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Timing Advance - Definitive Proof

Old 07-07-2007, 01:05 PM
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Timing Advance - Definitive Proof

It is something I have always wanted to see but to this day I do not think it existed. I wanted to see dyno proof of any increase the 2 degree timing advance would show.

Last week when I dynoed, I recorded just this data.

Let the commenting begin.....

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Old 07-07-2007, 01:08 PM
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As you can see, it was about 3 hp and 2.5 tq.

The dynos were done back to back. I did two at 15 degrees and two at 17 degrees (back to back).

The other mods that were involved:

K&N Filter
Place Racing CAI
Big Bore MAF Housing (76.2mm ~ 3") with 2k1 MAF Sensor with IAT Swap
Polished TB
Polished Elbow
Ported & Polished Non-VI Upper Plenum
Ported & Polished Lower Plenum
Z33 Injectors
2 Degree Base Timing Advance
Cattman Gen II Headers
Rear O2 Sensors Simulated
LSA Test Pipe (No Cats)
Stock B-Pipe and Muffler
15.9 Lb Konig Traffik Wheels with BF Goodrich Drag Radials
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:32 PM
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For those of you who would like to see the runfiles, they can be found at the link below:

http://hsvracing.com/upload/6spd_Hay...Dyno/Runfiles/

For those who know Excel, all data, charts, and analysis can be found at the link below:

http://hsvracing.com/upload/6spd_Hay...-26%20Dyno.xls
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:02 AM
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Interesting, this makes no sense

I always was under the impression base timing /= open loop timing
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:57 AM
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I always thought when the base timing is bumped 2 degrees, it bumps the whole curve 2 degrees, even at WOT. This confirms it.

Elon, you need to add some more timing at WOT though, there is more power left in that thing.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:09 AM
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SWEET I hope this holds true for all the Nissan's/Infiniti's since I just had this done to My 06 G.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:29 AM
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Awesome data. Threads that prove/ disprove notions are great
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:56 AM
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Even though it seems to go against what we used to believe, I must say I totally believe this. With my Auto Enginuity I can advance the timing upto 17 degrees and I can retard it all the way down to zero or less. When I do this, the car feels like total garbage and it isn't just at the low end. The entire band feels weak.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Even though it seems to go against what we used to believe, I must say I totally believe this. With my Auto Enginuity I can advance the timing upto 17 degrees and I can retard it all the way down to zero or less. When I do this, the car feels like total garbage and it isn't just at the low end. The entire band feels weak.

I guess I should go edit all my old posts
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:43 PM
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Also we should remind everyone that he only did a 2 timing bump. The 2k3, 2k3 cars are supposed to be at 15 from the factory but none of them are. They are all at 14 stock. So it would really be a 3 bump.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Also we should remind everyone that he only did a 2 timing bump. The 2k3, 2k3 cars are supposed to be at 15 from the factory but none of them are. They are all at 14 stock. So it would really be a 3 bump.
Whether the starting point is 15 or 14 the consult II/Cipher can only do +/- 2, correct?
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nismology
Whether the starting point is 15 or 14 the consult II/Cipher can only do +/- 2, correct?
That listed +/- is only over or under the base timing, which is 15. So just as I stated, if the car is at 14 you can add 3 to go to 17.

My Auto Enginutity can take the timing down to 0, so long as it is connected. The ECU holds anything from 13 to 17.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nismology
Whether the starting point is 15 or 14 the consult II/Cipher can only do +/- 2, correct?
That is correct. My Nissan tech did the same thing on my car, advanced 2 degrees. YAY, 2-3 whp for $0
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:22 AM
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sorry for the question...but i alwys wondered about timing adv....so do u guys recommend doing timing advanced? oo yea will doing a timing advance decrease lifespan of the car?
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:35 PM
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Is this something that the dealer is "willing" to do or do you have to go somewhere else??

How much does is cost on average?
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:57 PM
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Usually if you go in for servicing and have something to pay for, just ask and theyll do it...thats how i did mine...i have to go again tho since i had a new ecu installed and forgot last time.
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:23 AM
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I went in today for oil change and som other things. They want to charge me $40 ,said it took 1/2 hour to do. Im going back before they do anything and see whats up.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:01 AM
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It takes <5 minutes to do. They just want to charge to make it worth their while.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:19 AM
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Well I paid like a fool and he left a log file that I posted in another thread. Can someone decipher it for me and kinda explain it a little?
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by redls1
Well I paid like a fool and he left a log file that I posted in another thread. Can someone decipher it for me and kinda explain it a little?
$40 isn't bad, and the techs don't work for free. Many stealerships charge $70+ and many others refuse to do it at all.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:17 PM
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explain how this can be done on a 6th gen since there is no distributor *spelling?*

my friend who owns a shop said he did it for me a few weeks ago when i was gettting some stuff done on the car... but when i went to another mecahnic today that i am close with, he said he had no idea how ppl were doing it if there is no distributor...

