Tanman

They were working fine when I drove to work, then when I started the car to go home, the two amps for the speakers and sub wouldn't turn on.

1) The stereo is fine, because one of my speakers is connected to the HU and it is working ok. The three other speakers are connected to a Rockford Fosgate Punch 600.4 amp. The sub amp is connected to a 12" sub. Neither amp will turn on.

2) Both are connected to a 1 farad cap which is reading .0-.1V?? I recharged the cap, and at first it read .8V, then dropped to .3V, then down to .1V. I removed the cap from the setup, so the 4 gauge power cable goes straight from the battery to the splitter, then one of two 8 gauge wires go to an amp. The ground wire is also split this way. Same problem.

3) I swapped the battery, same problem.

4) No fuses are blown in the sub amp or the power wire. The RF amp doesn't have any fuses.

5) Ground wires are all secure.

6) Checked the power turn on wire, it is connected from the HU, split into three wires, and connected to the cap and the two amps. The power turn on wire looks ok, and it turns on the cap, so it should be ok.

Any ideas what could be going wrong?

Black97SE

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like it could be a ground problem. Is it grounded to a good ground, bare metal?

victor

iTrader: (1)

that's also what i was suspecting, but he stated his grounds are secure.

Tanman

I'll check the grounds again, but they were secure and grounded the same as always. Would the grounding problem cause the cap to drain like that?

I also need to check in-cabin fuses and my electrical system.

Thanks for the suggestions, any other ideas would be appreciated.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

If 5 is true, and 6 is true, then you may get bad news related to #4. RF amps do not have body-mounted fuses, but IIRC, they do require in-line fuses either through the dist block or in an seperate inline fuse holder (in addition to the one near the battery). Do your amps have these fuses?

Do you have a multimeter or a test light? If not, go spend $10 at wal-mart and get one. Check your turn-on signal at the amp, check your 12V+ signal @ the amp, and GET A RELAY for the remote turn-on signal. Trying to turn on multiple caps and amps could overdraw the switched signal and hurt your HU- a costly repair w/ a lot of downtime.

Get a multimeter and get back to us. It will be the best $10 you spent on stero equipment.

Tanman

I have an 80 amp fuse next to the battery, but that's the only one. I think it's actually supposed to be a 60 amp fuse, but it's been working with the 80 amp fuse for a few months now without problems. The distribution blocks don't have fuses. I have some inline fuse holders I can use on the 8AWG power wires going to the amps. I'll check into the relay for the remote turn-on signal, because that's where I think the problem is. The amps should be ok, because neither one will turn on, and the JBL sub amp's fuses are ok. So it might be the HU that is damaged, which would be bad, but would be a good excuse to get the new one I want.

Thanks for the suggestions. Wal-mart, here I come!

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

DEFINATELY get either the inline fuses for the 8 gauge power wires OR det a distribution block with fuses built-in. Either way will make the unit safer (from fire AND damage to components). That investment could save you hundreds of dollars in replacement costs of amps!

Tanman

Hopefully it's not too late already .

For the inline fuses or the distribution block with fuses, what size fuse should I use? I'm guessing 20-30 amp, since the fuses on the amp are that size.

Yesterday when I opened the trunk to check the amps, the first sign of trouble was that it smelled like something had burned. It was a faint smell, but definitely there. I didn't see any sign of damage to anything, but it was dark (battery was disconnected), so I can't be sure until I look at it further.

phenryiv1

iTrader: (19)

It should say in the owner's manual what fuses to use. If not, 25-35, depending on the size (wattage) of the amp.

That smell may mean trouble, but not necessarily.

Tanman

So I bought the multimeter, but I'm kind of bad with electrical components.

Phenryiv mentioned "check your turn-on signal at the amp, check your 12V+ signal @ the amp".

Am I using the ACV test? Where should the test leads go on the amp to test the turn-on signal? Since the turn-on lead is only one wire\one contact, were does the ground test lead contact to?

