Zamochy

Need a good recommendation for an amp to go along with a 12" Adire Brahma.
There are 2 reason I ask this,
1. On the adire web site, the sub has 1600wRMS and 4800wPeak, but they say that the RMS is a thermal rating and that good sound can be reached with significantly less power. I'm not sure as to what exactly they mean by that. I was lookin for an amp that can pull around that RMS, something like 1200-1600wRMS for the amp. Would that be too much power?
2. Non of my friends really do anything with their cars, so I have no one to look to for sound equip. recommendations. I need a good sound quality amp, price is not TOO much of an issue, quality and power are more important.

Please help me out with this. So far I have looked at phoenix gold elite, Auto Tek, and Planet Audio amps. If You have any good recommendations please help me, also try to tell me WHY a specific amp is better than the others.

Zamochy

Ok So Far 2 amps really stick out to me.


1. AutoTek MX 3000.1 - Cheapest I found was $550


2. Phoenix Gold Xenon X1200.1 - Cheapest I found was $434


Any experience with either of these or a recommendation of one over the other, please speak up.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

well first do you want to go ported or sealed? ported boxes are bigger but with a 12" brahma even ported the box is not large at all. also with a ported box it takes significantly less power to reach its full potential. id say give it 500-800 watts in a ported box and you will be amazed. my 4,000th post!!!!!

thephatOne

my experience with audiobahn has been good, i was thinking the a2300hct

mjg

i have an alpine m1000, not the m1001.

Both are great amps, and awesome for tuning with the digital read out display in the front. Class D, efficent, and runs at 2 ohms stable.

It will definatly make that sub hit. I'm switching over to an eclipse 12" titanium im going to use it with. I paid a grand for mine a few years ago, yet they are going for 500ish on ebay new now, you cannot go wrong.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

what slick said.

you don't need to amp it to its limit to get the sub to play stupid loud. currently have mine sealed with 480 watts, and it gets plenty loud.

BlkShadow01

ported is the way to go

2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

what about the hifonics brutus? its 1500watts at 1ohm! and at 2 its 1000. its like 230 on ebay new

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

imo i think that amp is a little overrated. be different and get something else.

Zamochy

the box I'm looking to get is the one that they recommend on the Adire homepage, the Subzero ABC 121 (I think thats the exact name) box. It's a 1.25'sq. and I think that it's sealed...they actually don't say anything about that fact, but I'm assuming. If anyone knows about that box or any other good quality boxes let me know.

Also, I understand your point about the fact that running less power to the sub than the RMS rating will still produce good sound but here is the thing.

1. Exactly how much less is not too little?

2. Assuming that it will sound fine with lets say 900-1000w being pumped to it, will it sound better if I get closer to the actual RMS rating? Like 1400-1600RMS.

As of right now I'm kinda leaning towards the Autotek MX 3000.1 amp. It also happens to be an X-class amp, they are supposedly better than D-Class, if you know anything about that please explain cause I'm in the dark on this one.
It can run:

750 Watts X 2 Channels @ 4 Ohms

1200 Watts X 2 Channels @ 2 Ohms

1500 Watts X 2 Channels @ 1 Ohm

3000 Watts X 1 Channel @ 2 Ohms Mono

So I'm figuring I would run 1200w to the 12" Brahma. You think that'll be fine or too much? I also like this amp because if I ever choose to get another sub, I already have an amp for it. I do need a capacitor to run this setup right?

Last question, If I buy a sealed box is there anyway to make it into a ported box later if I choose so?



The reason I'm leaning towards a sealed box is that it should produce tighter bass. If you read my previous posts you'll know that I have a slight lacking in the midbass dep, so I need the sub to mask that loss a little bit. Slickrick knows what I'm talkin about... I listen to alot of dif music...Mostly Rap, Trance, and....Rap.thats about it I guess...not that much...heh?

NEED BOX RECOMMEND AS WELL !

