Subs in rear DOORS?
05-09-2005, 12:35 PM
#1
Subs in rear DOORS?
Looking to possibly drop 8" or 10" subs in my rear doors after closing them up with lots o dynamat. Anyone done this? There's about 5" of depth so that's not an issue. Looks like the opening can also be increased pretty easily. I'm just wondering 1. If anyone here has done that and 2. what kind of bass I can expect? I'm guessing it will be similar to ab IB setup. If that's the case, I've heard some nice IB rear deck setups with 2 x 10" woofers ...
05-09-2005, 01:37 PM
#2
Possibilities are endless with the right choice in gear and custom work. I'm afraid that big of a driver will MOST DEF pull your stage back. Why not do it up front? A shallow mount 8" will blast some serious midbass and can be crossed over lower.
05-09-2005, 02:02 PM
#3
If you are considering using the doors for your dedicated SUB bass, i dont like the idea for a few reasons....
- i doubt you can find a driver that wont slap the shyt out of the door panel
- you simply dont have the mounting diameter, not even for an 8" in that part of the door
- i dislike subs facing each other sealed or IB, nasty cancellation
- i doubt you can find a driver that wont slap the shyt out of the door panel
- you simply dont have the mounting diameter, not even for an 8" in that part of the door
- i dislike subs facing each other sealed or IB, nasty cancellation
05-09-2005, 03:40 PM
#6
hehe....I put in dedicated mids in my rear doors recently(temporary) and midbass response is so strong it hurts....i feel it smacking the inside of my throat... 
so the subject touched home a bit...
so the subject touched home a bit...
05-09-2005, 04:18 PM
#7
if anyone surfs the icixsound forums, you can find out about a new 6.5" driver that elemental designs is about to release in the next month or so. I'm debating on putting a pair in my rear deck. The frequency response is supposed to be from 1Khz down to 20Hz IIRC. So, this would be a perfect midbass/sub and might be what you're looking for.
lata,
drew
lata,
drew
05-09-2005, 11:05 PM
#9
Originally Posted by GodsmackMAX
if anyone surfs the icixsound forums, you can find out about a new 6.5" driver that elemental designs is about to release in the next month or so. I'm debating on putting a pair in my rear deck. The frequency response is supposed to be from 1Khz down to 20Hz IIRC. So, this would be a perfect midbass/sub and might be what you're looking for.
lata,
drew
lata,
drew
05-10-2005, 11:52 PM
#10
Originally Posted by GodsmackMAX
if anyone surfs the icixsound forums, you can find out about a new 6.5" driver that elemental designs is about to release in the next month or so. I'm debating on putting a pair in my rear deck. The frequency response is supposed to be from 1Khz down to 20Hz IIRC. So, this would be a perfect midbass/sub and might be what you're looking for.
lata,
drew
lata,
drew
i had no crossover on them so they were playing all freq's above 120 hz...but i want to soundproof my front doors now so i figured to put them up front while my dors are gutted...maybe get rid of my subs also. i figure it'll be straight w/good tight bass up front powered properly, and my stock speakers in the back. love the big bass though.
05-12-2005, 09:01 PM
#11
Manny - I plan on doing 8's up front with 4's and tweets in kicks (or maybe just the mids and put the tweets on the pillars for a higher soundstage).
I'm looking to get a 125x4 - 200x4 just for the front stage and get another 200W RMS per side on some 10's in the rear doors. I'm going to try my best to make this happen because I totally believe it's possible with lots of dynamat and a little cutting into the door metal to accomodate the larger opening. Considering another amp mounted on the underside of the rear deck to power some optional tailgate components on the underside of the trunk lid or something and a single, mono, 2 way rear fill speaker for rear passengers on the top side of the rear deck ... as stealth as possible (they always complain when in my car about not having rear speakers) with the amp for that switched separately up front.
My dreams for now ... but they may become a reality Those rear doors are definitely workable.
