benefits of 3.5 cams in a 3.0
03-07-2008, 09:25 AM
#1
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benefits of 3.5 cams in a 3.0
Ok guys Im running behind on my 3.5 build and havent fully decided if im going to sleve it yet or not. So in the mean time I have a 3.0 laying around the shop I may put back in the car for the couple of weeks. I also Have some stock 3.5 cams laying around Ithough about tossing in too. But is it worth it to put in the 3.5 cams in a 3.0 This is a boosted motor too. So would it help or not im wondering.
03-21-2008, 08:36 PM
#4
Are they fitting with the original cam sprockets or they need any adapters to get them at the good timing?? I have them at my disposition and my engine is awaiting to be put back in my car. If someone could explain me how to get them working would be super appreciated.
03-26-2008, 04:05 PM
#6
So, they bolt right up, you're telling me. Only need to swap the whole timing assembly with the 3.5 cam sprockets with the same position at tdc with their dowel pins...
I doubt.
If someone could give me a walkthrough of the WHOLE install. Or the main line of assembling, it would be cool! thanks.
I doubt.
If someone could give me a walkthrough of the WHOLE install. Or the main line of assembling, it would be cool! thanks.
03-26-2008, 04:26 PM
#7
So, they bolt right up, you're telling me. Only need to swap the whole timing assembly with the 3.5 cam sprockets with the same position at tdc with their dowel pins...
I doubt.
If someone could give me a walkthrough of the WHOLE install. Or the main line of assembling, it would be cool! thanks.
I doubt.
If someone could give me a walkthrough of the WHOLE install. Or the main line of assembling, it would be cool! thanks.
03-26-2008, 08:30 PM
#9
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Bwahahaha, good luck with that. But I feel the need to stress one important thing that you dson't want to skimp on......
Step 1: BUY A NEW TENSIONER!!!
Step 2: Fill a tupperware with oil, submerge the new tensioner, and with the plunger down push it in and out several times, than push it in and put that new thumbtack back in.
step 3: Avoid pushing it out and than back in, once it's bolted in place get the chain slack on that side, remove the pin, and don't touch anything.
OR, supplement step 2 & 3 by having everything ready, but on the last submerged pump don't push the tensioner all the way back in, but instead just enough to install it. These things suck monkey ***** at jumping timing upon initial crank, the less you have it push outwards while not submerged, the more oil will be in it. I wish there was a way to use the 3.5 tensioner, nissan got smart and put a locktab on it.
Step 1: BUY A NEW TENSIONER!!!
Step 2: Fill a tupperware with oil, submerge the new tensioner, and with the plunger down push it in and out several times, than push it in and put that new thumbtack back in.
step 3: Avoid pushing it out and than back in, once it's bolted in place get the chain slack on that side, remove the pin, and don't touch anything.
OR, supplement step 2 & 3 by having everything ready, but on the last submerged pump don't push the tensioner all the way back in, but instead just enough to install it. These things suck monkey ***** at jumping timing upon initial crank, the less you have it push outwards while not submerged, the more oil will be in it. I wish there was a way to use the 3.5 tensioner, nissan got smart and put a locktab on it.
Last edited by KRRZ350; 03-26-2008 at 08:35 PM.
04-01-2008, 05:38 PM
#10
I never said they bolt right up. I said it's the same as installing them in a 3.5 swap with 3.0 ECU (I mention that only because it's been discussed in numerous 3.5 swap threads). Meaning you need adapter and/or spacers. That's the only difference. For the whole walkthrough, Haynes or Factory Service Manual. Preferably the latter.
04-10-2008, 09:36 PM
#11
I have a NA motor and Im looking for Cams for a 3.0dek as well. Id rather not go with the JWT cams since id have to swap out my valve springs. What cam can i put in that will just go in without having to remove my valve springs?3.5 max? 3.5 path?
04-11-2008, 10:50 AM
#12
Also, IMO, they are or should be necessary when revving to 7k+, correct / partially nismology?
04-11-2008, 12:04 PM
#13
Correct. The stock valve springs are fine @ OEM rev-limit. When you rev past it is when you want to start looking at aftermarket springs. And for the money, OEM VQ35HR valve springs are the best bet.
04-11-2008, 01:14 PM
#14
04-11-2008, 09:15 PM
#16
Im pretty sure i have a P.m from dandy sayin i can raise my redline to 7200rpm with stock internals without a problem. But he didnt recommend me going past that very often for my oil pump may explode.
