I need some advice; I want to install my system after Christmas. My question is I have a JVC double den, I want to in stall Cerwin - Vega Component front and back going to install the tweeter in the door. I have two Pioneer 12" that I would like to install in the trunk, what would be the best way to hook this up what size amp. The speakers are 450 each. Alternatively, should I get a big enough amp that will power the house speakers or should I just put the amp on the two 12". I need my trunk space so I do not want to put them in a box. Thank

 

If the deck is like 40wx4 then hooking up the interior speakers wouldn't be so bad, but to properly juice them I would reccommend a seperate amp. For your budget I would say as long as you don't care if it is too loud then hook em up to the deck. The subs need a seperate amp, and I personally always run Rockford Fosgate even though there are better. For your budget, if you don't care about pounding your brains out, try going to a swapmeet and getting a cheapo 1000W amp for like a buck fifty. For your trunk space there are boxes that would permit more than adequete space. MAX8MYCASH has a setup that puts the subs where the spare is pointing upwards thereby keeping near stock space. Or a truck box pushed up against the back seat would be a nice alternative. There are so many ways to go, so get a good pictue in your head before you do anything.

 

OK, the radio is 40X4 so I will just hook up the house speakers to the radio & the two 12" on a amp, I want to put them on a pace of wood and have it carpeted to match the gray interior and place them all the way in back of the seat. What do you think?

 

If the speakers are open air, should be printed on the box but I don't think Pioneer makes any like that, then go right ahead. Keep in mind that even open air speakers will not pound like they do in a sealed enclosure. You could build a solid sealed enclosure that is 7-9"'s thick, about 16-17"'s high, and atleast 45"'s wide. If you are really tight on space then might I reccomend a special box built underneath the rear seats. This is what I am working on right now. I want to put two 8" woofers under the seat along with all the mids, and have a seperate switch that will turn on the set of 15"'s I am going to put in the trunk. It all depends on what kind of quality you are going for, pounding or accurate reproductions.

 

I dont have much need for glass braking BASS, but....I'm looking for the best Quality for the little that I have.I'm trying not to put the 12" in a box there are air free.

 

You could run the in-car speakers off of the head unit, but it really would be a waste of the componants. 40 watts in a head unit probably is only about 15 watts RMS. They will work ok, but far from their designed potential.

The shop that did my first sub in my first max had a pretty neat set up with 2 free air 12s. Build a 3/4 MDF frame on the back of the seats, fire the subs into the seat with big power.

I don't want to come off as an audio snob, but I think you would be happier in the long run if you rethink some of your stratagies.

 

I debated whether or not to say something similar... Rethinking would be wise.... Or, at least, don't spend a lot of money on the install of the two 12 inch subs.... I predict you won't be happy, but if you don't spend much money, then at least you'll still have some money to try something else. Incidentally, model numbers of all the speakers involved would help.

My other big question... you said a couple things that got me wondering.... something about "house speakers"? Are the Cerwin Vegas out of a house speaker? If so, they'll be 8 ohm speakers, which won't harm anything, but just up front, cut in half the actual wattage that your amp will deliver into 8 ohms rather than 4. So if it's a head unit rated at 40 watts per channel, we can be Kind, and say it's really about 15 watts, and into 8 ohms, 7.5 watts...

My other question.... (Forgive me if I misunderstood)... were you putting tweeters up front, and the woofers of the Cerwin Vegas in back? You wouldn't be happy with that either.

 

No there not house speakers. There are Cerwin Vega Stealth 2502 6 1/2 with tweeters. I want to replace the speakers in the door and the ones on the back deck with the 2502. They come with tweeters that I want to install in the door also. However, I am trying to find out the best way to install the 12" without putting a box in the trunk. The 12' are air free. I want to run the Cerwin Vega only off the radio and run the 12' off an amp in the trunk. Why do you guys think that I would not be happy with this setup? (All speakers are brand new)
Thanks.

 

Your best bet is to run your seperates up front and coaxils in the rear. I too have thought about it but the imaging would be shot. Notice how many competitors dont do that. If you dont want a sub box in the rear, you can build them into your rear deck. I've doen this before.

You better suppose that rear deck w/ MDF or fiberglass. Im not sure if 12" woofers will fit but i know the 8 and 10's fit. BTW use plenty of dynamat too. Personally i think free-air sound terrible. They dont have the best freq responce either.

I would just mount the amps to the back of the seat and build a custom box to fit the contours of your truck. This will look the cleanest and save you some room. Another way is also builf the box into your spare tire well. That is great way too.

 

If you aren't careful, the 2 sets of speakers will start compeating and the sound quality goes way down.I get EXCELLENT sound quality with this setup. I would build a box for the 12's, and buy an amp, and at first run the components off the head unit, just to see what it sounds like. But I can bet it won't be enough. With 2 12's, your going to need some power to keep up with the bass. I run 75 watts rms x2 for the front components, and it's just about right for the 1 10" Pioneer sub I have running at 150 watts. As a general rule of thumb, I try to keep it so half of the wattage running to the sub goes to each component. (i.e. 150 wattsx1 for the sub, 75 watts x2 for the components.) keeps it very well balanced in my case.

 

Ok now I am lost! So your saying not to put the Cerwin Vega on the back deck just the front? I really dont want to put the speakers in a box. What about this....What if I place the 2 12" in back of the seat in the trunk?

