Just got my new wideband, innovate lc1. Everythign is hooked up and connected right. When i hook it up to a laptop, the a/f readings jump all across the board, i don't mean 10-13, i mean 7-22. What's the issue here? i'm pretty sure i calibrated it correctly following the manual. Can owners let me know how to calibrate it and how to fix my issue? I'm going to go mess with it some more now, but i don't know what else to try.

 

Is the car doing anything weird (I'm assuming you're at idle) when the AFRs are shooting all over the place?

 

Nah the car is perfectly fine when at idle and driving.

 

Did you calibrate in free air your first calibration? If not, it's very important that you do. Do you have the ground hooked up to the button and the red light? In order to reset the LC-1 properly, you need to ground that black wire, then release. Sometimes the software reset doesn't work properly.

 

You got it. Calibration was off. Its fine now. Now i need to figure out how the hell to hook up the vafc to the VI.

edit: got it hooked up, all working fine, had grounds mixed up...seems like i'm messing up every step of the way, but o well, i'm learning, won't make the same mistakes again.



My air/fuel ratios are weird though....My idle isn't stable, goes up/down 30-80rpm usually, but the ratio is around 14.2 and 15.3 throughout that, which leads me to belive everything is calibrated correctly, since its supposed to be around 14.7

This is where it gets weird in my uneducated opinion. At WOT at 1.5-2.5krpm, the ratio's start at around 10.5 or 11, and gradually drop down to 8, then sometimes 7.9ish. I really can't belive that i'm running THAT rich....but my idle a/f ratio is fine so can i really be that freakin rich?? maybe i'm just exagerating the richness because of lack of experience....gonna go research some but it would be nice to get some help from people who have gone through this with a similar setup as me.


I have 00vi with larger de-k injectors/rail, pop intake, y pipe, muffler as my only air/fuel affecting mods that i can think of. Power valve in 00vi is still in place.

 

bump.............

 

Welcome to my world.

When I datalogged the a/f after installing the same size injectors (on the 3.5) that you have, this problem happend to me as well. You can tune it open loop, but in closed loop, I still run a/f ratios around 10-11's, it slowly compensates, but it is a problem that I am looking into as soon as I get the EU back on the car. I have narrowed it down to a few factors: Larger injector size, mixed with bad front and rear bank o2 sensors, and slightly out of spec TPS. I have been having a problem with gas mileage for quite a while, so I am assuming that it is the o2 sensors. Knock sensor is fine. The car runs EXTREMELY rich when driving anywhere over 10-50% throttle.

And as far as your wb going from 14.6-15.3ish, that is completely normal. The LC-1 logs in real time. You are seeing accurate numbers.

 

Thanks for the response. I guess i'll lean the crap out of my open loop(WOT). Do you know how to match RPM to the LC1 A/F map? My LC1 doesn't show the RPM.

 

You cant, it's impossible without another piggyback in chain with the LC-1. I'm hoping that down the road I can crack the EU and figure out how to throw the signals gathered from the unit into a program that will display gauges on the laptop of all the EU readouts...That is assuming you have an EU.

The beautiful thing about the EU is that you can log a/f relative to RPM, TP, or a/f hotwire voltage. This makes tuning a/f so easy it's rediculous. Go buy an EU!

 

I have vafc2. So what you're saying is i have to guess the RPM, and hope i get it right?

 

There is a software upgrade that will read RPM.

 

With time, ur going to know exacly what the points on the a/f graph are. i have ur same lc1, and same vafc2, and u NEED two poeple, one to drive and not get killed while trying to tune, and another one with the laptop recording. u hold it in certain gear, take it to w/e RPM, above 3k if ur auto, then floor it, and let off at certain RPM, then more or less guesstimate where the a/f curve is at. hopefully u wont have alot of spikes n stuff, so u can just add corrections to all the points.

Are you sure? because with the lc1 there is no wire or anything that you can connect to the tach to detect rpm, i dont see how with a software upgrade one can see rpms?

 

After checking the site, it seems as if there is an 'rpm converter' type of thing.

 

yea there is. but that adds $200+ to the investment lol. lc1 alone is 175, u get wat u pay for, so i dont mind tuning with seconds instead of rpm, just gotta get used to it and learn the curve.

 

Ok just got back from tuning. I know 2nd gear is too short, but i used it just for now, to get a rough tune. Basically, my curve ranges from 12.5-13.8 with a millisecond spike to 15.6 in the middle(wtf)....

Tomorrow i'll tune with 2 people using 3rd gear, with better results hopefully, but i don't see how its going to get any better, i was messing with the thing for 2 hours at least today. Anybody have pointers?

