Requesting GURU help from Jime Jclaw Nismology
04-21-2009, 06:27 PM
#1
Requesting GURU help from Jime Jclaw Nismology
I've been Scouring the forums trying to find some info but it is scattered everywhere and somewhat incomplete for my concerns:
I have the 3.5 swap.
I'm running 3.0 timing and stock fuel pump. on returnless fuel rail on Vq35. Just relocated knock sensor to battery post and I'm worried about not having the safety net. I don't even know if the ks has been operational since the swap back in 2006, and I know Jclaw said he had issues with 100% 3.0 KS in vq35 and vice versa. Is this potential increase in timing (due to no knock) going to blow my motor, or is the advanced timing hungry 3.5 a good enough buffer for full Technosquare timing......?????
Cams are drilled to mimic the 3.0
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless).
Fred Allen Burge says that 00-01 Maxima Fuel pump will give proper pressure to vq35 motor and is a simple fix (with slight mod) for the returnless to return conversion....
I plan on going with this setup to boost up to 3.5 bar, but until then will I be ok????
PS:.....Anyone have the TechnoSquare timing maps?
I am referencing these threads:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...y-request.html
http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums..._CallBack=true
I have the 3.5 swap.
I'm running 3.0 timing and stock fuel pump. on returnless fuel rail on Vq35. Just relocated knock sensor to battery post and I'm worried about not having the safety net. I don't even know if the ks has been operational since the swap back in 2006, and I know Jclaw said he had issues with 100% 3.0 KS in vq35 and vice versa. Is this potential increase in timing (due to no knock) going to blow my motor, or is the advanced timing hungry 3.5 a good enough buffer for full Technosquare timing......?????
Cams are drilled to mimic the 3.0
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless).
Fred Allen Burge says that 00-01 Maxima Fuel pump will give proper pressure to vq35 motor and is a simple fix (with slight mod) for the returnless to return conversion....
I plan on going with this setup to boost up to 3.5 bar, but until then will I be ok????
PS:.....Anyone have the TechnoSquare timing maps?
I am referencing these threads:
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...y-request.html
http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums..._CallBack=true
Last edited by oTranscendental; 04-21-2009 at 07:03 PM.
04-21-2009, 09:21 PM
#2
Since seeing Jclaw's thread about the knock sensor, I did a few logs with the knock sensor on the block and also on the battery post. My timing didnt change at all. There was no increase so I'm assuming I was running full timing to begin with. What I can tell you is that the timing is a lot smoother. It doesnt have as many dips and spikes compared to the knock sensor on the block, and when you accelerate from a roll, timing doesnt retard as much before climbing again which makes the car feel a lot more responsive.
I have advanced timing by as much as 13* in some parts of the map and total timing logged the same with both setups so I'm not that concerned with the knock sensor being on the battery post.
Do you have any means of viewing/logging your timing?
I have advanced timing by as much as 13* in some parts of the map and total timing logged the same with both setups so I'm not that concerned with the knock sensor being on the battery post.
Do you have any means of viewing/logging your timing?
Last edited by whlimi; 04-21-2009 at 10:56 PM.
04-22-2009, 03:38 AM
#3
Since seeing Jclaw's thread about the knock sensor, I did a few logs with the knock sensor on the block and also on the battery post. My timing didnt change at all. There was no increase so I'm assuming I was running full timing to begin with. What I can tell you is that the timing is a lot smoother. It doesnt have as many dips and spikes compared to the knock sensor on the block, and when you accelerate from a roll, timing doesnt retard as much before climbing again which makes the car feel a lot more responsive.
I have advanced timing by as much as 13* in some parts of the map and total timing logged the same with both setups so I'm not that concerned with the knock sensor being on the battery post.
Do you have any means of viewing/logging your timing?
I have advanced timing by as much as 13* in some parts of the map and total timing logged the same with both setups so I'm not that concerned with the knock sensor being on the battery post.
Do you have any means of viewing/logging your timing?
04-22-2009, 05:50 AM
#4
If your KS didnt work, i'm sure it would throw a code.
You can try grounding it somewhere else like the battery post or the firewall and see if you notice a difference in the performance of your car....
You can try grounding it somewhere else like the battery post or the firewall and see if you notice a difference in the performance of your car....
04-22-2009, 09:08 PM
#5
[QUOTE=oTranscendental;6994850]
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless)
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless)
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
Last edited by Weimar Ben; 04-22-2009 at 09:12 PM.
04-23-2009, 09:49 AM
#6
[QUOTE=Weimar Ben;6996987]
Even with the technosquare tune?
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless)
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
Even with the technosquare tune?
04-23-2009, 10:03 AM
#7
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[QUOTE=Weimar Ben;6996987]That's really dependent on fuel pressure, and I highly doubt anyone here is running the same pressures. The 10-11's afaik comes from the original swap faq which also recommended running 50+ psi!! 32-34 psi w/vacuum connected has resulted in me having near perfect mid to low 13's across the board on 2 separate cars, one of them being a 4.5 gen and the other being that 02vi swap.
