is 325 a good price for the phoenix gold zx600ti used???

 

Assuming it's in nice condition, then HELL YES it's a good price. But, I would like to know how old it is, what kind of shape it's in, if the previous owner took good care of it, etc. If it's dinged up or just in poor condition then keep looking.

Tony

 

he said not scratches and stuff.. it was mounted in an amp rack.... i guess i'm buying it then.

 

What are you planning to power with it? I have always felt the ZXTi amps were over rated by PG. I own one and like it a lot, but it is over rated. Very inefficient, especially for subs. If you are looking to power subs I would look elsewhere. For mids or midbass drivers it would be a nice amp.

 

i just bought the amp... i'm going to power up another alumapro alchemy 12dvc.. this would be the second zx600ti.. i just wanted another one for display. i felt the zx600ti help up real well when i was powering two JL12w6 with jsut one amp..

 

i have always felt that PG makes good amps for subs but not for speakers.. that's why i got the ppi pc4800 for my focal utopias instead of going with more phoenix gold.

 

I've never heard someone say that ZX amps are overrated. Quite the contrary I might add. Car Stereo Review tested one a few years back and said the rated numbers were very conservative. As a matter of fact, the reviewer said it was one of the most transparent amps he'd tested. I concur. I've used ZX amps with my Nakamichi CD-700 and 3-way Dynaudio set and was VERY happy with the results. The only downfall I have heard of with the ZX amps are that the built-in Linkweitz (spelling?) xovers are under-par considering the quality of of the output of the amp. I think they're one of the best "sounding" amps out there, and they don't get the credit they deserve.
Just my .02.

Tony

 

The problem is that they are rated stable at 1 ohm stereo by PG. But it's real easy to overheat the amp at 2 ohm stereo. Also the SQ drops considerably everytime you lower the impedance. This amps SQ should be as good at 1 ohm stereo as the competition at 4 ohms when you consider it costs 2-3 times as much new. The efficiency is only around 46%. And the output is less than what is expected of an amp with such high reviews and prices. The 475Ti is sold as a 75X4 amp, but rated as about 18X4. So yes, it beats the 18X4 number easilly. But I think it fell short of the 75 X 4 number. The amps are also considerably inconsistant. Look at a shelf of these amps and you will see RMS outputs in bridged mode varying by 100 watts. I wouldn't want to power highs because of the SQ issue. I still have mine running after two years because I don't yet have the money for something else.

 

The only reason it's rated at 18x4 is for competition purposes. They rate their amps at 12-volts output, but when the voltage goes to 14.4 (as most cars after the engine is running) the output jumps way up. I'm not even sure if they're doing that anymore. The ZX600TI is rated at 75x2. I have a ZX450, ZX500, and a ZX475TI. The only bad thing I can say about them is that the the older pre-TI models have cheesy gold-plated RCA plugs that pull out of the amplifier when you unhook the RCA cables. Very poor design.

Check out Car Stereo Review, August 2000. Ken Pohlmann reviews the ZX60ti:

"Phoenix Gold's ZEROpoint ZX600TI performed effortlessly on the test bench with both finesse and power. Distortion was very low, frequency response was essentially flat, and S/N (especialy at minimum gain) was high. Power output far exceeded the amps specifications. For example, stereo output was 204.5 watts per channel into 4 ohms, and a whopping 640.1 watts mono when bridged into 4 ohms. These are excellent numbers."

"This is another top performer from Phoenix Gold, a company that knows its amplifiers. The ZEROpoint ZX600TI is a very accurate amplifier with very little coloration in its signal path. Moreover, that accuracy is not at the expense of power. This baby really cranks out very health levels."

"I expected the ZX600TI, like all of Phoenix Gold's amps I've tested, to be extremely accurante with little sonic coloration. What I did not expect was that this little beauty would blow my roof off. The first time I cranked it up, I nearly drove into a palm tree. Its output power was clearly way beyond the rated spec."

Jmax, I'm not sure what kind of amps you're used to listening to that are superior to ZXs, but I've had them with all sorts of different equipment and cars. I've used them with the best of the best head units and speakers and as far as I can tell they were not the weakest link. They're small, have built-in fans, their sub-levels are remote-controllable, and their xovers are very flexible. I'm not sure why I'm defending them so much, other than the fact that I'm a huge fan!

Tony

 

Sorry, but the MTX I compared to back to back sounded cleaner at high output, as well as had more power for half the dollars. Maybe it's that I am used to my home Adcom when I expect tight bass in a sub system. I think that amp sold for over $600 new. It sure as hell better put out 200 watts with 14.4 volts. But why does it overheat so easilly when pushed if the fan is so effective? And PG should consider that the car is dependant on an alternator for power and try for at least 50% efficiency. The only reason I kept the PG was the crossover. Allowed me to bandpass my midbass without adding another seperate crossover in my trunk. The MTX's can only vary frequency up to 200 Hz. I think one of the goals of the autosound industry should be to standardize the voltage equipment is tested and rated at. Some amp manufactuers can be counted on a 150 watt amp putting out 200 watts with 12.5 volts. Others struggle to reach their ratings at an ideal 14.4 volts. I have a steady 14.4 in my trunk at the amp terminals, but most do not.

I can understand people likeing things when they really soley on the exact wording of a magazine article that depends on advertisements from the company they are reviewing. It's when you can read an article like that and pick out what is really important in the real world and in a sound system that you are doing yourself a favor by reading the mag.