Same question for the 12V+ signal @ the amp, what test leads connect where to do the test?

Thanks,

jmax

You want it set to test for DC voltage. The negative should go to the ground connection at the amp for both tests. You said in several posts that there are two amps. One is an RF 600.4. What's the other? 80 amps is way too high for an 8 gauge wire running from battery to trunk and then being split and running to two amps. Check your voltage at the cap also, with engine off and again with engine on, then with stereo on. Do this for the test on all three points.

spta97

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure about this? On my JL Audio amps as well as my friends Pheonix Golds there are no fuses. I called both mfrs. and they both said it was not neccessary. Do you need the fuses because they are RF amps?

Tanman

I have an RF600.4 and a JBL 600.1, running off a 4AWG wire from battery to 80 amp fuse to trunk to cap to distribution block (non-fused) split into 8AWG wires that go to each amp. I've had this setup for about 4 months. Previously, I had the same setup but with a 60 amp fuse near the battery.

I did some more testing tonight, but the multimeter didn't help (I blew the fuse by running the wrong test on the battery ). I recharged the cap and wired it up. As soon as I power on the system, the cap charge drops quickly to 1.1 V, but the amps never power on. I tried this test first with the RF amp disconnected, then with the JBL amp disconnected, same problem.

I think it might be the power line from the battery to the trunk because I used the multimeter to test the line before it goes into the fuse holder (18 inches from the battery) and it showed no reading. Then I checked and cleaned the connectors, and there's nowhere it could be grounding out, unless it got cut somewhere under the carpet and is touching the chassis of the car. The rest of my electrical system is ok too, so I doubt grounding is the problem, because I'd guess it would short out everything. The battery is ok too, because I tried two batteries and had the same problem.

Thanks for any help,

Cumalittle

if ur multimeter do continuity test which it should...put it on audible sound or resistance...take ur fuse out and put one red lead on one end and put the black lead on the opposite end...there should be continuity...meaning u should hear a beep from the multimeter or u should read almost zero resistance...if u get "ol" that mean the fuse is open...there are time the fuse appears to look good but it's actually popped from the end...once u proved ur fuse...put it back to normal...go to the first part that distribute the power wire...put meter on volts dc...black lead go to the ground ur using...red lead go to power wire...u should get 12 volts...if u don't then find the open...if u do...go to the next connection point and test...

Cumalittle

or just take ur amp out...pop ur hood...wire the positive to power and remote..then negative to ground...see if ur amp powers on...if it does...then that means amp does indeed power on...if it doesn't then again u have issues w/ the amp...once u have done this process...do the previous advice...

Tanman

I'd try this, but I popped the fuse on the multimeter so it's useless right now.

I doubt the problem is the amps since they are both doing the same thing. I wired the power wire directly to the amps and they won't power on. From what I see, the cap is draining quickly with the system on, so it's not getting power from the battery, so it might be the fuse, but I checked it and it looks good. The test you suggest would be good if the multimeter was working. I'm probably taking it to an audio expert tomorrow to see if he can identify the problem. It'll cost me some money, but I'm still fighting the flu and can't handle the pain of crawling around inside the trunk .

Thanks for the suggestions,

Cumalittle

the reply u quoted me on requires no multimeter...

jmax

"I think it might be the power line from the battery to the trunk because I used the multimeter to test the line before it goes into the fuse holder (18 inches from the battery) and it showed no reading. Then I checked and cleaned the connectors, and there's nowhere it could be grounding out, unless it got cut somewhere under the carpet and is touching the chassis of the car. The rest of my electrical system is ok too, so I doubt grounding is the problem, because I'd guess it would short out everything. The battery is ok too, because I tried two batteries and had the same problem."

If you truly have no power before the fuse, the car would not start. I suspect you did not test what you thought you were testing. If it were grounding out, the fuse would definitely be blown. Are you sure that you are chargeing the cap properly? You should have a good 12.5 volts at the cap, more with the engine running.

