350z IM on fwd maxima
03-08-2006, 09:25 AM
#122
Originally Posted by vsamoylov
like i said if anybody can prove that the bends are restrictive the piping will be reworked and about the heat issue, you are forgetting about the sc guys that have the piping running in the same place. Also the piping is no longer then the stupid injen and all the other intakes that are out there for the maxima. IMO this one beats all the ones that are produced by companys and are sold for a high price amount.
hood wont be repainted cause the scoop is carbon fiber. there is one thign left and this project is done.
hood wont be repainted cause the scoop is carbon fiber. there is one thign left and this project is done.
About 100 years of modern engineering science tells me that any bend in any pipe system with a fluid flowing (air is a fluid) will introduce a loss, easily measurable in the form of a pressure drop. If the bends are smooth, large angle etc the loss is SMALL and in many cases negligible. It's just not the ideal case, that's all.
And no I didn't forget about the SC piping. The ideal case is extremely hard to achieve in the real world given space and engine layout restrictions etc. I'm not saying you can't run a setup like that with piping across the front and not see gains. In all likelyhood the manifold will give you a nicer power curve now (especially up top) than you had before.
I was only trying to help by re-iterating a few things and pointing out some general info for anyone to keep in mind when doing projects like this. Personally, I'd be trying to get as close to the ideal solution as possible. But that's just the way I am. I'd love to always do the ideal solution. But usually the "best" option is the more time consuming and/or expensive one, so many times you have to choose a less-than-ideal alternative. There are always trade offs.
I'm not knocking you for doing this swap at all. I'd love to see some dyno numbers too to go with the pics!
03-08-2006, 09:28 AM
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by DandyMax
About 100 years of modern engineering science tells me that any bend in any pipe system with a fluid flowing (air is a fluid) will introduce a loss, easily measurable in the form of a pressure drop. If the bends are smooth, large angle etc the loss is SMALL and in many cases negligible. It's just not the ideal case, that's all.
And no I didn't forget about the SC piping. The ideal case is extremely hard to achieve in the real world given space and engine layout restrictions etc. I'm not saying you can't run a setup like that with piping across the front and not see gains. In all likelyhood the manifold will give you a nicer power curve now (especially up top) than you had before.
I was only trying to help by re-iterating a few things and pointing out some general info for anyone to keep in mind when doing projects like this. Personally, I'd be trying to get as close to the ideal solution as possible. But that's just the way I am. I'd love to always do the ideal solution. But usually the "best" option is the more time consuming and/or expensive one, so many times you have to choose a less-than-ideal alternative. There are always trade offs.
I'm not knocking you for doing this swap at all. I'd love to see some dyno numbers too to go with the pics!
And no I didn't forget about the SC piping. The ideal case is extremely hard to achieve in the real world given space and engine layout restrictions etc. I'm not saying you can't run a setup like that with piping across the front and not see gains. In all likelyhood the manifold will give you a nicer power curve now (especially up top) than you had before.
I was only trying to help by re-iterating a few things and pointing out some general info for anyone to keep in mind when doing projects like this. Personally, I'd be trying to get as close to the ideal solution as possible. But that's just the way I am. I'd love to always do the ideal solution. But usually the "best" option is the more time consuming and/or expensive one, so many times you have to choose a less-than-ideal alternative. There are always trade offs.
I'm not knocking you for doing this swap at all. I'd love to see some dyno numbers too to go with the pics!
03-08-2006, 09:38 AM
#126
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Scoop looks good! Overall I like the idea and I think it is executed well. The only issue I see are the injectors, but you will figure out what works for you and that is what matters most.
Be sure and post updates when you start tuning and hit the roller!
Be sure and post updates when you start tuning and hit the roller!
03-08-2006, 09:45 AM
#128
Originally Posted by Nismo3112
Well looking at the 3rd picture, it doesn't stick out as much as I though it would. Still contemplating on what route I want to go.
03-08-2006, 09:47 AM
#129
What I find funny is everytime vsamoylov does some engine modification to his car he is always in an arguement with everyoneelse. It's quite amusing.
But good work. Hope for good dyno results. I was looking at the a 350Z forum a while ago and a guy switched from the stock 350Z manifold to the anniversary edition (or now the 2006 350Z) and he gained like 22hp or something like that. But he did lose some torque. Now I know yours isn't the AE or new manifold but you should hopefully still see gains.
But good work. Hope for good dyno results. I was looking at the a 350Z forum a while ago and a guy switched from the stock 350Z manifold to the anniversary edition (or now the 2006 350Z) and he gained like 22hp or something like that. But he did lose some torque. Now I know yours isn't the AE or new manifold but you should hopefully still see gains.
