JMF

Let me start by saying I'm quite knowledgeable about the inner workings of car/home audio systems. I used to work as an installer about 12 years ago (before college) and I have over $15,000 of late model audio equipment in my house.

I already have plans to deal with the midrange/high speakers in my Maxima. My question relates to the development of subwoofers over the years. For example, I KNOW that 10" subs six years ago were better than 12" subs 12 years ago.

Six years ago was the last time I heard any serious aftermarket car stereo, ever since then, I've been pulling stereos OUT of my cars! (for weight)

I want to add ONE sub to the trunk of my Maxima. I plan to build a ported box (dep on mfr's suggestion) to go along with lightly amplified mids and highs. I am going to go with a L7 or a W7, either 10" or 12."

Please give me a recommendation on which sub to install (type/size). I'll welcome an suggestions besides the L7 or W7. Thanks

maxcosity

Yeah, check out places like www.12vlounge.com or www.caraudioforum.com and see what other people are using. You are right, 10s of today are much better than 12s of yesterday. Additionally, companies like ED (Elemental Designs) are coming out with 8" subs which will knock your socks smooth off your feet.

Kevin

JMF

Thanks! I'll let you know what I decide on!

kenji

iTrader: (1)

If you are going to spend the money on a W7 OR L7 (I assume for some serious SPL) I would recommend something that sounds good as well as being really loud. (I'm an audiophile..) Check out Image Dynamics , a/d/s/ RS series, Eclipse, Diamond Audio, Alumapro, and mb quart for starters.

JMF

kenji,
Thanks for the additional notes. I originally considered the W7/L7s because I don't want to skimp out on any equipment. However, no, I'm not looking for big SPL, my main concern is SQ (with adequate SPL), without losing large amounts of trunk space. I'll check out those other brands as well.

Any recommendation on whether I should go with a single 10 or 12 for SQ?

TAPOUT

iTrader: (5)

The 10W7 is, was, and will always be a true SQ sub. The parameters of building a true SQ sub just happen to also make it loud. It is actually based on the (Paul) Klipsch law that states if a speaker has a higher sensitivity it will have less distortion. Now this when taken into consideration on a subwoofer also must take into consideration the enclosure. If you build the correct ported box for the 10W7 you will be blown away with clarity, and have great SPL. The problem remains that to build a ported box it will take up a lot more space. Sealed boxes are very popular because they are small and easy to build. You will need to build a really good box to take advantage of what this sub has to offer. You will also find that if you build a ported box you MUST get an amp to drive it that has a subsonic filter. You will also be able to run twice the recommended power to the sub. I have done a few cars with a single 10W7 and the JL1000/1 amp that rocked and have had no problems.

kenji

iTrader: (1)

Never said that the 10W7 wasn't a good SQ sub. I only said that there are many other options that he should explore. Please find something better to do than follow me around and post childish replies to my posts. If I had the money to blow on a 10w7, I'd surely explore many other options before making my final decision. When a person comes into a forum looking for opinions, that is surely what he or she will get. I have no doubt in my mind that JL audio will once again sweep the sound pound awards and take home the trophies once again with it's NEW w7. Point being that when it comes to imaging and staging, JL Audio is not in fact the top of the charts. There are many options out there that sound much better than the JL stuff, though of course they may not 'bump' as loud.
JMF - Image Dynamics' new IDMAX http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/ has image dynamics usual high sound quality, blended well with some serious spl.

Also check out Adire Audio, an underdog known for the Shiva and Brahma. There's plenty of options out there, and IMO, one 10 or 12 would work great for you. I run a mmats pro 10, and am waiting for an Arc Audio 12 D4 in the mail. For the general listener, one sub can be sufficient, although if space and money are no option, 2 will always make the difference.

ToasterMax

IDMAX or Adire Audio Shiva or XTANT X Series subs. These are the best available and the prices are very reasonable unlike the JLAudio overpriced junk.

Tony Fernandes

I'm actually finding this thread to be very informative. I've always grappled with the decisions of purchasing SQ subs, since most people and reveiwers tend to not associate the words SQ and SUBS in the same sentence. I remember years ago when I bought a 10" Infinity reference standard sub for $140. It was by far the best sounding sub I have ever owned, not to mention the least expensive. I've been tempted to buy a 10W7 based on several reviews I've read, but as many people have indicated in this thread, JL Audio is not the God of subs...but I don't want to dismiss it for that reason alone.