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

ok well from what ive read the brahmas are not known to do well much over 60hz... it can be done but people have complained about it. and people's response was to get a better front stage. also that 1.25cuft box is large for a brahma 12 sealed.
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco.../adire_brahma/

there it shows how much power they recommened per box size. with the 1.25 cuft you will get amazing low end with some loss in the upper end(like 60-80hz). this is great and all because you need SIGNIFICANTLY less power to reach full excursion but you will not get that high end you want. id go with a 1cuft sealed box and with the displacement of the drive will take it down to a perfect size imo to achieve the higher end you want and some solid low end. however, i'd recommend around a good 800 watt rms amp to compliment it nicely. you will need an amp that puts out 800 watts at 1 ohm or 4 ohms. this is all from research done because i was looking at getting a brahma but decided on my shivas instead. i'd ask fosgate fan how the brahma does on the more midbass area to get a real idea.

Zamochy

Kool, thanx for the quik response time slick. If not the subzero box then what other type would you recommend. Ok you'll have to excuse me...but I really like that subzero box, My mids don't suk totally and my front stage is not bad, I just ordered 50'sq of B-Quiet Ultimate, and I'm gonna put that in like tomorrow, so my mids are gonna get better.

Right now they play fine down to 50khz, anything below that and they start getting distorted at high volume. We'll see if things change after I install the B-Quiet.

I'm looking for that deep powerful bass as well. Tell me this, with the following setup will it sound good?

I got:
1. 6.5" Phoenix Gold Octane-R components in front

2. 6.5" Phoenix Gold Octane-R coaxial in back

3. A Soundstream 480.4 powering the speakers

4. A Pioneer 8400 HU

5. I want to get the 12" Brahma

6. Put into the Subzero Box

7. With the Autotek MX 3000.1 amp pumpin like 1200w to the sub. at 2ohms

8. B-Quiet double layered in the front doors, rear deck, and triple layered in the trunk.

How you think thats gonna be, anything I should change?
I know I need a capacitor in there somewhere.

Zamochy

Ok I'm not sure if thats 50 khz or 50 hz that I meant to say for the speakers...I think it's 50 hz

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

well once you deaden the doors you'll enjoy the increase in midbass. but if you like that box(pricey but prolly the best prefab box out there) id run not much more than 800 watts just to be safe. plus its easier on the electrical system. also did you already buy that h/u?

Zamochy

Yeah I did buy it...for $125 off of a friend of mine, I just got my Max at the time and it had like some 10 year old aftermarket Sony in it, that skipped more than my 10 year old Sony walkman when I ran. It's not the best and not the worst. Why tell me why you commented on that, I actually want to replace it soon with an Eclipse unit.

Order of upgrades.
1. Sub, Amp, Sound Deadner.
2. D2 Coilovers
3. some form of rims other than my hubbies.
4. HU, prob an Eclipse
5. ..........TBA

Slick You stand your ground on that 800wRMS barrier, what do you think will happen when I hook up that MX 3000.1 amp to the Brahma and run 1200w in that box? Honestly tell me now, I'll rather know problems and doubts now than when I buy the ****. Will it sound bad? Will it just explode? will it teleport me to china? what will happen? Will it sound worse than If I just ran less, or just sound the same? Or louder, what will be the changes in going from 800w to 1200w in the sound and the volume?

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

only asked because im selling my 8500 thats all. well simple... in that big box with that much power going to it.. it should overexcurt and blow. see the bigger the sealed box gets... the less power it takes to reach full potential (overexcurt).
0.577 59.8 2.10 500W
0.707 25.9 .92 900W
theres from the site i linked you to. so if your box is 1.25, thats between .92 and 2.10 obviously. so if at .92 it takes 1,000 watts, and you push your subs with lets say 1,500 watts(eventhough the sub will never really see the 1,500 watts due to severe electrical strain) it will overexcurt. now with your even BIGGER box can you imagine what 1,500 watts would do? id email adire and tell them you want to buy the subzero box (the 1.25) and say... what power would you use with this box? then tell me what they say.

Zamochy

You're right of course. But it's this evil little voice inside me thats just screaming "MORE POWER ! ! ! " and I can't quiet him down.

Slick you know what I'm lookin for (Rap, Trance - need good SQ, and SPL).

