Finding your engine's efficiency (VE) AND THEN seeing what filter would best suit you/your engine would be a better approach, IMO of course.



Ok, where did anyone say it was bigger?
Not saying it's the mother of all intake designs, but I am saying it's better than a stock A32 unit. But, at this point, you don't care so I'll stop that point.


I cannot find where he mentioned actual IAT data via OBDII/TC?

 

oooh youre right, thought i read that the -10 was via IAT. it would be better for the IAT to be at -10 though. that whole -10 in the IM, bad for the engine. maybe not though.

 

UNORTUNATELY no, just buttdynos

I didn't went to the dragway with it, to see how much it made my car faster, by itself. One month after, I swapped the VQ35DE.

 

I dont think it was bad for the engine. Even when the O2 code "cel 0303" went on, the trothle responce was amasing.

 

your idea ought to make good power all around. since we all know that the short ram intake is good for power, just unfortunately takes in hot air. but with your intake you get cooler air into a short ram which conceptually seems good. although i still dont like he sound of -10 degree intake

 

meant more long term.

 

Well it was that cold outside too... winter is my country!
I live in Quebec and I speak french. Bonjour! (Hello!)
It cant be as bad as a cold start by -25....

 

but even after a -25 start, the coolant running through the tb and the warm engine and air warm it up quite fast. at -10 its like a cold start, constantly.

 

Hardly...you're unclear about what Im saying. From the begining, NmexMAX said it sounded like an A33 filter...but my point is, Bigger is not always better. If the smaller filter handles the air just as efficiently as yout A33(hypothetically assuming we retroed an A33 into the A32), then size dont mean sh*t...If the size of the filter is proves to hold nothing back, what's wrong with the system?

NmexMAX, sure, much testing would need to be done to see if this is adequate. Efficiency on all parts no just the engine and intake...about the repost. I understand and understood your point, this is like the A33 in the concept, but different in design. This doesnt have an airbox...not to mention this could be moved anywhere up and down the intake, TB to end, doesnt matter.

One good thins about -10 air...dense as can be! Heh...

 

What are you referring too, re: bigger?

If it's filter size:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...7&postcount=12
Cliff from post:
A32 and A33's both use the same air filter, i.e same size/same surface area.

 

Actually it's the oposite when all the intake is at -10... the coolant get cooled when it pass in the tb... cause the tb was also at -10.
The coolant return line was colder...
Now with the VQ35 and pathy tb, I've bypassed the coolant.

 

i just dont understand why you want to reinvent this intake when there are two other intake designs out there that are equal or likely better than what you propose. not to mention easier to put together. just do what roadrunner has done and forget about the inline BS

 

heat transfer man, either your TB warms up or your engine is at -10...you cant have coolant going in at 180 and leaving cooler without the TB warming up. just doesnt work that way

 

In comparing the size of a 4" round filter vs a stock A32/33 filter. Not talkin about A32 v A33.


Das Years...that is EXACTLY my point...who's to say theyre better? Why? Because the filter is bigger? Give me numbers(also known as proof) that mean something before you make a statement. Just because its bigger, doesnt mean its better... again trying to tell you that.

 

How can I say it.... Imagine -10 air that is forced into this scoop at 120mph! I mean, the whole engine bay will be dramatically cooled from the air flow that manage to get out of the airbox. So no hot air is present in the engine bay.


The tb just dosn't get hot at all. Since the cold air is blown directly on the filter.


lol thanks!

 

Probably retofiting a A33 inline airbox ,with a K&N drop in, to a setup like mine could yell good results...

 

1.) Get your current VE.
2.) See how much MFA (minimal filter area) is required for said amount of VE.
3.) Profit?

 

just do this:
1: search "intake"
2: read the 47000 threads on the .org about intakes
3: devise the best possible intake that you can and report back

 

If there was something to be gained from your setup, it would be because the filter has access to the cooler air, not because of the velocity. The ram air effect that actually makes some power doesn't come into play until VERY high speeds. Speeds that n/a maximas CANNOT reach. The engine swallows what it can based on the cylinder heads, cams, and IM. Besides, like someone else mentioned earlier, any sort off positive pressure that exists in your tube (.5 PSI if you're lucky BTW) will dissapate as soon as soon as it exits the tube.

Simply false. Hot air will ALWAYS be present in the engine bay. Radiator anyone?

Heat tranfers from the heads, up to the intake manifolds and subsequently to the TB. A little bit of extra air won't change that.

 

exactly, since the tube is open to the engine bay, the dreampt up positive pressure will immediately be relieved as soon as it reaches the end of your tubing. however, it will still certainly supply some cold air. especially if it is -10 out.

yeah like i said. if the manifold isnt warming up then the engine is staying really cold (not what is gonna happen, but thats what would have to happen for the entire IM to be at -10)

 

He didn't say the IM was at -10. He said the TB was not hot.

 

...

 

Or you can:
1. stop arguing
2. find proof
3. present your case

Until then, stay out of this and leave it for discussing with evidence...