03-08-2006, 10:01 AM
#130
Originally Posted by hacim105
What I find funny is everytime vsamoylov does some engine modification to his car he is always in an arguement with everyoneelse. It's quite amusing.
But good work. Hope for good dyno results. I was looking at the a 350Z forum a while ago and a guy switched from the stock 350Z manifold to the anniversary edition (or now the 2006 350Z) and he gained like 22hp or something like that. But he did lose some torque. Now I know yours isn't the AE or new manifold but you should hopefully still see gains.
But good work. Hope for good dyno results. I was looking at the a 350Z forum a while ago and a guy switched from the stock 350Z manifold to the anniversary edition (or now the 2006 350Z) and he gained like 22hp or something like that. But he did lose some torque. Now I know yours isn't the AE or new manifold but you should hopefully still see gains.
03-08-2006, 10:20 AM
#131
Guest
Posts: n/a
actually mrev is when you put the lower part of the plenum on a rev up motor that has 300hp. the lower part of the plenum on the 300hp motor has even shorter runners which is good for top end and that is why the new 350z has a 7k rev limiter on it. so people put the lower part of the plenum from a 287hp motor on the 300hp motor and get gains udner the curve which are like 22hp i believe or something close to that. but that is only on the 300hp motors or as they call it the rev up engine. now if you take the lower part of the plenum from a rev up engine and put it on a 287hp its vise versa.
03-08-2006, 10:20 AM
#132
Vsamoylov,
I say nice job in making it work. I'm sure that others will find other ways of making this same mod work on their cars. The scoop actually looks pretty nice on the car. It does take away from the clean lines, but hey...do what you must to gain HORSES....
I say nice job in making it work. I'm sure that others will find other ways of making this same mod work on their cars. The scoop actually looks pretty nice on the car. It does take away from the clean lines, but hey...do what you must to gain HORSES....
03-08-2006, 10:58 AM
#133
looking at the pics it looks like the throttle body and where it meets the upper are the only parts sticking out of the hood. the rest of it seems like it would fit w/o having to cut a hole in the hood and just removing some of the bracing underneath.
03-08-2006, 11:05 AM
#134
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by aznsap
looking at the pics it looks like the throttle body and where it meets the upper are the only parts sticking out of the hood. the rest of it seems like it would fit w/o having to cut a hole in the hood and just removing some of the bracing underneath.
03-08-2006, 11:58 AM
#136
Originally Posted by vsamoylov
like i said if anybody can prove that the bends are restrictive the piping will be reworked and about the heat issue, you are forgetting about the sc guys that have the piping running in the same place.
03-08-2006, 12:51 PM
#138
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
That may be true, but that is still the absolute worst place to run an intake pipe. Just because Stillen did it doesn't make it a good idea. I achieved a 30 deg drop in intake temperature by rerouting my SC intake away from the engine and around the front of the car. That's good for almost a 10% increase in power by a conventional rule of thumb.
Thank you. That's what I was trying to point out earlier but I didn't have any numbers to quote.
I do give him kudos though for having the cahones to hack the hood up and do the swap. Many wouldn't.
03-08-2006, 01:44 PM
#141
Originally Posted by tavarish
ever notice how the 350z makes 287hp and the maxima makes 255 with the same engine?
also that I heard they operate at 105% volumetric efficiency, and anything over 100% is considered "forced induction"
03-08-2006, 01:51 PM
#142
that means you hit boost N/A....lol
But Vasily, did you have to use the 350z coilpacks, or did the FWD ones bolt on? Also, what dimensions are the scoop? i'm going to order one on ebay, and I wanna know how big it needs to be.
thanks alot, you've been a great help so far
But Vasily, did you have to use the 350z coilpacks, or did the FWD ones bolt on? Also, what dimensions are the scoop? i'm going to order one on ebay, and I wanna know how big it needs to be.
thanks alot, you've been a great help so far
03-08-2006, 01:59 PM
#143
Yeah odd. But the G sedans and coupes all had the same intake manifold until the 2005 6MT rev up engine was introduced (lower plenum had shorter runners). The G and Z both shared the same manifolds I believe
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
Originally Posted by tavarish
ever notice how the 350z makes 287hp and the maxima makes 255 with the same engine?