Tanman

Sorry, I mixed up my reply . What I meant was, the second test you mentioned, the "amp connected to the battery test" didn't power on the amp, so it's probably the amp?

As for the first test you mentioned, I can't do that one since the multimeter is not working right now.

Tanman

You're right, I was probably reading something incorrectly with the multimeter, but I removed the fuse and measured ACV at the end of the amp power wire (at the fuse holder) and it read 0. That was with grounding to the battery and to the chassis. That's why I thought there was no power to the amp wire.

What you said about grounding out makes sense, so that's good to know that I'm probably not grounding out the amp power wire.

I charged the cap with the charger until the green light goes out. When I hooked it up and powered it on the system, I'd run to the trunk and it would already be at 10V and dropping fast, so I assume it had a full 12.5V charge.

Cumalittle

well if u did the amp to battery test correctly and it did not power up...well hate to tell ya but ur amp is fried...either the fuse on it or the whole thing...if this is the case...take the amp to someone knowledgable so they can do further testing...

Cumalittle

ur car runs on dc (volts)...the amp to battery test that i advise u on...did u run power to the "rmt" terminal also??

Tanman

That's bad, but two amps are having the same problem, so possibly both amps are bad? The JBL has 2 body-mounted fuses and neither are damaged, but it also won't turn on.

The strangest indicator is that when I hook up the cap and turn on the system, the cap will drain quickly! Like it's not getting power from the battery.

Cumalittle

dood rite now u have bigger problems then ur cap if ur amp is not turning on when u run direct power to it...

Tanman

The remote turn-on lead? Yeah I had power to that too. That leads to the other problem I think the system is having, I have a remote turn-on lead from the HU, split into three wires, then a wire goes to each amp and the cap. The cap turns on, but neither amp turns on. So does that indicate anything with the remote turn-on lead?

Tanman

That's what I'm thinking .

I have HIDs, Hella Supertone horns, and the stereo system connected to the battery. Do you think I'm drawing too much juice from the battery?

Cumalittle

well u can buy a relay from almost anywhere...and that will solve ur prob on too much equipment on a single "turn-on" source...i think someone advise this earlier in this thread...

jmax

I don't think he powered the remote turn on. But maybe both amps are fried. That does not explain why his cap is draining with the system turned on. Unless he has a set of power wires hooked up backwards and is grounding out the cap. But is sounds like it is draining slowly, therefore going through a resistance to ground. I still suspect the cap wireing. He will have a dead battery soon if he does not fix this problem.

Please test the leads with the meter set to DC voltage. Get a new fuse. Heck, get three so that you are prepared for the next two times you blow it. After you get the new fuse find a friend who has a little electrical knowledge. If your lucky you might find a female friend with electrical knowledge.

Cumalittle

obviously if everything in ur car is working correctly...the problem is not ur battery...with the info u are giving to me..and with the test i advise u to do...it all leads to the amp....

jmax

Will somebody on this thread please explain to me how he will get power to the amps if the cap can't hold a charge? Forget about the amps if you don't have any power going to them. Worry about the food chain for power in decending order. Alt, wireing, bat, wireing, cap, wireing, fused dist block, wireing, then amps. The only thing after amps on this food chain are speakers.

Tanman

Well, I removed the cap from the setup and wired the power line to the distribution block, then to the amps, and the amps still won't power on. It's possible both amps are damaged. If so, I'll probably get new amps, switch the main fuse to a 60 amp fuse, add a 30 amp fuse at the distribution block, and hopefully they'll be ok.

I've had the current setup for one and a half years (60 amp fuse until about 6 months ago). I guess it's about time they were replaced .