I'm looking to get a 125x4 - 200x4 just for the front stage and get another 200W RMS per side on some 10's in the rear doors. I'm going to try my best to make this happen because I totally believe it's possible with lots of dynamat and a little cutting into the door metal to accomodate the larger opening. Considering another amp mounted on the underside of the rear deck to power some optional tailgate components on the underside of the trunk lid or something and a single, mono, 2 way rear fill speaker for rear passengers on the top side of the rear deck ... as stealth as possible (they always complain when in my car about not having rear speakers) with the amp for that switched separately up front.
My dreams for now ... but they may become a reality
Those rear doors are definitely workable.
05-13-2005, 05:26 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 951
i agree with manny. i say go with some good components and then amplify them, you'll get all the mid rage bass u can get from that. i have infinity kappa perfect 6.1 compnents up front and they are amplified, they sound amazing in the mids and highs. i get the low bass from 2 12" orions in the trunk, best set up!
05-13-2005, 06:30 AM
#13
Ugh ... I'm looking for REAL advice. Not talk about your system and how your 6.5's bump.
I'm talking about real deal BASS, not midbass. I would have no subs in the trunk, they would only be in the doors and would be set to play 80Hz and below.
What Manny said that was true ... is that it could detract from your soundstage. He's right ... but only if you have weak components up front with lackluster amp power. I'm planning on putting more watts to my components up front than to my subs.
I'm talking about real deal BASS, not midbass. I would have no subs in the trunk, they would only be in the doors and would be set to play 80Hz and below.
What Manny said that was true ... is that it could detract from your soundstage. He's right ... but only if you have weak components up front with lackluster amp power. I'm planning on putting more watts to my components up front than to my subs.
05-13-2005, 06:54 AM
#14
Big Ham....I share your enthusiasm as there's nothing more exciting than trying something different. Without typing out a bible I'll share some points with you that you may want to consider.
* Two subs facing each other will cause cancellation. You'd have to angle them upward a bit to avoid that and given the size of the driver and the door it will be very difficult to avoid without having the sub come out into the passengers leg space.
* IB or not, a sub should NEVER share front or rear airpace or it will blow. With that in mind we are talking of sealing the WHOLE door off- so that none escapes between the door panel and the cabin- even the holes on the bottom of the door where water that comes from the outside(rain) drains out of your doors. You seal that off you will accumulate water over time.
*Caraudio subs are designed to work best using the cars reflections creating 4th order octave integration into your fronstage. Why do IB rear deck setups sound good? Because it reflects off the rear glass and uses the cabin to blend in bass response with your fronstage up front. As well as a trunkbox setup, an IB REAR DECK setup can play in the way that the bass feels as if its coming from the fronstage(as it should be) because its more ear level. Subs that low in the door will have you knowing its coming from below and back of you-not good.
*Sub duty in those doors is not ideal. That big of a driver simply needs more airspace to dig deep enough to produce bass 45hz and lower.
* From an SQ standpoint its imaging nightmare. What you are planning is more of a showcar/'anything goes' approach were of course anyone who adds more speakers and more power will theoretically get louder- but will it sound good?
* You are looking at hacking your panels and door structure, putting alot of work -where the gain will be disappointing. Someone running a 10" in the rear deck IB off 150rms will be playing lower , possibly louder, and it will sound better than what you are planning to do.
* I see nothing wrong with using an 8" or 10" as a midbass driver-heck competitors are known to do so- but to play sub bass in a door is a whole different scenario. I mean think about it- some people have to put their 6.5" midbass drivers in enclosures to be able to play as low MIDBASS as possible on their fronstage because the doors cannot produce the results desired. Now you are talking of putting Subs in the doors and playing sub frequencies in less than adequate airspace. Having put subs in enclosures smaller than recommended I can tell tyou you will get snappy, no guts low end response with severely lacking output.
If you are itching for a sweet IB setup, start hacking your rear deck and put a pair of 10 or 12's back there and you'll achieve superb results
* Two subs facing each other will cause cancellation. You'd have to angle them upward a bit to avoid that and given the size of the driver and the door it will be very difficult to avoid without having the sub come out into the passengers leg space.
* IB or not, a sub should NEVER share front or rear airpace or it will blow. With that in mind we are talking of sealing the WHOLE door off- so that none escapes between the door panel and the cabin- even the holes on the bottom of the door where water that comes from the outside(rain) drains out of your doors. You seal that off you will accumulate water over time.
