suprastick owners step in. TC lockup question
suprastick owners step in. TC lockup question
had this issue for a while but its been getting on my nerves a bit.
i noticed a 1st gear hesitation when i go WOT. my guess its the TC locking up. i know you can adjust the lockup rpm settings to raise that up to coincide more with the fluid lock rpm of the TC but it won't matter if the solenoid lockup wire from the SS isn't connected to the TCM right? actually that has to be it, sounds stupid just asking that.
if that is the case, what do you guys have your lockup throttle value set at? default is 45 i believe. Alternately you can turn off 1st gear lockup via "lockup min gear" for both manual and auto modes as well but again, wouldn't you need to connect the SS solenoid lockup wire to the TCM? how do you actually turn it off? do you set the value to ZERO?
i noticed a 1st gear hesitation when i go WOT. my guess its the TC locking up. i know you can adjust the lockup rpm settings to raise that up to coincide more with the fluid lock rpm of the TC but it won't matter if the solenoid lockup wire from the SS isn't connected to the TCM right? actually that has to be it, sounds stupid just asking that.
if that is the case, what do you guys have your lockup throttle value set at? default is 45 i believe. Alternately you can turn off 1st gear lockup via "lockup min gear" for both manual and auto modes as well but again, wouldn't you need to connect the SS solenoid lockup wire to the TCM? how do you actually turn it off? do you set the value to ZERO?
Last edited by G4nismo; Jan 17, 2009 at 06:18 PM.
If you dont have the lockup wire connected to the SS, the SS has no control over the lockup function. Your TCM will still control lockup. If you have connected the lockup solenoid to the SS lockup wire and you dont want lockup in 1st gear, set lockup min auto and manual to 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear, whichever one you prefer to have the converter locked up in. Are you certain the hesitation is a SS issue?
When I had issues with the SS, it was one of three things. Erratic vehicle speed ( was perfect under light to mild throttle conditions but at WOT it would jump around). I solved that problem by using the front right ABS sensor. TPS has to be set right, and I'm still having issues with the RPM signal jumping around on me and I've tried everything. My SS is also very picky when it comes to where I ground it.
When I had issues with the SS, it was one of three things. Erratic vehicle speed ( was perfect under light to mild throttle conditions but at WOT it would jump around). I solved that problem by using the front right ABS sensor. TPS has to be set right, and I'm still having issues with the RPM signal jumping around on me and I've tried everything. My SS is also very picky when it comes to where I ground it.
If you dont have the lockup wire connected to the SS, the SS has no control over the lockup function. Your TCM will still control lockup. If you have connected the lockup solenoid to the SS lockup wire and you dont want lockup in 1st gear, set lockup min auto and manual to 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear, whichever one you prefer to have the converter locked up in. Are you certain the hesitation is a SS issue?
When I had issues with the SS, it was one of three things. Erratic vehicle speed ( was perfect under light to mild throttle conditions but at WOT it would jump around). I solved that problem by using the front right ABS sensor. TPS has to be set right, and I'm still having issues with the RPM signal jumping around on me and I've tried everything. My SS is also very picky when it comes to where I ground it.
When I had issues with the SS, it was one of three things. Erratic vehicle speed ( was perfect under light to mild throttle conditions but at WOT it would jump around). I solved that problem by using the front right ABS sensor. TPS has to be set right, and I'm still having issues with the RPM signal jumping around on me and I've tried everything. My SS is also very picky when it comes to where I ground it.
wouldn't it be a good idea to set the lockup in the latter gears like 3 or 4 for highway cruising?
right, i remember your thread on the erratic speed issue. too bad i don't have abs but seems like its been fine for me where ever i connected it (i think it was to the gauge)
and your not the only one with the rpm issues. in fact, mine would sometimes come on, then goes to ZERO. i haven't had time to try other connection areas but the SS functions fine w/o it, its the speed that matters
Ya, I have lock up set up in 4th gear at 80 km/h and under wot its set up in 4th gear with the a stall setting of 3100. But that wont make a difference until I get the RPM thing sorted out.
Can you describe the hesitation? Does it feel like the power is surging or does it struggle to pick up speed? When I tested lock up in 2nd gear with the SS, the power would come in waves rather than a smooth acceleration once the TC locked up. As a result I opted to leave lock up min in 4th gear.