Cumalittle

thas why i told him to do amp to battery test...to eliminate all other element...the positivie and negative post on the battery is the best source of power and ground...if the amp doesn't power up there then it don't matter wat the hell u put after that...shiet still won't power up....now i'm left wondering who did the installation because he sure seem like he don't knoe what's goin on

Tanman

That's cold man. I did the installation myself and it's been working fine for one and a half years. I don't really know what I'm doing, but I know enough to get it working. That's why I'm stumped on this. I don't really understand electrical setups, ohms, voltage, amps, etc.

I didn't do the amp to battery test because I don't want to unmount the amp, disconnect all the lines, and move it (I'm recovering from the flu so I have no strength). If I test it the way you're suggesting, what do I use for the remote turn on lead?

Tanman

From earlier in the thread, the problem is most likely not the following:

battery
cap
speakers

So the problem is with one of the following:

amps
remote turn on lead from the HU
power line from the battery

Thanks for the help,

Cumalittle

sorrie bro..didn't mean to offend u at all...wasn't my intention to do that...it's my bad...i just assumed u didn't do the install urself..well since u didn't do the direct amp to battery test then i'm still assuming that it's a fuse since u wired it up w/o the cap...

Tanman

Hey no prob man, no offense, just messing around . I pretty much jumped in and tried my best and almost got it to work except for a weird ground wire from the HU. I had to take it a local installer to figure it out. But then it worked fine since then until now.

But here's the fun part: I took it to the same installer today, and found out the problem was... tada! The in-line fuse on the amp power line near the battery. Sigh. I know you suggested testing the fuse, but the multimeter was not working by then, so I couldn't. The installer switched to a 60 amp fuse and everything is working ok now.

Lesson to everyone, check the simple things first!

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Hopefully this will help others in the future.

jmax

You still have a big problem. Your system can draw 87 amps of current or more. That's with proper wireing to get a full 14.4 volts. With the tiny power and ground wires that you have the voltage is dropping. As voltage drops current demands go up. You need at least a 2 gauge power wire so that you can increase the fuse to a useful level to allow the system to play cleanly. The installer is correct to install only a 60 amp fuse because the 4/8 gauge wireing can not handle more than that.

Before I said that it sounded as though the cap was draining through a resistive load. That resistance was the incompletly blown fuse. Don't be fooled by the fact that you can now hear your system. Unless you upgrade the wireing it is destined to fail again.

Tanman

Dangit, I was all happy and then you drop this on me .

How do I tell if my system is drawing 87 amps or more?

I originally had the 60 amp fuse and it worked fine for a year and a half. When I rewired everything and moved the amps, I connected some wires incorrectly and kept blowing fuses. To fix that, I switched to an 80 amp fuse, which didn't help, but I continued to use it once I fixed the wiring problem. Yesterday I asked the installer to switch back to a 60 amp fuse because that was the original specification.

The reason I'm going from 4AWG to 8AWG is because both of the amps only accept 8AWG wiring for power and ground. I plan to add fused distribution blocks, but what else can I do if the amps won't accept a larger gauge wire? I could still run a 2AWG power wire from the battery, but I'd still have to use 8AWG from the distribution block.

Thanks for the heads up,

jmax

There is no such thing as an amp that can not accept larger power wire. It's just a matter of deciding how to connect it to the wire you use. The JBL can draw 57 amps max, the RF is recommended to use a 30 amp fuse, per RF. That is, if it is the same as their current 75X4 amp, the 300X. 30+57 = 87 amps. 4 gauge for the minimum length you need is only rated for 65 amps with less than 0.5 volt current drop.

Tanman

I'm not that knowledgable about car audio (as you can tell), so I don't understand the first statement. How can you connect larger wire to the amp than the size of the hole on the amp?

I have the RF 600.4, so I think it's 150X4 @ 2ohms (not sure what ohms I'm running at, so it might be 75X4 @ 4ohms).

I'll check into getting 0AWG amp power wire (running it under the carpet will be a pain!) and splitting it to 4AWG wires to the amps, but I'm still stumped about connecting the larger wires to the amps.