 

Well, this is where you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. But you really hurt my feelings when you grouped Phoenix Gold ZX amps with MTX! OUCH! I would tend to group the ZX line with a more elite status of car audio and MTX towards middle-of-the road. Not sure about your problems with the amp overheating. None of mine have ever done that. Not sure about more power consumption either. All I can tell you is that every vehicle I have owned since using ZX amps has been breathtaking. Every co-audiophile I have had listen to my system has loved the clarity, volume, and SQ of my lower end, not to mention the rest of the audio spectrum. I agree that the industry should have some sort of universal standard, though.

I've subscribed to Car Stereo Review for many many years. Even though I don't care for the magazine as much as I used to,(content) their reviewers are very thorough and give detailed reasons for their judgements about the products they test. Like you said, this allows for the educated reader to be able to make their decision on a certain product based on the particulars of the review, not just the summation. I've seen plenty of poor reviews on products that are always advertising in that magazine and rave reviews on lesser-known brands that don't appear hardly (if any) at all. And, if it matters, I've been a PG ZX fan long before the article came out.

Tony

 

Phoenix Gold is one of the few companies that still makes quality amplifiers these days. I used to have a ZX500v2. As far as any new amps out these days, Phoenix are the only ones that I would every buy. Since PPI was bought and sold twice their stuff has become sub-par in my taste. I hope PG keeps making quality stuff. I've seen so many "good" brands turn to crap chain store brands in the past years.


Tony, wanna reccomend a set of components for me? I pulled out my old setup MB Quart 218.02CX with QM200.2 crossovers but the mids looked beat to hell. I don't really know who's making good speakers these days. I'll be using a PPI A600.2 to drive them.

 

i'm running the focal utopia 165w3 can't go wrogn with those, and also try looking into dynaudio, illusion and if you have really deep pockets i'de say go with rainbow reference.

 

I am not Tony but I can definitely say there are a lot of good speakers to choose from. No one who has been in my car has ever said a bad thing about my Diamonds'. But I have seen on the net other complaints about harshness and tweeers cutting off at high volume. Diamond has a tweeter cut off in the crossover so that the tweets can't receive a clipped signal. I don't use the crossover because I have a seperate amp powering the tweets. And I have never heard them distort at all at any power level.

Others to look into:
The soon to be released Adire Audio
component set.
Focal, Kevlar and W series
Dynaudio
Illusion Audio
CDT
Image Dynamics
DD Audio

 

Cobymoby,

Jmax suggested Diamond HEX speakers. I used to have a component set myself and found them to quite nice. I think they are a good blend of not-too-expensive vs. high end speakers.

Since speaker questions are fairly subjective, I'll just tell you I don't care for MB Quart at all. They hurt my ears and sound artificially bright to me. But, they are a quality company and if you like them then that's all that matters.

Another thing to consider is what kind of speakers will sound good with your PPI amp. I'm a firm believer that different combinations of equipment and/or brands have different consequences. In my above example of my dislike for MB Quarts, I may like them better if I listened to them with a "warm" sounding HU or amp. It might make up for the harshness I don't care for. I've never had a PPI amp before, so I'm not sure about any recommendation based on this principle.

And the final question is what exactly do you desire in your quest for speakers and how much do you want to spend? I have found that "generally" speaking, the more $$ you spend the happier you will be. When asking opinions, it also helps to compare brands with other brands you are already familiar with in terms of what liked and didn't like about them. In this way you are more likely to make the right choice. And contrary to most other audio enthusiasts, I am not a big fan of choosing speakers (or any other equipment for that matter) based on a short listening session at your local retailer. Unless you can find a setup that resembles your own (HU & amp) then you may find it quite different sounding once you install it in your car. Plus, I have found that some of the most expensive speakers out there do not sound very impressive upon first, second, or even third listening sessions. It isn't until later, after your ears have adjusted and you have had time to listen to music that you are intimate with, that you begin to realize what originally sounded "good" might not be exactly something that you will be happy with in the long run.

I would have to agree with everyone else in their suggestions so far. I would add a/d/s to that list as well.

Tony

 

TO give you an idea of what I have liked in the past:

MB Quart
Boston Pro series
Eclipse Components
Phoenix Gold Zero Point

I'm looking to get a set that retails for around $500-600. How do you like Diamond Audio M6 series separates? One of my friends is a Diamond Dealer and he really wants me to get these.

 

The MB Quarts and Bostons are a little harsh sounding, in my opinion. The Bostons are not quite as bad. I don't have any experience with the Eclipses or PGs. However, it sounds as if you might prefer (based only on the MBQs and Bostons) a brighter speaker as opposed to a more neutral, warmer sounding one. Most metal-dome tweeters (aluminum, etc) sound brighter than say a soft-dome (silk, etc). I think you would be happy with some Diamond Audio HEX separates with their aluminum-dome tweeters. I think they still offer their HEX components with either type of tweeter. I am not familiar with their M6 series.

Jmax has some Diamonds. Any thoughts Jmax?

Tony

 

If I were planning to buy new components this month, then this is what it would be:
http://adireaudio.com/car_audio/Comp...components.htm
At that price I may buy two sets!

 

the amp just came in.. it looks good.. i hope it works tho. i'm going to bench test it this week.