04-27-2009, 03:38 PM
#8
04-27-2009, 04:09 PM
#9
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That was me, I maxed out the stock fuel pump (or at least my stock pump with 160k miles) with the 3.5 swap, I dynoed 273whp. I had a thread somewhere on it. The car was perfect until a certain rpm and then it would start going lean, I added fuel via SAFC and tried turning up the pressure and nothing helped, always the same rpm it would go lean. I changed to the walbro pump and it was fixed.
04-27-2009, 05:48 PM
#11
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I copied and pasted this from my cardomain page, but you get the idea. All the bolt-ons and cams. I did no head work, not even port matching, but I wish I had done that and a little mild porting because I could have made more. My max power still peaked and was falling before 7000rpm.
JWT hybrid intake
ported MAF sensor
70mm TB
A33 IM modded
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
test pipe
2.5 inch electric exhaust cutout in test pipe
2.5 b-pipe
hooker muffler
JWT VQ30 ecu with 7000rpm redline
UR underdrive pulley
Spec stage 2 clutch/stock 4th gen flywheel
cattman headers
adjustable fpr
SAFC II/zeitronix WB02 tune
JWT hybrid intake
ported MAF sensor
70mm TB
A33 IM modded
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
test pipe
2.5 inch electric exhaust cutout in test pipe
2.5 b-pipe
hooker muffler
JWT VQ30 ecu with 7000rpm redline
UR underdrive pulley
Spec stage 2 clutch/stock 4th gen flywheel
cattman headers
adjustable fpr
SAFC II/zeitronix WB02 tune
04-27-2009, 06:44 PM
#12
ahhh sorry I should have checked that, thanks. Looks like its just all those little things that add up once you've done the major bolt-ons. I notice you didnt do any "extreme" tuning like with an EU though, it seems rare for people to take it to that extent.
04-28-2009, 04:35 AM
#13
I copied and pasted this from my cardomain page, but you get the idea. All the bolt-ons and cams. I did no head work, not even port matching, but I wish I had done that and a little mild porting because I could have made more. My max power still peaked and was falling before 7000rpm.
JWT hybrid intake
ported MAF sensor
70mm TB
A33 IM modded
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
test pipe
2.5 inch electric exhaust cutout in test pipe
2.5 b-pipe
hooker muffler
JWT VQ30 ecu with 7000rpm redline
UR underdrive pulley
Spec stage 2 clutch/stock 4th gen flywheel
cattman headers
adjustable fpr
SAFC II/zeitronix WB02 tune
JWT hybrid intake
ported MAF sensor
70mm TB
A33 IM modded
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
test pipe
2.5 inch electric exhaust cutout in test pipe
2.5 b-pipe
hooker muffler
JWT VQ30 ecu with 7000rpm redline
UR underdrive pulley
Spec stage 2 clutch/stock 4th gen flywheel
cattman headers
adjustable fpr
SAFC II/zeitronix WB02 tune
I have most of your mods except :
ported MAF sensor (what kind? 3"?)
70mm TB (you need safc to make this work properly, right?)
A33 IM modded (ssim?)
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
As far as tuning, I've been tryint to get the SMT6 to work right for a long time, but every time I get close I endup side tracked on another repair or mod...... I'm about to give up on the damn thing and get an safc or vafc.
273hp is very impressive! Got any tips?
04-28-2009, 08:30 AM
#14
I have most of your mods except :
ported MAF sensor (what kind? 3"?)
70mm TB (you need safc to make this work properly, right?)
A33 IM modded (ssim?)
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
As far as tuning, I've been tryint to get the SMT6 to work right for a long time, but every time I get close I endup side tracked on another repair or mod...... I'm about to give up on the damn thing and get an safc or vafc.
273hp is very impressive! Got any tips?
ported MAF sensor (what kind? 3"?)
70mm TB (you need safc to make this work properly, right?)
A33 IM modded (ssim?)
JDM cams (same specs as JWT)
As far as tuning, I've been tryint to get the SMT6 to work right for a long time, but every time I get close I endup side tracked on another repair or mod...... I'm about to give up on the damn thing and get an safc or vafc.
273hp is very impressive! Got any tips?
And BTW, I was at the dyno when he ran 17:1 AFR. I know the dyno's WB ran lean compared to my IM WB, so he probably really only hit 16:1, but still, it was incredibly lean. I have your run files on my computer, so here's one of your runs:
Notice the spikes in power and AFR. Maybe those come from jumpy timing?
04-28-2009, 12:23 PM
#15
And again, in my experience, I've seen the tailsniffer give false lean readings due to the main cat being in place. I'm not sure how your exhaust set-up is, but that's something to keep in mind.
