Hey i was thinking about getting some subwoofer's for my car..

I'm not sure what to go with, i listen to like really fast techno music and sometimes hard hitting rock...

So what would be the best setup for my car??

4 8's in two boxes or two 10's in a single box or what???
Thanks

Trance

 

I would go w/ 2 12's. If not that, then 2 10's.

 

The smaller the sub, the better quality punches you'll get. If you go all the way down to 8" you won't get crap for good low tones though. I personally prefer 12" b/c it gives the best all around bass if space isn't an issue. But if i were you, i'd go with a sturdy set of 10" to get the best quality.

 

Will the 10's hit hard and fast enough to keep up with my fast music and what box should i build, sealed or ported or band-pass???

Thanks trance

Also the 10's i'm gonna get will be around 400watts RMS and 600 Max
That should be more than enough for me...

 

yea i listen to a lot of trance and what not...i have a pair of fosgate 10's. they do nicely. and i have them in a sealed box

 

10"s bottom out too much. I say two nice 12"s

 

my tens haven't bottomed out yet

 

I have hadthe following setups, ALL in the same vehicle (3 different Jeep Cherokees) and ALL on the same amp (bridged RF Punch 200ix). Here is the list:

1 12" Orion XTR DVC (sealed)
2 10" RF Audiophile (Large ported)
Same in small sealed
2 12" RF PUNCH (Back when they did not have letter designations) (Sealed)
1 12" RF Punch DVC (sealed)
2 12" RF Punch DVC (sealed)
4 8" Infinity Kappa (sealed)
1 10" Infinity Kappa (sealed)

Of all of those, the 4 8" subs sounded best, hands down. For rock, they were dead-on accurate, and were clean as allgetout without rattling every surface in the car. PLUS, the bet thing about most 8"s is their box size.

Most 10" (small box) require about .60-.66 cubic feet. Most 12"s require 1.0-1.25' and most small box 8"s require about .30-.33' to sound best.

That means that 4 8"s use the same airspace as many 12"s while having the came cone area or SLIGHTLY less.

I have 1 12 in my max now and would GLADLY trade it for 2 8"s, but I lack the money to redo the subs right now, and I lack shop space to build the box.

My recommendation: 4 8" subs.

 

I'd go w/ a bandpass. That's what i have, and it makes the punches sound a whole lot better than just a sealed box. The other cool thing is when you get long low notes, it doesn't rattle, and give a real loud noise. Because of that, you can feel the bass more, rather than hear it.

 

Let's see now. The larger the cone with same brand and model woofers means more air moves at one time. Also normally lower fs. Now if we were reproducing midbass or midrange, the eight's may be better. But I don't think you want midbass or midrange comeing from a dedicated sub channel. I would get the largest sub I can fit. Add to that that a larger sub will be more efficient.


Someone said that four eight's use up less space than a single twelve. No offense but that is generally speaking b.s. If the sub require's 0.33 cubic feet enclosure volume you have to add to that driver displacement and wall thickness for the four seperate subs and enclosures. You will be up to 0.5 cubic feet or more with a really cheap enclosure. That's 2.0 cubic feet for 4 eight's in tiny enclosure's. I'll put a pair of 12 inch brahma's up against any quad of eight's any day. Heck, I'll put a single fifteen up against the quad. Add to that most twelve's use a larger motor system than eight's and have increased suspension travel to move more air.

I laugh every time I see someone post that small subs are tighter than large subs. It is not that small speakers are better at midbass, it's that the larger speaker is so much better at deep bass that if not tuned properly with the enclosure and vehicle the deeper bass drowns out the midbass.

 

First, your last paragraph is fairly correct- most "sloppy" bass in large-sub configurations is due to poor construction/tuning.

That said, I disagree with your assessment of the 4 8"s suck mentality.

Take my setup for example. 1.6 cubic feet total IV, with more flexible mounting locations (the box can be made in many different shapes and still accomodate the woofer size). Try to fit 2 12"s in that size box. Same amp, put my 4 8"s against your brahamas. You cannot do it. Of course if you double the box size to make the right box for the brahama woofers they would sound better, but good luck carrying luggage, and just think of what it does for your ride and handling, especially if it is not between the axles.

I don't get why you say that a box is "cheap" just because it is small. That is just a strange comment to make. Boxes for 8" subs can be much more rigid than boxes for 12"s no matter how much bracing you use. You still have a 12" circle opposite the driver that will be unbraced. That is a potential problem.

In reference to how "deep" the 8"s can go, you still get into subsonic frequencies. If you want to go deeper, then I will know when you are coming down the street because every undamped part of your car will be rattling like crazy. I have always filtered out many of the subsonic frequencies to prevent this.

But in the end, this is all to-each-his-own, so go with what you like.

 

When comparing to similar larger subs the larger will always win. If you have not experienced this, there is something wrong with your set-ups. A 12 inch brahma works wonderfully in less than 1 cubic foot sealed. Also, a single 12 inch brahma will move more air than your four eight's. If you are afraid of using a powerful amp you can switch to a ported enclosure. 500 watts and the ported brahma will redefine your perception of deep and loud with low power.

"I don't get why you say that a box is "cheap" just because it is small. That is just a strange comment to make. Boxes for 8" subs can be much more rigid than boxes for 12"s no matter how much bracing you use. You still have a 12" circle opposite the driver that will be unbraced. That is a potential problem."

- Let me explain. I said cheap because to get an enclosure that is 1.6 cubic feet total volume for four eight's you have to have very thin walls and basically no braceing. I am saying this as if you are the average sub builder. Some could use better materials and better workmanship. But I am addresssing the average installer here. Excuse me if you are not in this category.