I wanna be that guy u stand behind on the red light and your enjoying his bass while he's enjoying his bass. You feel me? what type of box should I get to be able to run 1200w to the brahma? maybe I should get that SubZero box and then port it? I think they sell 3" and 4" porting kits on Acoustic-vision. If not maybe a smaller sealed box (do you know of where I can get one?). What amp would you recommend then if I was to listen to your advice and just run 800w to it?

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

lol. listen man.. that subzero box is fine.. with 800 watts. you will love the low end a braham can give. my 2 shivas can shake my walls when i pull up to my apt...imagine what a brahma can do. ill do some amp searcing tomorrow because i need some sleep before my morning final. for rap the big 1.25cuft box is best for that low low bass... but for trance im not quite sure it will be as good... but good enough for sure.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

My midbass is decent after i upgraded my small 4x6s in the front to some 6.5"s

When I had the 4x6s in there, yes the midbass was a bit lacking when I switch over from the RF 10s to the brahma. But it's not as noticeable anymore with the bostons I have up front now. I'll play a frequency sweep tomorrow and get back to this thread with the results.

edit, just read the newer posts. i listen to a lot of trance, and the brahma keeps up just fine. if i want to disturb the peace, i can play some rap to really get that sub moving.

Zamochy

Great ! Thanx for you support !

The MX 3000.1 can pull 2x 750wRMS @ 4ohms
and the MX 1500.1 can pull 750 @ 2ohms

I don't know...really hard to decide on this crap...I don't want to blow a grand or more and end up with wak S H I T .

any ideas on porting that subzero box? or will I loose a lot from the mids?

Zamochy

How is the response time on the Brahmas...some cheaper subs I heard before seems like the bass comes a half a step too late on some more complex beats.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

it keeps up very well. you won't be disappointed. besides trance, i listen to breakbeats every now and then, and they have some pretty fast and complex beats, and the brahma will reproduces it accurately.

Zamochy

Nice......

Maxima Dan

Is it too late to give my .02?

Slickrick gave you some really good advice, nice work.

I actually owned that subzero box, actually the dual 12, and I hated it. Aside from the cool mounting system it's complete crap, and 800W is too much for a B12 in it. 600W is probably more realistic. The JBL 600.1 or something like that should work. I would either build a box yourself or have one of the guys on other audio forums build you one (Mr. Marv, Mr. Cabinetry, etc.). Too bad you are on the wrong coast or I'd let you have the perfect box for a single B12.

Anyway, I would strongly suggest putting the Brahma in a SQ ported box and feeding it around 1200W. I've gone through 4 different boxes with my Brahmas and for some reason they just come alive in a ported box. They sound pretty good sealed, but ported is

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

almost forgot...

I played the frequency sweep today, and can't really hear any gaps. midbass is present and accounted for

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

and the man has spoken... i think ported is the way to go also with a brahma. but listen to maxima dan, he knows his stuff about brahmas. i really thought a brahma could take 800 watts in 1.25 cubes. i guess winisd sux eh?

Maxima Dan

Nah, you calculated that right. 800 is the upper limit in a 1.25 box, net displacement would be 1.08. At 20Hz you would have 52 mm p-p excursion. Your figures are correct. However, from personal experience there is something not quite right about running that box with that much power. All I can say is that when I was running that box with somewhere between 700 and 800 watts it started to make some funky noises. This could also be why I prefer the sound of the Brahma in a ported box since excursion is limited around Fs and there is less chance of tinsel lead slap.

If I was to run a B12 in a sealed box I would simply build a 1 ft^3 box and run around 800 (1000 being the upper limit for this box) watts to it. Save your money on that subzero box and get a ported box or a simple sealed box.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

thats odd.. on my winisd prc (it has all the adire subs in there already), in a 1.25cuft sealed box with 800 watts at 20hz the excursion is 42.7 mm. whats the deal with that?

NightRider

iTrader: (6)

Autotek makes great amps. The MX amp you are looking at is their top of the line amp. It is a class X amp which far surpasses class D.This snippet is taken directly form my Autotek catalog:

" Class-X anmplifiers are highly efficient Mono, Subwoofer Amplifiers, utilizing entire MOSFET circuitry. In addition, proprietary signal processing technology is being used to reduce the current draw under full power conditions, more that any conventional Class A/B & Class D amplifiers.
These Mono-Block Amplifiers are stable into 1-Ohm Mono loads to deliver the highest power possible. You can even Double(Stack) them up to deliver insane power."

