I know this might make me seem ignorant on so many levels, but I have to ask...if tilley got 226whp and 205wtq with 3.0 heads, 3.5 bottom end, jwt cams, headers, intake, udp, and whatever else, were those #'s untuned? wasn't the highest 3.0L de-k dyno 220whp recently...so 6whp extra for 0.5L more displacement, cams, and a bump in compression from 10:1 to 11.3:1...? would it be worth it to go through all the trouble on my 2K which already has the de-k? or am I missing something about tilley's situation? are the 3.0 heads limited near that level of hp to the point where he was reaching a plateau of sorts? I just have to wonder where the extra displacement and bump in compression went?

I apologize ahead of time if this comes off as negative or an attack...I don't mean it to be...I am just trying to gauge if it is worth it for me to go this route or not...

 

If your gonna do anything with a 3.5, I'd recommend drop the whole motor in, not just the block. Yes the 3.0 heads do hinder(sp*) the HP and TQ potential due to their flow characteristics being inferior to those of the 3.5 heads. Also IIRC, yes Tilley was untuned for that dyno (someone correct me if Im wrong). Also keep in mind, he used OBX headers.... which are not the best thing in the world to put it in a nice way.

Anyways remember that once he did a complete 3.5 on that car, and took off the VI mechanism to leave it essentially open all the time, he dyno'd 238WHP, this was still untuned (again, correct me if Im wrong).

Hope it helps meng

 

hmmm...still makes wonder if it's worth all the hastle and $$$$ I mean considering I can get 220whp without cams on my de-k if I tune it really well...I wonder if he had tuned that hybrid vq with the jwt cams and had an extended rev limiter...

do you have any pics of your start button 95blkmax? where did you get it? or is it actually and s2000 start button?

 

I dont have any pix yet, i can get them tho. The button I had to get from Honda. My boy works there and with his discount and tax came out to $32. Took a week for it to arrive though.

 

so did you bypass the clutch interlock switch or how did you wire it in exactly?

 

sure the 3.0L can get you to 220whp with all the mods and with extensive tuning, but the 3.5L has gobs and gobs of low and mid range torque. In addition, the 3.5L can be tuned as well. SR20DEN has 268whp IIRC, and someone else had like 262whp.

And I don't think anyone here done any tuning with the 350z IM. Someone with all the mods, tuning, and the 350z IM would prolly beat SR20DEN's figure.

 

right...I guess I was just a little disappointed to see that only a few whp can be had with .5L extra displacement and a good bump in compression...thought that alone would yield more...

 

It is a pretty good bump in power. A DE-K will get about 190-200whp without tuning. A 3.5L without tuning will get about 240whp. I'd say 40-50whp is a pretty good bump.

 

no I was referring to the 220whp de-k dyno with every bolt on vs. the 226whp dyno with tilley's hybrid vq35 short block, vq30 heads and he had all the bolt-ons if I could remember...

I thought de-k's stock put down about 185whp...don't they?

 

with the vq35 you're getting more power all the way from the low to high rpm. with the de-k you're gonna get it mostly in the highs, other then that it's gonna be like a 4th de in the 4th gen.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a DE-K with all bolt ons + tuning to an to tilly's VQ35 with restrictive heads, crappy headers, stock cams, and no tuning.

If you want to do a fair comparison, you'd have both engines with the same bolt ons, both with extensive tuning.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=465133

209whp with DE-K and tuning, 262whp with a 3.5 swap and JWT knockoff cams + some tuning.

Keep in mind that you can advance the $hit out of the 3.5's timing which 96sleeper has not done. He also has not put on the 350z IM.

 

no he had jwt s1 vq30 cams when he did that dyno for the hybrid IIRC...also obviously the de-k is running the "crappy heads" so it seems that they didn't make much of a difference or couldn't make proper use of the .5L more and higher compression...so the heads pleatuea'd I guess...

and it was a 220whp dyno for the de-k with full bolt-ons and tune...some other guy got way higher, but it was discredited since they were rediculous #'s...

 

You have to keep in mind that that DE-K that did the 220WHP, granted its an awesome achievement and a landmark HP-level for a 3.0 NA. However, that motor is pretty maxed out. Tylley's hybrid motor, like SR71 Blackbird said, had those blasted OBX headers, and no tune (I wont mention runing the more restrictive 3.0 heads since that's a constant bet'n what you have now and what you are asking about). Mostly because there was no tune, the power was very low.

As to the button, lol, I didnt wire it up since I hate electrical stuff. s0ber and streetzlegendz wired it up for me. They basically did it so that the key has to be in the ignition, and the clutch still has to be depressed for the motor to start. I guess it was just wired as "an additional" switch, as the key unexpectedly still functions when you turn it to turn on the car. So I guess if one ever breaks, I could use the other method, lol.

 

FWIW, the bump in compression with the 2nd and 3rd generation 3.5's was NOT done for power at all. It was to improve combustion speed and avoid inefficient combustion due to the high port angle and 9.3mm valve lift which causes low "tumble flow", aka swirl.

 

I beg to differ... It still has no cams or flywheel, and even without those I think there's still room for improvement. It was not fully tuned before either, only for fuel.

However a modded and well tuned 3.5 is much better.

 

I stand corrected, I was focusing on "the common bolt-ons" and forgot of "the other goodies"

 

I think it depends on your driving style and car usage. IMO a high-revving vq30 is much more suited towards a hi-speed road course environment. Whereas your auto crossing application might benefit from the torquey vq35 (plus its lighter too). The area under the curve is quite apparent between the two engines, as i'm sure you know already.

As for a 3.0 liter being at its limit at 220whp, thats less than 270hp at the crank (given a 15% drivetrain loss). That number is more a limitation of the intake manifold and camshafts.

 

I would think the peak power of the vq30de-k wouldn't be much higher with cams unless you were to get an extended rev limiter...

 

I'm working with Cheston and Tadashi on that for you. I have to schedule a date to bring in the car

 

Higher as in hp or higher as in rpm?

I have extended rev limit but no cams.