 

in 3rd, roll from w/e rpm u wanna start, as soon as u go WOT, tell your buddy to hit the record button, then tell him to get ready to prepare for to press Stop, look at the RPM u let off and tell him to stop. you will at least know where u start and stop, the inbetween u can caluclate it more or less. like find the middle of the curve in seconds. then find the middle rpm between when u started and stopped. and now u got the stop and ending, and more or less the middle. so now u kinda kno where the curve is in relation to rpm. Sometimes I would pick a random point on the vafc2, and rich it out alot, and look on the curve to see where on the curve it got richer, this will tell you exacly what rpm is it is on the curve. The spike might be your VIAS switchin over.

 

ok thanks, i'll do that tomorrow and see how it works out.

 

This is good info seeing as I was going to install my LC-1 tomorrow. I'm going to make this interesting because I will be doing everything myself. I think I am going to start by doing a base run followed by splitting up the rpm range by setting 3 points richer then adjust accordingly.

 

You need the SSI-4 (has RPM converter capabilities as well as other nice features) so you can datalog RPM, not the "RPM converter" (for the LM-1 only)
MSRP is $129. Back when I did my shopping, I think I remember seeing them for $79 shipped on ebay. I don't know how much mine was, as I got a package deal of the XD-16, LC-1 and SSI-4 together from an Authorized Dealer.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...s/MTS_grid.php


On a side note, make sure you got your grounds correctly. Read the instructions again and again and again.

Read this too. This is a thread I posted at Innovate a few weeks back. Although I did my grounds correctly, I never knew just how important they are.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=5507

 

Eh i'd rather not spend another hundred bucks on this, i'll just make a few spikes and go from there, shouldn't take too long to get everythign right...on another note, im considering switching to EU....

 

Good post you made on innovative. I have my lc1 getting power from the heated seats 12v, so its actually robbing power from the starter (maybe why my starter dosnt engage sometimes? hmmm), also, with that SSI-4, you can just have the LC1 and ssi-4 wtihout the need of anything else? At this point i have become pretty good at tuning without having to know the RPM. but just wanna get informed on this SSi-4 device.

 

Actually, your heated seats do not operate during cranking (starting) of the car, so no worries of it robbing power from the starter. Now, if you added aftermarket heated seats, or OEM heated seats, and tapped a power source that has power during cranking, then that's a different story.

Yes, with a LC-1 and SSI-4, you don't need anything else. The XD-16 gauge is optional. One of the many benefits of the XD-16 gauge is it's ability to peform the free air calibration, no need for the led and pushbutton switch.

At this point, I would suggest you download the complete instruction manual on the SSI-4 from Innovate's website and read all about it. Then determine if it's right for you. It's quit capable of doing many different things, besides RPM conversion.

 

I highly reccomend you switch. Check your PM's.

 

Thanx alot. With all this lc1 walk, its ironic how my damn laptop is not picking up on my wideband today. I been using it for about 4 months or more with no problems, and the minute i post about it. bam. now it dosnt pick up any port. sigh, now i gotta troubleshoot the POS

 

I have that problem sometimes. Try unplugging everythign and plugging it in again HARD...this fixed my problem.

goaliekeg-pm replied

 

Well i tried tuning today with a friend, and i did, but i really don't like tuning with this thing. I knew it would be a rough tune, but i was expecting more. It's a good little toy, but i wouldn't call it 'real' tuning hardware. This would probably be ok for most people looking for a rough tune, but i want to tune everything optimally. Gonna mess with it for a few more days and see what my options are. I do like this thing, just not really the percision.

My vias cup is freakin broken again as well....ahhhhhh!!!!

 

Why wouldnt it be a good tuning device? I tune mine perfectly. I street tune with a friend pressing record and stop, and a few highway runs. For example when I was all motor, I tuned for 13.5 a/f and had a very nice flat curve. When i took the car to a Dynojet, i had the same PERFECT flat curve on the dyno, which means the lc1 works perfect. you just have to get used to it.

 

Maybe i'm just not used to it yet, but i dont know how i'd get a flat curve with these adjustments. Can you tell me how yours is set up in detail please?

Also just for reference, are you removing a LOT of fuel of just a little? I'm removing 7-11 points across the board right now, seems like quite a bit.

 

Well I have a walbro 255 along with 370cc injectors, i think the most correction i have is -13, i have -13 from about 3800 to 5100 RPM, then after the 00vi switches, on the Hi map, i think i have -12 from 5200 to 6000, then I made it a little richer towards the end of my gears at 6200ish(im auto) at about -11. I have to go look at it but thats an idea of how mine is. ill post my corrections when i go to the car.

I am tuned for about high 11's a/f to 12.0. But since you are n/a, you wanna tune to about 13-13.5, so you having -11 correction shouldnt be too bad. ofcourse your advancing timing slightly but nothing significant with the dek injectors.

 

Wait so your "lo" map starts at 3800 and "hi" at 5200? Maybe thats why i can't get any exact adjustments, mine is set at 1200 to 6400 by 200rpm adjustment points....tomorrow i'll set it up by 100rpm points, taht shoudl help.

 

My lo map, goes from 3000 to 5100, and hi map goes from 5200 to 6500.

Because the lo>hi switch is at 5100. which is where the 00vi switches.