima with a vq35de, now thats worth doing ! experience the difference

Hoooper

im just going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that since the 3.5 is better and newer technology, it will be more reliable once running. and if you dont open it up too often i would think it might get a bit better gas mileage...especially if you take that 6spd with the motor.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Don't hurt yourself now ...

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

I wouldn't call bigger displacement newer technology.....

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

if it's not broken, don't fix it!

do the rest of the bolt on's you want instead, then get the house (with garage).

Hoooper

I would, however, call the 1-6 year difference newer technology. if he gets a DE-K, its only gonna be a 2001 or older, if he gets a 3.5, it will be a 2002 or newer...thats newer technology. plus a smarter computer but we wont get into that.

BluFlame

iTrader: (2)

I dont think anybody ever swapped the 3.5L without some kind of long term idle/starting problems. You might have emissions issues.
If you are looking for zero headaches swap lo-mile engine, DE or DE-K with DE intake.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

My ECU is 11 years old, and is made for a 3.0 automatic. And it works fine...


I still don't know where you are getting newer technology from..

Variable cam timing has been around forever.

Variable intakes have been around forever.



The 1-6 year difference, is nothing more than a time period. Maybe you were referring to the idea of 3.5's being newer, thus being more reliable...

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=446529

DE-K with DE intake? ------------------------------------------^

nismology

iTrader: (8)

That's not the only improvement over the 3.0.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Better cams, heads that flow much better, slight bump in compression, closer to ideal rod/stroke ratio, 35 pounds lighter, possibility to run a ton more timing... If they had done all that to the 3.0, but kept it a 3.0, it would have been a better engine, but they did all that AND bumped the displacement to 3.5.

I say... go with the bigger pair of *****.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

There are some more subtle improvements as well, but what you said is good enough for this thread.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Such as what? I know of the revised coolant chambers in the heads, and I think the rods/pistons are lighter relative to their mass, I know the valvetrain is different (lighter?)... what else?

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

So for all those that have done the swap, where was your biggest problem area and now having got it right what do you feel you could have done differently to avoid that problem. I guess the biggest problem I am referring to is getting the car to idle/run correctly.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

The biggest problem was not listening to most people right away and attacking the swap with all the determination of a moron shoving his head into a wall, or repeatedly and violently bashing my skull into a car door for twelve hours straight.

For the idle just source the cheapest Pathfinder throttle body you can find. You also get to keep your cruise control that way.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

= .

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

As long as you have the IACV hooked up, and a PF TB with correct TPS settings, I can't see why you wouldn't have a fine idle?

Hoooper

your ecu is 11 years old because its made for a 3.o Auto, if it was for a 3.5 it wouldnt be old and crusty. The newer technology part comes from the computer being newer and therefore having better programming, more AI, better ability to fix small problems and just plain works better.

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

OK.... And as far as me already having an ECU with advanced timing... can I have it sent back to Technosquare to advance the timing further since I will using a 3.5 instead of a 3.0 or not necessary??? Not really sure what I am getting at but this was suggested by someone to me? Is there any benefit to doing this or none??? Also, I am planning on using a VAFC-II becuase I believe there is also a VI on this engine right???

Thanks for all the help in advance guys.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I would.


There should be benefit, although most are waiting for the EMU update so they can have much more control... do not ask about EMU... SEARCH


On both the DEK and 3.5L, yes.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Explain...................


Doesn't make any sense. Up until 2001 they still had 3.0 autos.....

Old and crusty?

Hoooper

11 years old is an old computer. notice that if your house computer is 2-3 years old its way slower than the new stuff. do you think a car computer is different? it thinks faster and has a larger capacity for...everything. small problems like goofed up timing, detonation...

Hoooper

what i was saying is that yours is not new, nor is it from a 2001 3.0. the computer for the 2001 3.0 is better than urs. i explained old and crusty in my last post.^

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Because it has the ability to control a VI on its own?

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Because E-gas is wayy more responsive than traditional cable driven components....

I wouldn't call messed up timing and detonation small problems.

Still lost on why you said my ECU was crusty......?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Yes the 4th generation ECU is slower than the newer ones, but the only real disadvantage is the sample rates when datalogging with an OBD-II scanner.

Hoooper

doesnt work as fast and not as smart. doesnt really matter. going back to the original question its obvious that he needs a 3.5 and i was just saying that its computer is better.

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Jclaw, seeing that your old thread was bumped back up to the top, I read all 5 pages just to see what was going on and I am glad to see you got everything going now. Things like what you went thru were making me second guess the 3.5 but I see that the way to go is the 4th gen ECU route and swap out some parts for 3.0 parts. Would the first sticky in the "All Motor" forum be good enough to give some one the whole general idea and direction to doing the swap... the one that SR-71 blackbird posted???

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Yes .

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

ALso, I just realized that I think I read somewhere in this forum that the 3.5 bolts in place with no problems. So there is no custom fabrication of motor mounts or anything? The 3.5 drops right in? Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Is this why everyone is telling me to just do the 3.5 with the necessary 3.0 parts? If it does than I think that simplifies my decision.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

For all practical purposes, the difference will be imperceptible as far as engine control is concerned. Your logic is invalid.