The RPM thing would happen to me too. Sometimes it feels as though the SS just shuts down for some reason. RPM drops to zero and so does speed. At other times it would jump to like 20k RPM lol and the SS would start clicking. I got around this issue by switching the ground up to a number of different locations until I found one where the SS had a constant RPM signal and would not drop the speed signal.
Can you describe the hesitation? Does it feel like the power is surging or does it struggle to pick up speed? When I tested lock up in 2nd gear with the SS, the power would come in waves rather than a smooth acceleration once the TC locked up. As a result I opted to leave lock up min in 4th gear.
The RPM thing would happen to me too. Sometimes it feels as though the SS just shuts down for some reason. RPM drops to zero and so does speed. At other times it would jump to like 20k RPM lol and the SS would start clicking. I got around this issue by switching the ground up to a number of different locations until I found one where the SS had a constant RPM signal and would not drop the speed signal.
Ya, I have lock up set up in 4th gear at 80 km/h and under wot its set up in 4th gear with the a stall setting of 3100. But that wont make a difference until I get the RPM thing sorted out.
Can you describe the hesitation? Does it feel like the power is surging or does it struggle to pick up speed? When I tested lock up in 2nd gear with the SS, the power would come in waves rather than a smooth acceleration once the TC locked up. As a result I opted to leave lock up min in 4th gear.
The RPM thing would happen to me too. Sometimes it feels as though the SS just shuts down for some reason. RPM drops to zero and so does speed. At other times it would jump to like 20k RPM lol and the SS would start clicking. I got around this issue by switching the ground up to a number of different locations until I found one where the SS had a constant RPM signal and would not drop the speed signal.
Can you describe the hesitation? Does it feel like the power is surging or does it struggle to pick up speed? When I tested lock up in 2nd gear with the SS, the power would come in waves rather than a smooth acceleration once the TC locked up. As a result I opted to leave lock up min in 4th gear.
The RPM thing would happen to me too. Sometimes it feels as though the SS just shuts down for some reason. RPM drops to zero and so does speed. At other times it would jump to like 20k RPM lol and the SS would start clicking. I got around this issue by switching the ground up to a number of different locations until I found one where the SS had a constant RPM signal and would not drop the speed signal.
i could get a vid clip but believe it or not, i never posted a vid online before, hence on youtube where most people post. i tried once but the vid was like 20mb or something and just took forever and timed out. best i can describe in words is, its not a smooth acceleration under WOT. like midway as the rpm's are climbing, it stutters, hiccup, lags whatever you wanna call it, then resumes normally. and what do you mean by waves
? do you also remember what you set your 4rth gear lockup on/off speed to?
wow, 20k rpm? thats really abnormal. wait so you resolved the rpm issue just by switching the ground to another point? really??? where did you switch it to?
Those symptoms seem more like a spark/fuel or maf issue. Do you get the same symptoms when accelerating in 2nd gear at WOT?
When I locked up in 2nd gear, I did a datalog using the EU and it confirmed what I was feeling. There were spikes and dips in the rpm from the point of lockup right to redline. Acceleration wasnt smooth. The waves of power were most likey felt at the RPM spikes. Instead of a smooth curve, i got a really jagged graph. By waVes I meant like intermittent surges of power that would come and go. Locking up the TC felt like it got me more power but when I did timed runs from 60-100mph with the TC locked up and then unlocked, it netted me similar times. So I came to the conclusion that it wasnt necessary to lock up the TC since I saw no difference times.
For highway driving, i have 4th gear locking up at 80 km/h and unlocking at 75km/h. (I think its about 50mph and 46mph) I found the stock TCM setting to be a little too low for lockup because my engine would start lugging if locked up at 45mph or lower and would make a nasty chugging sound. For WOT, I have it setup for 4th gear as well but the throttle setting is at 65.
My RPM still fluctuates but I dont lose the signal completely. It never goes to zero anymore. What I did was measure the resistance of the ground I was using to the battery ground and I was seeing like 600ohms. I regrounded the SS and the ECM ground to the chassis under the passenger side kick panel. After that, my RPM only fluctuates about 400 points.
When I locked up in 2nd gear, I did a datalog using the EU and it confirmed what I was feeling. There were spikes and dips in the rpm from the point of lockup right to redline. Acceleration wasnt smooth. The waves of power were most likey felt at the RPM spikes. Instead of a smooth curve, i got a really jagged graph. By waVes I meant like intermittent surges of power that would come and go. Locking up the TC felt like it got me more power but when I did timed runs from 60-100mph with the TC locked up and then unlocked, it netted me similar times. So I came to the conclusion that it wasnt necessary to lock up the TC since I saw no difference times.