04-29-2009, 09:59 PM
#16
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I would not run returnless. I tried and didnt like it. Just a head and block swap. Run it like a stock 3.0. Mine runs like a stock car in normal driving. Stock clutch and all.
The stock fuel pump is good for like 340 hp. An untuned 3.5 runs about 260 hp. Just run the stock setup with good oxygen sensors. Mine smells like fuel so I am not worried about running lean. I am grinding off the VIAS valve to make a simple close-off plate tomorrow. That way the last 2 cylinders have less chance of running lean.
Returnless is fine with the VTCs and 2k2 computer (in tank FPR stock) but if you do the swap the good ol way just keep the stock stuff. Pull the engine, timing chain swap, engine back in, starts right up like a 3.0.
The stock fuel pump is good for like 340 hp. An untuned 3.5 runs about 260 hp. Just run the stock setup with good oxygen sensors. Mine smells like fuel so I am not worried about running lean. I am grinding off the VIAS valve to make a simple close-off plate tomorrow. That way the last 2 cylinders have less chance of running lean.
Returnless is fine with the VTCs and 2k2 computer (in tank FPR stock) but if you do the swap the good ol way just keep the stock stuff. Pull the engine, timing chain swap, engine back in, starts right up like a 3.0.
05-01-2009, 02:10 AM
#17
I would not run returnless. I tried and didnt like it. Just a head and block swap. Run it like a stock 3.0. Mine runs like a stock car in normal driving. Stock clutch and all.
The stock fuel pump is good for like 340 hp. An untuned 3.5 runs about 260 hp. Just run the stock setup with good oxygen sensors. Mine smells like fuel so I am not worried about running lean. I am grinding off the VIAS valve to make a simple close-off plate tomorrow. That way the last 2 cylinders have less chance of running lean.
Returnless is fine with the VTCs and 2k2 computer (in tank FPR stock) but if you do the swap the good ol way just keep the stock stuff. Pull the engine, timing chain swap, engine back in, starts right up like a 3.0.
The stock fuel pump is good for like 340 hp. An untuned 3.5 runs about 260 hp. Just run the stock setup with good oxygen sensors. Mine smells like fuel so I am not worried about running lean. I am grinding off the VIAS valve to make a simple close-off plate tomorrow. That way the last 2 cylinders have less chance of running lean.
Returnless is fine with the VTCs and 2k2 computer (in tank FPR stock) but if you do the swap the good ol way just keep the stock stuff. Pull the engine, timing chain swap, engine back in, starts right up like a 3.0.
would you recomend running a walbro fuel pump on the vq35 swap?
05-03-2009, 03:45 PM
#18
Just to chime in.. my stock 4th gen fuel pump couldn't keep up to my 270whp DEK... I switched to a Walbro also to take care of that. WOT fuel pressure setting was 44 psi at the time IIRC... or maybe it was 46... can't remember now, but it maxed out somewhere around 250 whp at that pressure.
05-03-2009, 05:39 PM
#19
[QUOTE=Weimar Ben;6996987]
i get occasional puffs of black smoke as well. glad im not the only one...i just finished my motor and started freakin out bc i thought i was burning oil like no tomorrow but did a compression test and im perfect, but running af ratio around 15 cruising. when i punch it a little i go down to 12.
but i cant go more than 3000 rpms for long until i get tuned after break in.
as for fuel pressure i cant get more than 45 psi out of my regulator with it cranked up. im probably gonna get a walbro in the future for sure.
I understand vq35 likes more advance timing than the 3.0, but with my Techno square ecu I don't know what the timing map looks like and am worried about lean conditions. I've already seen some lean ratios on the dyno with the KS in the correct position 17:1 in the high rpms(keep in mind I am using the 3.0 fuel pump @ 3.0BAR Returnless)
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
The 3.0 fuel pump is more than adequate and that's what 99% of the 3.5 swaps are using. I really have to doubt your data about a 17.5 lean condition at high rpms though. The 3.0 ECU with 3.5 injectors runs pig rich without tuning. And I'm not sure a motor would survive long at a 17.5 AFR at high RPMs and WOT.
I'd say that most untuned 3.0 ECUs with the 3.5 probably have an AFR in the 10s and 11s at high RPMs. I still need to get a tune and I run so rich that I have a little bit of black smoke at WOT and high RPMs.
It's hard to get a modern fuel injected motor to go lean enough to do damage without nitrous or a turbo. All cars are programmed to run rich from the factory.
i get occasional puffs of black smoke as well. glad im not the only one...i just finished my motor and started freakin out bc i thought i was burning oil like no tomorrow but did a compression test and im perfect, but running af ratio around 15 cruising. when i punch it a little i go down to 12.
but i cant go more than 3000 rpms for long until i get tuned after break in.
as for fuel pressure i cant get more than 45 psi out of my regulator with it cranked up. im probably gonna get a walbro in the future for sure.
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