I am installing my emu this week and was going to raise it to 7200rpm like dandy suggested. Or should i just play it safe and raise the redline to 7k even? or perhaps 7100? your thoughts guys.
I am installing my emu this week and was going to raise it to 7200rpm like dandy suggested. Or should i just play it safe and raise the redline to 7k even? or perhaps 7100? your thoughts guys.
Last edited by RacerX1320; 04-11-2008 at 09:24 PM.
04-12-2008, 03:27 PM
#20
07-22-2008, 10:30 AM
#21
If I were to buy VQ35 cams, I can get the dowel pin holes drilled and spacers and install them? The degree of the holes sets the cam timing correct? I have read the two threads in the sticky and this is what I got out of it. Or does the holes drilled on the spacers set the cam timing? I am a little confused.
07-22-2008, 11:10 AM
#22
Yes, you are correct that the dowel holes do establish the cam timing.
The procedure used to determine the placement of these holes is involved however. You first must know where you want the power band to be. Because you are eliminating the variable portion of the cam timing, you must select a fixed number. Then, you must accurately place the location of this hole on the end of the camshaft. Some people have used spacers with dowels in them, but they would have to be accurately machined as well. There does not seem to be any current supplier for them. They have been produced by some of the members here for sale. Supply seems to be limited though.
The procedure used to determine the placement of these holes is involved however. You first must know where you want the power band to be. Because you are eliminating the variable portion of the cam timing, you must select a fixed number. Then, you must accurately place the location of this hole on the end of the camshaft. Some people have used spacers with dowels in them, but they would have to be accurately machined as well. There does not seem to be any current supplier for them. They have been produced by some of the members here for sale. Supply seems to be limited though.
07-22-2008, 02:40 PM
#23
Thanks.
Say I want an increase in power from 4,000RPM up. Would the gains from stock VQ35 cams be worth the time and effort to replace my stock cams? Or is it more difficult than I am thinking?
Say I want an increase in power from 4,000RPM up. Would the gains from stock VQ35 cams be worth the time and effort to replace my stock cams? Or is it more difficult than I am thinking?
07-22-2008, 07:03 PM
#24
It's time consuming but not technically difficult per say. Basically you remove the timing cover, sprockets, chains, tensioner/guides, UIM, valve covers, and cams. Assembly is reversed with the only difference being you put the 3.5 cams in(which have been either redrilled with spacers between the gear and cam, or using the adaptors between the cams and gear. Put the chains and tensioner/guides back on, valve covers, etc etc. Its a time consuming process, but if you have any experience in internal motor work, it's not difficult.
As for the spacer/adaptor option. With the spacers you have the cams redrilled to accept the dowel somewhere near 180* from the stock location(NOTE: it is NOT actually 180 exactly, I'm saying that to illustrate it's relative position) The original dowel is removed and you put the spacer and gear on the new dowel.
With the adaptors, you simply put them between the gear and the cam. They have a new dowel built into them for the gear to line up to and a hole for the original dowel on the cam. So it's plug and play basically, no machining required.
As for the power output? I don't really have any experience there to know the real difference, but IIRC there's been plenty of people doing it, though most go to aftermarket cams. With great success I might add.
As for the spacer/adaptor option. With the spacers you have the cams redrilled to accept the dowel somewhere near 180* from the stock location(NOTE: it is NOT actually 180 exactly, I'm saying that to illustrate it's relative position) The original dowel is removed and you put the spacer and gear on the new dowel.
With the adaptors, you simply put them between the gear and the cam. They have a new dowel built into them for the gear to line up to and a hole for the original dowel on the cam. So it's plug and play basically, no machining required.
As for the power output? I don't really have any experience there to know the real difference, but IIRC there's been plenty of people doing it, though most go to aftermarket cams. With great success I might add.
07-22-2008, 07:15 PM
#25
As for the spacer/adaptor option. With the spacers you have the cams redrilled to accept the dowel somewhere near 180* from the stock location(NOTE: it is NOT actually 180 exactly, I'm saying that to illustrate it's relative position) The original dowel is removed and you put the spacer and gear on the new dowel.
but IIRC there's been plenty of people doing it, though most go to aftermarket cams. With great success I might add.
News to me...
07-23-2008, 03:16 PM
#26
This cam timing position would sacrifice low end and midrange for top end power, aka fully retarded.