*Caraudio subs are designed to work best using the cars reflections creating 4th order octave integration into your fronstage. Why do IB rear deck setups sound good? Because it reflects off the rear glass and uses the cabin to blend in bass response with your fronstage up front. As well as a trunkbox setup, an IB REAR DECK setup can play in the way that the bass feels as if its coming from the fronstage(as it should be) because its more ear level. Subs that low in the door will have you knowing its coming from below and back of you-not good.
*Sub duty in those doors is not ideal. That big of a driver simply needs more airspace to dig deep enough to produce bass 45hz and lower.
* From an SQ standpoint its imaging nightmare. What you are planning is more of a showcar/'anything goes' approach were of course anyone who adds more speakers and more power will theoretically get louder- but will it sound good?
* You are looking at hacking your panels and door structure, putting alot of work -where the gain will be disappointing. Someone running a 10" in the rear deck IB off 150rms will be playing lower , possibly louder, and it will sound better than what you are planning to do.
* I see nothing wrong with using an 8" or 10" as a midbass driver-heck competitors are known to do so- but to play sub bass in a door is a whole different scenario. I mean think about it- some people have to put their 6.5" midbass drivers in enclosures to be able to play as low MIDBASS as possible on their fronstage because the doors cannot produce the results desired. Now you are talking of putting Subs in the doors and playing sub frequencies in less than adequate airspace. Having put subs in enclosures smaller than recommended I can tell tyou you will get snappy, no guts low end response with severely lacking output.
If you are itching for a sweet IB setup, start hacking your rear deck and put a pair of 10 or 12's back there and you'll achieve superb results
05-13-2005, 07:08 AM
#15
Manny, whose are GREAT points. Some I have considered, some I have not. Angling drivers I already planned on. Also, you make a good point that subs use car's reflections.
Because this has never been tried, I wonder what the bass function would be. You could be correct that it will suck, but Earl Zausmer's car about 10 years ago with 15's in the kickpanels supposedly sounded great. Now, this is direct bass and certianly won't adjust your soundstage negatively, but probably put out very nice bass (in regards to this 4th order function we're discussing.
As for IB setups, I understand you should not be sharing airspace. With the doors closed, the weather stripping would separate the very front of the door panel from anything behind it after some serious dynamatting of the rest of the panel.
Anyway, without addressing each point, you make LOTS of good points. I understand how all of this works, as I have been doing this probably as long as you have (10+ years), and I also agree that IB in the rear deck would be much better performance. I was just looking to save my rear deck from hacking ... but it may be unavoidable.
A friend of mine, who competed, had 2 10" Kappa (green cone) 10's in the rear deck of his little '89 accord and I think it had some of the best bass response I've ever heard. They were getting 600W total.
Still thinking about all of this and my stereo is many months out as I save money for it, but I can guarantee this one thing ... you will all definintely be some of the first to see it.
Thanks Manny (for the "real" response I was talking about)!
Because this has never been tried, I wonder what the bass function would be. You could be correct that it will suck, but Earl Zausmer's car about 10 years ago with 15's in the kickpanels supposedly sounded great. Now, this is direct bass and certianly won't adjust your soundstage negatively, but probably put out very nice bass (in regards to this 4th order function we're discussing.
As for IB setups, I understand you should not be sharing airspace. With the doors closed, the weather stripping would separate the very front of the door panel from anything behind it after some serious dynamatting of the rest of the panel.
Anyway, without addressing each point, you make LOTS of good points. I understand how all of this works, as I have been doing this probably as long as you have (10+ years), and I also agree that IB in the rear deck would be much better performance. I was just looking to save my rear deck from hacking ... but it may be unavoidable.
A friend of mine, who competed, had 2 10" Kappa (green cone) 10's in the rear deck of his little '89 accord and I think it had some of the best bass response I've ever heard. They were getting 600W total.
Still thinking about all of this and my stereo is many months out as I save money for it, but I can guarantee this one thing ... you will all definintely be some of the first to see it.
Thanks Manny (for the "real" response I was talking about)!