Forgive me if I thought the thread starter wanted to get the most bass possible from their set-up. If that is the case, bigger is better. It is true that eight's will generelly speaking have less overall mounting depth. From that aspect the eight's may be easier to mount. But the fact that the single twelve is moving as air as 3-4 eight's more tahn make's up for it for anyone serious about sound.

Let's consider average sub power levels. 200 watts RMS for an eight, 300 watts RMS for a twelve. 200 X 4 = 800 watts RMS. 300 X 2 = 600 watts RMS. Now consider that the telve's are moving more air and 600 watts RMS is less than 800 watts RMS. What makes more efficient use of amplifiers?

 

Now your "cheap" comment makes more sense. Most 8"s would get tossed in 1/2" particlebaord enclosures- good point there. I used 3/4 MDF. We were both right.

I am more in understanding of your "move more air" comment. I ALWAYS forget about excursion as a factor in the total air moved equation.

Lastly, if the guy can power a 12" right, and can build a PROPER box, then a single 12 can be a more simple AND cost effective fway to get good bass.

I was just comparing the 4 8"s to the 2 10"s (as suggested in the initial post). My personal preference is for 8"s due to my affinity for bass over sub-bass. Everyone's listening habits vary- I just prefer 8"s, even though I currently run an underpowered single 12" sub in my trunk now.

 

I moved it from 8 to 10 to 12 to 15 to emphasize the fact that bigger is better. Four eight's or two ten's will depend highly on the exact drivers that are being compared. Some paired eight's may be able to outperform single ten's. But some will not. But most of the time the larger motor systems are reserved for ten inch and larger subs. In fact many companies share motors between their ten and twelve in subs.

 

Right now I have 2 10s in a sealed, mostly fiberglass box with 1000w rms running to them. Due to the alum cone and phat surrounds, these things move air like madness, I continually have to dial down the amp to retain hearing. They punch like anything, very crisp and tight. A good box, good amp, and good sub will make all the difference. 4 8s, very cool though. I dig what I've got now, perfect range for almost all music and the subs are nearly 3 years old and only cost 120 a piece....

 

What subs are these?

 

sorry for butting into this convo but how can a 12 inch driver move more air than four 8's? i figured the four 8's will have more cone surface area than a single 12 inch driver. won't the 8's technically move more air? i just got kinda curious there.

 

I thought the same thing, but when excursion is considered, it tips the scales in favor of a 12" IF the 12" is a high-excursion model.

 

yea that makes sense. i forgot about the excursion factor of the subs.

 

Call me stupid, but what the hell does 4 8" subs do for you? Why not just get 8 6.5", or even 16 4". Seems to me the 2 10" subs is the more logical solution for trunk space, driver choices, wiring options, and ease of installation.

 

Man i must say that you all have greatly improved my knowledge of subwoofers and all have made great points but i'm still as lost as i first started, i don't want to tear down houses i just want some good hard hitting bass once in a while and just some regular easy to listen and talk to people in the car bass..

So guy's just do me a favor and reply with either 4 8's or
2 10's thanks alot for the reply's...

Trance

 

Audiobahn Alum10, the originals, new ones are even better. I pushed em up to 1400 watts a while back, still hit like a beast. Bass so tight it hurts to breathe

 

Okay, as before. For bass bigger is better.

 

2 10's, hits hard and tight yet not too overpowering (at least in my case. i have two RF HE 10s with 400 watts going into them in a sealed box)

 

Ok thanks guy's, i'm going to get 2 10's and seal them up really good, now should i buy a box or build one??

I'm also going to be pushing about 400 to 600 watts in them, now what box to use???

Thanks for all the help guy's..

Trance

 

That's up to you. If you build it yourself, it's a bit of work. You can look at these FAQs to get an idea of what it involves:
rec.audio.car FAQ
JL Audio Tutorials
If you make it yourself and do it right, it will sound better than any pre-made box you will ever find (except maybe the boxes that are made for specific subs, like the JL Audio boxes that are made for specific JL models).

If you buy one made, just make sure it is 5/8" or 3/4" MDF and the correct size for your subs.

 

and if you need more info about box types go here:

http://www.crutchfield.com/infocente...nclosures.html


hope it helps

 

I agree with Kojiro_FtT. The JL audio instructions for building a box are by far the best out there. Sealed is better for your lower fs, and a bandpass will only give a minimum 40Hz output. Anything less is just wasted. Ported boxes are best by far and will give a full sub woofer sound spectrum. So by far the best choice is 2 10"s in a ported box. Also 3/4" MDF is the best choice, and stapling the box together is better. Glue is the key also and ultimately holds the box together, so be mindful that the staples are only to hold the box till the glue sets. Crossbracing a must and also steer clear of boxes with to much parallel "shapedness?" as the sound waves cancel due to destructive interference.

My personal opinion, a JL 12w6v2. The best sub out there, nearly a .64inch excursion, which moves crazy air. Takes up less space than those 2 10's and only requires a maximum of 1.5 cubic feet. http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pd...12W6v2_MAN.pdf gives all the info you need on that. Pretty much i just summerized this page in the above paragraph.

Good luck getting the right sub setup.

 

For subs parallel walls don't hurt too much. As the wavelength of the frequencies being produced is too long to be affected by standing waves for most boxes that can fit in a trunk. There is no problem with waves in the box reflecting in such a manner as to cause cancelation. In fact, it would be desirable as cancelation would mean no source of energy to vibrate the walls. Cancelation in the box would not tranfer to the sound outside the box in a negative manner.

The box design that will work best will depend on the type of music being played, the desired output of the owner and the T.S. parameters of the subs.

 

You guy's are the best thanks alot, i will update on what's up with my sounds system, You guy's should be able to hear me when i'm finished, lol

Trance

 

It's going to be real hard to hear you if I am near my Max.