News to me...
ed position.
07-23-2008, 03:26 PM
#28
O. I meant 3.5L cams in general, not at 180*. I wasn't recommending that setting or anything. Guess I should be more specific next time.
<---Slow
<---Slow
Last edited by HM_Motorsports; 07-23-2008 at 03:31 PM.
07-23-2008, 06:32 PM
#29
I believe my cam adapters are giving me better midrange rather than topend. Dont know exactly what degree they were drilled at but id say somewhere in the mid 170s.
If you need help, write-up on how to do them, i can start a new thread of the step by step with the motor in the car, or how to drop the motor out and do it with the motor out of the car.(FYI, with it in the car, it took me about 7hrs by myself to redo my cam timing so i would think about another hour and a half disassembling the front and rear valve cover, UIM and bearing caps. or less time with help)
If you need help, write-up on how to do them, i can start a new thread of the step by step with the motor in the car, or how to drop the motor out and do it with the motor out of the car.(FYI, with it in the car, it took me about 7hrs by myself to redo my cam timing so i would think about another hour and a half disassembling the front and rear valve cover, UIM and bearing caps. or less time with help)
07-23-2008, 11:03 PM
#30
Dandy for one? I30krab, JapmaxSE just some of the names I remember doing it, although I30 was boosted I think. Deluboz, Crower, JWT. Seems the VQ35 cams have better offerings in the aftermarket. This isn't news to you? I see your name in almost every cam thread in the allmotor section? lol.
07-24-2008, 06:37 PM
#32
Arent earlier 350Z cams the same as the maximas vq35 cams?
I have some R50 pathfinder cams that ive been considering putting in. Not sure if i ever will though. Actually i have 2 or 3 sets lol.
I have some R50 pathfinder cams that ive been considering putting in. Not sure if i ever will though. Actually i have 2 or 3 sets lol.
07-24-2008, 08:11 PM
#33
Deluboz Cams are on sale right now. $501 I believe. I'd got that route, not spending an absolute fortune, but still better than stock 3.5 cams. Makes the effort that much more worth it in the end. Wish I'd done it with my 3.5 swap before I put the motor in 
But alas, I fail.
But alas, I fail.
07-29-2008, 11:54 AM
#34
IIRC, 183* is what Dandy's adapters were set at in his DEK with JWT S1 knockoffs. Just look at his thread about that beast if you want to see the results of 183* with those cams... here's what he told me:
That is in fact what my timing with the S1 knockoffs is and although there's some minor loss in the low-low/mid area, the driveability is still great with the 5-spd and around 4500 to well past 7000 it just screams.
Oh I guess I should qualify the driveability statement though... it is just fine now but that's after tuning with the EU. The cams are aggressive enough that at that timing there's still quite a bit of overlap and you'll have trouble getting the car to idle and respond crisply to throttle up to about 1500 rpms if it's not tuned, especially for AFR.
Last edited by mowgli29; 07-29-2008 at 12:08 PM.
07-29-2008, 07:01 PM
#35
My cam sprockets with the S1 knockoffs were at 182 degrees going by your numbering (so 4 crank degrees of advance = cam timing of 119/112 (int/exh)).
Also, having now recently swapped my old engine into an A33 I can report that the idle and off idle was handled relatively well by the stock A33 ECU.
Also, having now recently swapped my old engine into an A33 I can report that the idle and off idle was handled relatively well by the stock A33 ECU.
02-24-2009, 06:39 AM
#39
I believe my cam adapters are giving me better midrange rather than topend. Dont know exactly what degree they were drilled at but id say somewhere in the mid 170s.
If you need help, write-up on how to do them, i can start a new thread of the step by step with the motor in the car, or how to drop the motor out and do it with the motor out of the car.(FYI, with it in the car, it took me about 7hrs by myself to redo my cam timing so i would think about another hour and a half disassembling the front and rear valve cover, UIM and bearing caps. or less time with help)
If you need help, write-up on how to do them, i can start a new thread of the step by step with the motor in the car, or how to drop the motor out and do it with the motor out of the car.(FYI, with it in the car, it took me about 7hrs by myself to redo my cam timing so i would think about another hour and a half disassembling the front and rear valve cover, UIM and bearing caps. or less time with help)
I'd love to see a step by step with motor in the car. I am comtemplating stock 3.5 cams into a DEK auto. What should the timing be?