For highway driving, i have 4th gear locking up at 80 km/h and unlocking at 75km/h. (I think its about 50mph and 46mph) I found the stock TCM setting to be a little too low for lockup because my engine would start lugging if locked up at 45mph or lower and would make a nasty chugging sound. For WOT, I have it setup for 4th gear as well but the throttle setting is at 65.
My RPM still fluctuates but I dont lose the signal completely. It never goes to zero anymore. What I did was measure the resistance of the ground I was using to the battery ground and I was seeing like 600ohms. I regrounded the SS and the ECM ground to the chassis under the passenger side kick panel. After that, my RPM only fluctuates about 400 points.
Last edited by whlimi; Jan 17, 2009 at 09:12 PM.
Those symptoms seem more like a spark/fuel or maf issue. Do you get the same symptoms when accelerating in 2nd gear at WOT?
When I locked up in 2nd gear, I did a datalog using the EU and it confirmed what I was feeling. There were spikes and dips in the rpm from the point of lockup right to redline. Acceleration wasnt smooth. The waves of power were most likey felt at the RPM spikes. Instead of a smooth curve, i got a really jagged graph. By waVes I meant like intermittent surges of power that would come and go. Locking up the TC felt like it got me more power but when I did timed runs from 60-100mph with the TC locked up and then unlocked, it netted me similar times. So I came to the conclusion that it wasnt necessary to lock up the TC since I saw no difference times.
For highway driving, i have 4th gear locking up at 80 km/h and unlocking at 75km/h. (I think its about 50mph and 46mph) I found the stock TCM setting to be a little too low for lockup because my engine would start lugging if locked up at 45mph or lower and would make a nasty chugging sound. For WOT, I have it setup for 4th gear as well but the throttle setting is at 65.
My RPM still fluctuates but I dont lose the signal completely. It never goes to zero anymore. What I did was measure the resistance of the ground I was using to the battery ground and I was seeing like 600ohms. I regrounded the SS and the ECM ground to the chassis under the passenger side kick panel. After that, my RPM only fluctuates about 400 points.
When I locked up in 2nd gear, I did a datalog using the EU and it confirmed what I was feeling. There were spikes and dips in the rpm from the point of lockup right to redline. Acceleration wasnt smooth. The waves of power were most likey felt at the RPM spikes. Instead of a smooth curve, i got a really jagged graph. By waVes I meant like intermittent surges of power that would come and go. Locking up the TC felt like it got me more power but when I did timed runs from 60-100mph with the TC locked up and then unlocked, it netted me similar times. So I came to the conclusion that it wasnt necessary to lock up the TC since I saw no difference times.
For highway driving, i have 4th gear locking up at 80 km/h and unlocking at 75km/h. (I think its about 50mph and 46mph) I found the stock TCM setting to be a little too low for lockup because my engine would start lugging if locked up at 45mph or lower and would make a nasty chugging sound. For WOT, I have it setup for 4th gear as well but the throttle setting is at 65.
My RPM still fluctuates but I dont lose the signal completely. It never goes to zero anymore. What I did was measure the resistance of the ground I was using to the battery ground and I was seeing like 600ohms. I regrounded the SS and the ECM ground to the chassis under the passenger side kick panel. After that, my RPM only fluctuates about 400 points.
haven't gotten a code for the MAF so i don't think that can't be it.
2nd gear does NOT experience this. only happens in first. i think it really has to do with the TCM. i'm going to try to hook the lockup wire tonight if i have time and see if it goes away. ah crap, just remembered i left my usb/serial cable back at usc. guess i'll do it later...
ah, i see. i will keep that in mind.
what do you mean for highway driving you have it set at this and under WOT you have it set at that? you mean for like shift table 1 and 2? sorry man, its been a while since i played around w/ the SS.
mmm interesting. i'm going to reground mine then and try your idea. right now, the SS is grounded to the passenger seat bolt to the chassis. do you remember how much better the resistance reading was for the new ground point?
I just dont see how the SS could cause hesitation. All it does is switch on and off shift solenoids based on speed and throttle position. It doesnt use RPM for shift solenoids A and B but only for TC lockup under heavy throttle and over revving so that rules out the jumpy RPM signal.