Basically, they have a digital circuit instead of analog that offers a cleaner signal for amplification. By providing a cleaner signal, you can amplify more without drawing too much power. This makes the amplifier perform to a higher degree, as if it were a more powerful amp with out drawing any more current than a regular class D at the same rating.

Zamochy

Any ACTUAL recommendations on boxes...I don't really want to wait for someone to build me a box (how long does it take anyway?), so can you point me to any good prefab box makers?

I found this box: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZkDurof...0&I=044H1212SE

It's a 1.25 cubic feet, ported, and sealed....read about it...tell me if it's what I'm looking for. How many watts should I run to the sub in that box?

Also...what are bandpass boxes?

Maxima Dan

That's weird...use LSP cad

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

before you pick a box, pick an amp. also did you say bandpass? im just gonna forget you said bandpass... let alone bandpass with a brahma in it.

Zamochy

The Amp I want is the Autotek MX 3000.1 ...now knowing that...do you have any boxes you can point me to ( at this point I need specific answers and recommendations, because after this weekend I'm gonna be ordering the amp,sub,box, and I'm still not sure wether or not I need a capacitor.)

I've noticed that when I turn the volume up on my system my headlights dim ever-so slightly to the beat of the music. If I use any power accessory at that time the lights dim even more. Do I need a capacitor for my 4 channel amp?

Could I just get one capacitor (if I need one) for both the sub amp, and the speaker amp? What size would I need? Which brands and models?

Help Me Please, I'm Running Out Of Time And Decisions Need To Be Made

Maxima Dan

Well, you would probably be better off paralleling the voice voils on the Brahma and hooking the sub up to only one channel. Basically the amps twice as much as you need...be careful. As far as a box goes if you are looking at a sealed box you should get one really small, something like .75ft^3 gross. Anything bigger and you will have problems with the sub bottoming out on its' suspension. Ported boxes are a bit more tricky.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

also.. if your small 4 channel amp is causing dimming, there is no chance in hell this sub amp will not cause severe dimming. id look into getting a smaller amp, and bigger box to compensate for the less power.

Zamochy

Isn't that what a capacitor does? Stores power so that when the sub or speakers need it it doesn't cause more drain on the rest of your electrical system. If so which cap would I need? Are Q - logic boxes any good?

If I was to build my own box, how would I do that and what material will I need? Do I need some special wood, or I can use anything? how do I mount the sub? Are there time proven designs or is this kinda-of-a freestyle thing?

By the way with you guys leaning on me that that amp is too much then how about a SX-1200X http://www.millenniumaudio.com/2004-SX.htm?

exardus

I've only built one sealed box a few weeks ago, and i'm very pleased the way it turned out. Basically you figure out what internal size the box should be, then you cut 3/4 MDF that you get at lowes or home depot. Cut out the hole for the speaker that's given by the manufacturer, and hole for the speaker terminals. Glue it together, using liquid nails or some other wood glue. Use drywall screws to screw it together. Then seal it on the inside with some sillicone from lowes also. I used a regular bathtub silicone that i had at my house. Works fine. That's basically it, if you care about the looks you can also carpet the box or paint it. I just left mine gheto as is, and i like it that way.

Zamochy

1. how did you mount the sub? U just stuck it in the hole and screwed the basket to the box?
2. Did you use any support for the sub inside the box?
3. What type of wood did you use again? Do denser woods make better boxes? What does it mean that a box has been "tuned" to a certain frequency?
4. Can you use dynamat or b-quiet to insulate the box from inside? Does the type of wood that you use or the thickness of the wood make a difference?
5. Does the shape make a difference?
6. How would you port a box if you wanted to?

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

http://www.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=68635

Zamochy

how about a VBS12 for me? http://www.subzeromfg.com/specs.htm

it's 1.2"^3 vented ....s h i t....This defently got more and more complicated the more I got into this. Are there any tuturials on building a box? Or at least do you know anyone that can build me a box?