Kenji...you brought up an intersting point about imaging and soundstage. Most people I talk to, including myself, agree that subs "sound" different in terms of SQ, but insist that a subs ability to project itself into the driver's seat in terms of imaging and soundstage depends on installation alone. I disagree. I recognize the importance of sub location and box construction, xover frequency, quality of amplification, and front soundstage. These all affect the subs imaging. However, I am convinced by trial and error alone that different subs sound better in terms of imaging. I can't technically explain it, but have experienced it. I've had people ask me how a sub can image itself better than another if bass frequencies are non-directional. I don't have an answer. Anyone?

Tony

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

Bass imaging is a freaky thing. It's just one of those things that happens, but you can't explain very well. Kind of like where the tread goes off of your tires.

In different cars, the same box will sound different. In the same car and same box, some great subs sound like junk and decent subs sound better than they are. There are so many variables that you can't really piece it all together. At some point, you have to go with what YOU like, not what gets the best numbers (unless you are going into competition).

Years ago, I used to run soundstream reference series 8" subs in a sealed box and I absolutely loved it. My friends laughed until they heard it inside the car.

The sound quality was so good because back then 10s and 12s were too sloppy sounding for nice tight bass. This isn't true today, but I am sure everyone has a certain sound that they really love. Most everyone is going to be different.


I have not heard some of kick @ss systems in a while, but I try to do some research. Kenji is on with the MMats and adire speakers, they are what a lot of people are using at the highest of high end.


For JMF, it seems like you don't have budget issues. Just go to some of the best stereo shops in your area and tell them you want to hear the best they have. Don't d!ck around at Circuit City or Best Buy.

Use YOUR OWN opinion. Hell, there are a hundred guys here that can tell you JL sucks and a hundred more that'll swear W7s are the best subs they've ever heard.

Tony Fernandes

Those SSR subs were the bomb. I tried to replace a 10" I had but they stopped making them. I tried a Soundstream EXACT 10", but was fairly disapointed.

Believe it or not, my 10" JL Stealthbox in my Explorer sounded absolutely awesome. It blended perfectly with the rest of the system (Dynaudio 3-way) and not once could I tell that the sound originated from the rear of the car. I'd love to hear one in my Max, but they don't make them for 5th gens.

Tony

kenji

iTrader: (1)

I'm definately not trying to hate on JL Audio. JL is a company that brought mobile subwoofers to another level. I've run JL's in the past, and was never dissapointed.
However, I'm at the point now where I want to slow down and enjoy the qualities of life. Along with this comes my desire to hear sound how it was truly meant to be heard, which requires a sub that can replicate sound as perfectly as is possible. I'm not concerned with killing my eardrums anymore (which the JL's did more than their share of). I want my dad to be able to drive my car and listen to his music without telling me 'there is way too much bass'
I never wanted to be that guy who has the system you can hear from blocks away, but sounds like crap when you sit in the car. This is the opposite end of the spectrum.

Aside from that junk, I'm wondering of you out there who wants to guess which sub will prevail in my car, the MMATS Pro 10 that I have now, or the amp making monster- Arc Audio's Image dynamic' made-sub ARC12 D4 (the cousin of a IDQ12 D4 with better binding posts and bigger vents.

For those of you who haven't heard either, my MMATS Pro 10 sounds more musical and is harder to bottom out than most 12's. Image dynamics is known for being very high on the SQ sub manufacturer's list, as well as Arc Audio's ability to make amps that push their way to the top of many competitions. Can this hybrid creation of these two quality companies be a winner? We shall see, I will keep you updated on the install of my Arc12 when it comes. Until then.. keep bumpin, enjoy the music, and forget about what people )outside( of your car think.

JMF

Great information from everyone. I originally looked at the L7s and W7s because of the price. Based on my experience with audio equipment, you get what you pay for and these are the most expensive subs I knew of at the time of my original post. I also know that every speaker depends on the car and installation, so I asked for information here so I could find out what works nowadays in Maximas.

I'm spoiled by my home audio now...I can't believe how a good home subwoofer (not Circuit City/Best Buy crap) generates bass so clean that I'm still impressed a year later. It would be great to have something like that in my car (but I'm sure it can't happen).

Please, keep the information coming.

Pearl96Max

iTrader: (151)

Just keep in mind (for the JL fans) That JL has never actually made their own equiptment, especially the w7. In fact the w7 was made/designed by ImageDynamics who didnt have the money to patent or mass produce it, so JL stepped in and bought the rights. The w6V2 was originally intended to be the w7. Yes this is factual, come direct from my JL rep, and BTW he runs Diamond Audio subs in his car.

--Don

zerodeefex

I have to say, check out Elemental Designs A series.
http://www.edesignaudio.com
is their website and the A series is nothing short of amazing. They are right at home in smaller enclosures and have AMAZING power handling. They sound good without pushing a billion watts into them too. Definitely the best sounding subs I have heard in a long time.