For highway cruising (light to moderate throttle) the TC will lock up based on 4th gear lockup on/off speed and 3rd gear lockup on/off if you've set it up that way. Under heavy throttle or WOT (lockup min throttle, I think default is set at 45%) the SS ignores the 3rd and 4th gear lockup on/off speed setting. Instead it looks at lockup min throttle, stall speed setting, and lockup min gear setting to calculate when lockup occurs. So for example if your lockup min throttle is left at the default setting of 45, your stall speed is set at the default 2900, and lockup min gear is set to 2,then with a functioning rpm signal lockup will occur when throttle position is 45% or higher, the car is in 2nd gear, and RPM is 2900 or higher. If you want the car to lock up at 60% throttle, in 3rd gear and to lockup at 5500 rpm, then you would set min throttle to 60, lockup min gear auto to 3, and stall speed to 5500. I hope I'm being clear enough.
So to answer your question, you dont use two different maps for lockup between cruising and wot.
IIRC the resistance went down to about 23 ohms when I regrounded it.
For highway cruising (light to moderate throttle) the TC will lock up based on 4th gear lockup on/off speed and 3rd gear lockup on/off if you've set it up that way. Under heavy throttle or WOT (lockup min throttle, I think default is set at 45%) the SS ignores the 3rd and 4th gear lockup on/off speed setting. Instead it looks at lockup min throttle, stall speed setting, and lockup min gear setting to calculate when lockup occurs. So for example if your lockup min throttle is left at the default setting of 45, your stall speed is set at the default 2900, and lockup min gear is set to 2,then with a functioning rpm signal lockup will occur when throttle position is 45% or higher, the car is in 2nd gear, and RPM is 2900 or higher. If you want the car to lock up at 60% throttle, in 3rd gear and to lockup at 5500 rpm, then you would set min throttle to 60, lockup min gear auto to 3, and stall speed to 5500. I hope I'm being clear enough.
So to answer your question, you dont use two different maps for lockup between cruising and wot.
IIRC the resistance went down to about 23 ohms when I regrounded it.
I just dont see how the SS could cause hesitation. All it does is switch on and off shift solenoids based on speed and throttle position. It doesnt use RPM for shift solenoids A and B but only for TC lockup under heavy throttle and over revving so that rules out the jumpy RPM signal.
For highway cruising (light to moderate throttle) the TC will lock up based on 4th gear lockup on/off speed and 3rd gear lockup on/off if you've set it up that way. Under heavy throttle or WOT (lockup min throttle, I think default is set at 45%) the SS ignores the 3rd and 4th gear lockup on/off speed setting. Instead it looks at lockup min throttle, stall speed setting, and lockup min gear setting to calculate when lockup occurs. So for example if your lockup min throttle is left at the default setting of 45, your stall speed is set at the default 2900, and lockup min gear is set to 2,then with a functioning rpm signal lockup will occur when throttle position is 45% or higher, the car is in 2nd gear, and RPM is 2900 or higher. If you want the car to lock up at 60% throttle, in 3rd gear and to lockup at 5500 rpm, then you would set min throttle to 60, lockup min gear auto to 3, and stall speed to 5500. I hope I'm being clear enough.
So to answer your question, you dont use two different maps for lockup between cruising and wot.
IIRC the resistance went down to about 23 ohms when I regrounded it.
For highway cruising (light to moderate throttle) the TC will lock up based on 4th gear lockup on/off speed and 3rd gear lockup on/off if you've set it up that way. Under heavy throttle or WOT (lockup min throttle, I think default is set at 45%) the SS ignores the 3rd and 4th gear lockup on/off speed setting. Instead it looks at lockup min throttle, stall speed setting, and lockup min gear setting to calculate when lockup occurs. So for example if your lockup min throttle is left at the default setting of 45, your stall speed is set at the default 2900, and lockup min gear is set to 2,then with a functioning rpm signal lockup will occur when throttle position is 45% or higher, the car is in 2nd gear, and RPM is 2900 or higher. If you want the car to lock up at 60% throttle, in 3rd gear and to lockup at 5500 rpm, then you would set min throttle to 60, lockup min gear auto to 3, and stall speed to 5500. I hope I'm being clear enough.
So to answer your question, you dont use two different maps for lockup between cruising and wot.
IIRC the resistance went down to about 23 ohms when I regrounded it.
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