05-13-2005, 07:16 AM
#16
lol this IB discussion has me thinking of hacking my own rear deck....Perhaps you've seen Jason Winslows IB setup...
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/gallery/jason_winslow
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/gallery/jason_winslow
05-13-2005, 07:26 AM
#17
Wow, I hadn't seen that. I also was thinking about horns, but worried about fitment and retaining the OEM look I'm going for.
What's up with the IDQ10 in the glovebox? Wouldn't that throw off soundstage as well? Novel idea for sure tho ...
FYI ... some of the best setups I ever heard were IB. Same guy with the accord did IB in his prelude, but not in the rear deck. He took 2 Soundstream SPL Mules and sealed them off pointing at the rear seats. Still sealed the rear deck too in order to separate properly ... but man that was some SERIOUS bass. Clean, tight, and those subs could handle the power (they actually sounded better IB than they ever would sealed/ported in terms of SQ). I wish I still had the pics of his install ... maybe I can find them.
What's up with the IDQ10 in the glovebox? Wouldn't that throw off soundstage as well? Novel idea for sure tho ...
FYI ... some of the best setups I ever heard were IB. Same guy with the accord did IB in his prelude, but not in the rear deck. He took 2 Soundstream SPL Mules and sealed them off pointing at the rear seats. Still sealed the rear deck too in order to separate properly ... but man that was some SERIOUS bass. Clean, tight, and those subs could handle the power (they actually sounded better IB than they ever would sealed/ported in terms of SQ). I wish I still had the pics of his install ... maybe I can find them.
05-13-2005, 10:31 AM
#18
i say stray away from subs in rear doors and go IB in the rear deck...its just easier and probably easier to make it sound good too. i have seen 2 brahma 10's in a firebird front doors but the guy who did it knows his stuff. 
05-13-2005, 12:41 PM
#21
Originally Posted by slickrick
no offense but ED sux and thats the bottom line. they claim no more preorders but what are they doing with the eu7000 or w/e they call it, another form of a pre order. also id love to hear that speaker play a 20hz note.
Thanks,
drew
05-13-2005, 02:30 PM
#22
there is so much "dirt" i can dig up but no their subs do not suck. only personal experience i have is with them about 3 years ago with an 12K "econe" and it blew on rated power and all they could do was try toforce my roomate to buy a 12E instead for $200 more. however, if you are looking for a good warranty they are good. what 12 did you plan on buying?
05-13-2005, 03:40 PM
#24
jesus if i didnt recommend an avalance 12 or 15 I'd might as well jump off a bridge...call Chad at www.ascendantaudio.com. $200 for 12 and $225 for the 15 plus shipping. tell him Rich sent you. 800 watts is perfect for the 12 or 15 at 4 ohms and will have better sq and reliability for sure.
800 watts is perfect for the 12 or 15 at 4 ohms and will have better sq and reliability for sure.
05-13-2005, 04:41 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 719
If I didn't swear to stop spending money on this setup I would do Aperiodic 8s in the rear doors. Plenty of room and they would sound amazing. There is agreat aperiodic write-up somewhere...can't remember where though. Find some shallow mount 8" subs that fit the criteria, get some glass and an angle grinder.
05-13-2005, 08:58 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by slickrick
jesus if i didnt recommend an avalance 12 or 15 I'd might as well jump off a bridge...call Chad at www.ascendantaudio.com. $200 for 12 and $225 for the 15 plus shipping. tell him Rich sent you. 800 watts is perfect for the 12 or 15 at 4 ohms and will have better sq and reliability for sure.
800 watts is perfect for the 12 or 15 at 4 ohms and will have better sq and reliability for sure.dh
05-14-2005, 08:55 AM
#29
i should but you need OT access on that forum... i almost got into it about how they did some "spl' testing on their drivers but as we all know, i know nothing about that. lets just say they used a 2,400 watt tone generator and played a sub until basically failure to give "accurate" spl levels. i mean come on, who will ever put that much power to an "11" inch sub?
lets just say they used a 2,400 watt tone generator and played a sub until basically failure to give "accurate" spl levels. i mean come on, who will ever put that much power to an "11" inch sub?
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