03-08-2006, 02:21 PM
#144
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Yeah odd. But the G sedans and coupes all had the same intake manifold until the 2005 6MT rev up engine was introduced (lower plenum had shorter runners). The G and Z both shared the same manifolds I believe
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
don't the 350z and g35 come w/ a more aggressive cams than the maxima? Also alot of that difference could be ECU related (more advanced timming timming) and maybe difference in exhaust form the maxima
03-08-2006, 02:24 PM
#145
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Yeah odd. But the G sedans and coupes all had the same intake manifold until the 2005 6MT rev up engine was introduced (lower plenum had shorter runners). The G and Z both shared the same manifolds I believe
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
The 03 Sedans had 260hp with this plenum style intake manifold.
So I'm not quite sure where the hp differences are. But from what I've seen for stock/modded 3.5VQ dynos, I think the maximas were under rated. I think anyway.
I dont know why the difference is, but i'm sure the G manifold makes alot more power than the stock FWD manifold
03-08-2006, 02:45 PM
#146
I always wonder what exaclty makes the differences of power between the models
comming soon to a forum near you : The nissan's 3.5 and all his secret
anyway i like the thread,, its good
the hood looks cool because of that underneat but definaly not sleeper
comming soon to a forum near you : The nissan's 3.5 and all his secret
anyway i like the thread,, its good
the hood looks cool because of that underneat but definaly not sleeper
03-08-2006, 03:54 PM
#149
The thing is all these plenums starve the front 3 cylinders (except for the Rev up engine). So in order to get the best performance, you are looking at a spacer or Crawford/Kinetix etc... But there might be one option. There's one spacer that's angled I believe. ie.. thick in front and thin at the rear. If it lifts the front, it MIGHT angle the rear of the manifold enough to make the rear clear the hood. Don't know about the tb neck. I also don't know how tapered the spacer is. It might also lift the whole plenum up some too. Just a thought
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
That is the question....
03-08-2006, 04:06 PM
#150
Ask yourself this Jeff....after reading the SAE tech doc on what Nissan engineers went through to achieve 105% VE on a NA manifold, do you think they would purposefully have done that?
IMO, it is BS. The companies that sell the spacers claim that is the reason their spacers make more whp, however maybe just adding more plenum volume is the reason, not the "equal distribution" to all 6-cylinders?
What was the reason they say Nissan did that? Strutbar clearance? The spacer still fits under the hood, so I'm guessing strutbar. I just can't imagine Nissan doing all that testing on an engine stand, publishing how awesome a job they did, and then once they went to put it in the car they scrapped it for the strutbar.
IMO, it is BS. The companies that sell the spacers claim that is the reason their spacers make more whp, however maybe just adding more plenum volume is the reason, not the "equal distribution" to all 6-cylinders?
What was the reason they say Nissan did that? Strutbar clearance? The spacer still fits under the hood, so I'm guessing strutbar. I just can't imagine Nissan doing all that testing on an engine stand, publishing how awesome a job they did, and then once they went to put it in the car they scrapped it for the strutbar.
03-08-2006, 04:12 PM
#152
Icy Wangster. Here's some dyno proof: yes this is from a maker but the tests were performed by Sports Z magazine. I picked up a CrawfordZ Plenum myself. The MREV mod for the 298hp Rev motor is pretty impressive also
http://www.motordyneengineering.com/dynos.asp
Plenum K is Kinetix
Plenum C is Crawford
http://www.motordyneengineering.com/dynos.asp
Plenum K is Kinetix
Plenum C is Crawford
!!
03-08-2006, 04:42 PM
#155
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 633
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
And where did he post dyno sheets to prove he's ahead of everyone else?
03-08-2006, 05:39 PM
#158
Guest
Posts: n/a
dyno will be very soon. i want to see myself how much it will put down and i dont have alot of mods either so it will be pretty close to stock. well the only mods are the exhaust and the apexi air filter but everything else is stock on the car. but to whoever asked about the power increase yes i can feel it. it feels like a vi when it is open. it just keeps pulling and pulling and i really dont feel a loss at the bottom like i thought i would.
coil packs were never changed out and the question of if the neck was cut off and welded differently and then if the hood would clear, that would be a no.
and yeah a spacer is going to be the next mod and maybe later down the line some headers as well.
and a thought about the hp ratings and how they are all different. who knows what is different. personally i think nissan is lying on some of these hp ratings.
coil packs were never changed out and the question of if the neck was cut off and welded differently and then if the hood would clear, that would be a no.
and yeah a spacer is going to be the next mod and maybe later down the line some headers as well.
and a thought about the hp ratings and how they are all different. who knows what is different. personally i think nissan is lying on some of these hp ratings.