NmexMax, I assume by VE, you mean velocity? Any ideas on measuring said speed? In theory...retrofitting something would be needed to test it. What about the powerband? Would I have to get max velocity after the rev limiter? It would seem to me the graphical representation of VE in the powerband would be somewhat of an S curve, agree? With somewhere around 6500-7000 being the upper quartile(correct name) where the curve begins to flatten. Thus, no significant changes in velocity would occur past that, unlike 4000-4500 etc...

 

VE = Volumetric Efficiency. Toss a on it.

 

Alrighty thanks man. Doin my research.

 

You know what that is? That's me not reading teh thread. :

I stand corrected. Carry on...

 

i dunno...Im thinkig the idea behind roadrunners setup sounds goo but I cant see it being "ram air". Even with the stock top back on it still will be released into the box as a whole...if at some point the box were to meet a maximized pressure,which I would imagine would take a fairly high amount of speed and better sealing than just clipping the box together...like I said,I dunno. But I certainly do like the idea of "breathing" the cooler air on the short ram style intake. Im gonna give this a try before I go back to the track thursday and just see what happens. I know a dozen variables will come into play but just to see. Heres a question for ya then roadrunner....currently I have the exact same intake setup as you sans the "breather box"....I have my IAT simply ziptied to the drop resistor...no ood? Should i try to get it in the flow of air somewhere? Or if I go your route and try that setup should I just insert it somewhere in the piping?

 

Well, the DR get hot after a while, so my guess would be to stick your IAT inside the tube or as close as you can to the air filter.

 

10 caraters

 

cool gonna relocate the IAT tomorrow. Also yea bro Im with ya on what ya said about the ram air heres my question then...even with the lid on the airbox can a box of any srt facilitate a ram air...would it not have deliver the source of the air directly to the TB,even via the MAF and the filter without any chamber? Either way I still like that setup you running now and gonna try it in the afternoon tomorrow and see...i figure why not.

 

it seems the OP has lost track of what the OP wants



in another note: youve been told what you oughta do, so go do it.

 

no it cant. why? cause you arent going fast enough for the true ram air effect to show. the ram air discussion is null and should take NO part in a decision to do a modification

 

 

Of course, closed box or a box less design (sliding the filter in the dryer vent) would be more efficent. But it would create a vacuum in the dryer vent and your engine could breath some rain drops.... I didn't take that risk. But, you could leave it closed and open it back if you need to.

 

I wanted discussiong and opinions, backed by support. Something you have failed to give me from the beginning...I guess Ill edit my first post for those who dont understand that you cant disqualify and idea with out evidence.

97Road_Runner

With a colsed box, you're similar to the stock, except your inlet is out on the ground, instead of under the hood, so yes, you would be exposing it to said rain drops, but doesnt it take more than drops to do damage?

About the ram effect...it would make the system more efficient. When you suck through a straw, you have a certain ammount of resistance, but with something blowing in the other end, the ammount of force required to suck the equal ammount of air would decrease. Whether or not its acutally noticable or not is speculative.

 

wikipedia seems to think anything under the speed of sound doesnt benefit from ram air...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

so at sea level, 293K (68 F), and a speed of 45 m/s (a little over 100mph), this is what we get.
dp/P = (45^2)/ (2 X 8.314 472 m3·Pa·K−1·mol−1 X 293)= .45156Pa change, at an atmospheric pressure of 101.325 KPa, so at about 100MPH, the pressure inside the tube increased .4156Pa, or an increase of .0004102%...nice

and dont even give the straw example, cause the 101.325KPa is what you get "sucking through a straw" aka sea level pressure

 

We all understand the ram effect and know that it's only providing more pressure in the intake at speeds we cant reach... But before saying it's no good at all... does anyone here, ever tried it?

....?

I've tried it. It does make a difference.
I might have gained more than you guys might do, beacause I live in sub-artic condition 6 month a year.
Does much of you guys ever driven a car by -25F BTW? Not so sure about that. It's night and day. I would sell my soul if I could hit a dragway at this temperature.

Instead of debating about what it does not do, lets talk about what it could achieve and the gains from it.
As I said, call it gettho or cheesy, but it work. The best from it... it cost 1/10 of a Injen RD1940 CAI!

 

404, read above physics before posting. what you have is not ram air, nor can ram air be blamed for the difference in power from -25 to 60 degrees

 

many estimate a 1% power gain for every 10 degrees dropped, so you have an extra 6-10% in the winter, depending on what temp you compare to. thats a HUGE difference. i can feel the difference between 55 in the morning and 85 during the day. i cant imagine an 80 degree difference.

your setup isnt really being questioned, its not ram air. i believe in your setup

 

Ok, well I guess it wouldnt be classified as the ram effect, but one thing, the straw theory applies. Get a coffee straw, suck as hard as you can until your lungs are full. Time it. Then, do it while sticking your head out of a car window with a small funnel on the end of it. Air WILL travel faster through it when its beind pushed into it from your movement. Especially with a funnel on the end. Air takes the path of least resistance, and unless inhibited, will take a smooth path. Thus, the funnel will do just that, guide the air into the straw(or for the intake, the tube). Also, if the presure applied to the air going into the funnel is greater than normal air pressure, then the pressure in the intake would be higher than normal. Like putting pressure on meat through a grinder. It will go faster if force is applied from the outside, and the speed doesnt soleley rely on the pulling power of the grinder.