can someone explain how to do it on a 6th gen so i can explain to him..
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Old 09-26-2007, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastmax05 View Post
explain how this can be done on a 6th gen since there is no distributor *spelling?*



my friend who owns a shop said he did it for me a few weeks ago when i was gettting some stuff done on the car... but when i went to another mecahnic today that i am close with, he said he had no idea how ppl were doing it if there is no distributor...

can someone explain how to do it on a 6th gen so i can explain to him..
We also don't have a distributor, haven't since 1995 . Find a new mechanic that is more familiar w/ Nissan ECU's.


It can be done the same way it is done on years 00+.

Ask !Prjmax!, he has it, as well as a slew of others. Take it to the dealer, or use OBDII capable software (i.e. AE, Cipher etc)

Last edited by NmexMAX; 09-26-2007 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:30 AM
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its being done by either convincing a nissan service tech to do it with the CONSULT II (it supposedly only takes them a few mins), or it can also be done with certain OBD II devices such as the cipher
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:39 AM
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my dealer did it for free for me, took him about 3 minutes to hook it up and change it.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:16 PM
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Glude: You just go in and say "can you advance my timing "
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Old 09-26-2007, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastmax05 View Post
Glude: You just go in and say "can you advance my timing "
Nah, I got this done like 2-3 years ago. I knew a guy who worked for the local dealership and he called a mechanic to tell him what was going on. The mech was cool with it and did it quick, I offered a 20 and he said no thanks. They arent really doing much, just hooking up their scan tool for about 3 minutes.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:00 PM
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yeah hook up the scan tool, press the screen 3 or 4 times cant remember and then its done lol..still nice to leave tip if they are doing it for free. the tech could potentially get in **** if they are caught working for free lol..
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:05 PM
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hmmm sounds like a need an in... i will keep my eyes and ears open
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastmax05 View Post
hmmm sounds like a need an in... i will keep my eyes and ears open
Or find a local member with AE or Cipher software.
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:49 AM
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can u advance timming on a 99?
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by icedout View Post
can u advance timming on a 99?
No. Not via the stock ECU.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:50 PM
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so me with the stock ECU on my 02 I drive up to a buddy at a dealer and ask him to do a "2 degree timing advance please" and he will say ok and be back in 10min with my car? no tuning or nothing?

jake
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hot_wax_tree View Post
so me with the stock ECU on my 02 I drive up to a buddy at a dealer and ask him to do a "2 degree timing advance please" and he will say ok and be back in 10min with my car? no tuning or nothing?

jake
not many people will do it for you, but many have had liuck pulling up to the service area and talking to a tech directly, make an offer to them $20 maybe $30 and if the tech is cool they will do it. Wont take them long to hook up the consult and get it done.

I wouldnt recommend going up to the service desk and asking one of them...
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:59 PM
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is there any drivabilety changes in the car after the advance? any thing that is noticed different idle? run ruff? ect.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:59 PM
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Hmm... so the 5hp per degree theory isn't true.
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by a33i30 View Post
Hmm... so the 5hp per degree theory isn't true.
Who in the world ever proposed that?
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:07 PM
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I read it on some other thread about timing, must of been wrong I guess lolll.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SR20DEN View Post
That listed +/- is only over or under the base timing, which is 15. So just as I stated, if the car is at 14 you can add 3 to go to 17.

My Auto Enginutity can take the timing down to 0, so long as it is connected. The ECU holds anything from 13 to 17.
I can confirm this in Cipher as well. I had a buddy hook it up and it showed -1*. He was able to set it to +2 which is a total of 3* advance. Too bad I've since changed my battery so I need to flash it again. I'm willing to bet the gains are about 5 whp for the full 3*.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:41 PM
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FlawleZ> I think the ECU saves the timing advance even if you disconnect your battery (someone correct me if i'm wrong). The timing would only go back to 15 if you get a new ECU.

I went to Nissan this morning to flush and refill my transmission. (I tried to do it myself but the drain plug was so tight I almost rounded it. I don't know what Nissan engineers were thinking using those allen bolts for the plug, they are notorious for rounding up).

I paid the tech guy $40 to advance the base timing to 17, and in return, he charged me only half an hour for the gear oil change instead of an hour. I ended up paying $45 for the gear oil change + $40 cash for the tech, where a full hour of labor would have been around $100.

In the end, I gained 3hp and saved $15
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizm0 View Post
FlawleZ> I think the ECU saves the timing advance even if you disconnect your battery (someone correct me if i'm wrong).
You're right.

My idle changes when I change my timing.
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