 

in the rear. By having most of the sound coming from the front speakers makes everything sound more natural. If you go to a concert, the speakers and sound come from the front, not the rear. Same logic here. Some people don't mind this and have upgraded speakers in both front and rear. I say do the fronts first and see if you like it. No matter what, I would run the rear, even if upgraded only on the head units power. As far as running the 12's free air, It will mainly depend on if they are designed to be capable to run free-air. the fronts of the subs will have to be compleatly sealed off from the trunk. The panel you build to mount the subs with has to be sealed off from the trunk. 100% airtight. If not, the subs don't work as designed.

 

OK, I'm slowly getting the picture... you own TWO pairs of the Cerwin Vegas, right?

Topic 1, speakers in the front, not the rear:
Without a sub, most people make heavy use of the rear deck speakers, because the rear speakers produce moor bass than the door speakers (because of the trunk air-space).

But, once you get a sub, bass becomes so plentiful, that you don't need the help of the rear speakers any more, so many people start fading the rear speakers to be either off, or very quietly playing, so that most of the "soundstage" is in front of you, not behind you, but you're still getting all the bass you'd ever want.


The next question, why don't we think the 2 12 inch free air subs will sound good? Actually, they'll sound somewhere between "OK" and "Pretty good", but not as good as they might potentially sound in a well made boxed solution.

Why so?
1. Sealing off of the "back wave" of the speaker... (I forget the proper term for that). If you don't, the back wave cancels out the front wave quite a bit, so you get much less Bass. Ever listened to a speaker driver, not in any box at all, just sitting in a room? Little or no Bass, right? So, unless you seal off the sound coming from the back of the speakers, you won't get as much bass as you could. Few people do the sealing off properly (it's tough to do, actually), so therefore, most free air installations aren't reaching their full potential.

2. Efficiency. Smaller boxes play louder, but have less low bass (in general, except with subs specially designed and built for small boxes). Huge boxes (such as a car's trunk) have better lower bass extension, but are less don't play as loud. That's why Box size is such a touchy and important subject. And that's why free-air subwoofers don't play as loud as boxed subs.

3. So what we're saying, is the free air installation will sound "pretty good", assuming it's done right. Your woofers won't sound terrible... they just won't sound as good or play as loud as a Box install that's done right. You're not alone, by the way... Lots of people don't want to give up trunk space.

4. Incidentally, several manufacturers make speaker lines specifically intended for free air installations, including JL Audio.

5. And also incidentally... with lots of power, some of the single woofer, small box solutions sound very good, and don't take up much of your trunk space.

 

I'm still interested if not.

 

Yeah, I did sell it. <cursing and swearing that I didn't try to sell it for more money>

If anything goes south with the sale, I'll be in touch, but my buyer seemed pretty definite about the purchase...

I'm not sure where, but I know some internet seller somewhere had them going new for $359. I'd definitely buy one again.

 

ok ok I'm gettinh it. but my OEM spearkers in the rear sound like S**t.There are torn I can put my finger right thought it. The front speakers are fine, So now what?

 

I'd check it out, although I liked your deal better. would have given me a chance to try out different subs with the box.

 

Just buy a $50 pair of dual cones. They work fine....

 

ok so we go the front and rear spearkers done. As far as the 12" are 450 watts(each) so just place them in the trunk without a box would not give me the best sound? The amp should be about what...1000 Watts?

 

It's up to you... Your options are...
1. Put the door speakers in the rear deck, when you get the Cerwin Vega speakers,
2. Or, buy a modest set of new speakers, for the rear
3. Or, buy expensive fancy speakers for the rear

I'd just re-use the door speakers, if it was me...

Hey, why not get a 4/3/2 channel amp, or a 5/4/3 channel Amp? Start modest, with amplifying the front speakers and the subs with the amp. That'll probably make you very happy, but if not, you can always try the other way, or better yet, add a second amp later, without having to throw out the first one.

I'd rather have 25 watts to all 4 speakers, than 100 watts just to the subs. That's just my opinion, but with the multi-channel amp, you can try all the different ways at your disposal.

 

then that means the 450 watts will proly be max, not RMS power. My 10 has 400 watts printed everywhere on the back of the sub, but RMS it can only handle 140 watts. I'd say just guessing, you'd need an amp pushing 150x2 RMS to play it safe. They might handle 200 each but I don't know the specs to give a definite answer.

 

What do you guys think about Bazooka Bass Tubes? and do you think the 12" would sound good in the tube. I dont mine putting a tube

 

I'll do that...put the front door speakers in the rear and the Vega in the in the front.

 

I have heard them in cars, as well as Kicker's square tubes(forget their name) and I don't think they do very well in a car. They can, but it's all about placement.

 

Whitemax... Nice web site, by the way...
No, I don't know who specifically it was... (It was told to me by somebody trying to beat me down on price when I was selling the whole Stealthbox with the woofer, before I decided to just keep the woofer, and sell the box).

I'd recommend visiting http://www.carmedia1.com and mmxpress.com, and perhaps calling them up in person to see if they sell it (JL Audio cracks down on internet sales pretty fiercely, so some retailers will still sell via special orders, but not post it on the web). Incidentally, I've seen both good and bad things about both those particular internet retailers over in rec.audio.car, so buyer beware... I got a reasonably acceptable deal on mine at a legit authorized dealer.

Wayne:
If I were buying a tube, I'd go straight to http://www.hsuresearch.com and buy theirs, end of discussion. If I were buying a new sub, but not a Tube, I'd probably still get the Hsu. It's a great subwoofer. (I know, I know... you've never heard of it.. Visit rec.audio.car or go to http://www.deja.com and search for it, you'll see lots of people saying very good things about it).

 

Thanks for all the Help Guys !