Why did you even start this thread, since you seem to already know it all?

Back to the discussion of Pre-Outs... IMO there could be an advantage to having higher voltage pre-outs. If the system has a noise floor of say, .5V, that noise would make a lot more difference on a 2V signal than an 8V signal. Especially if the switching circuits are already on the ragged edge for the 2V system.

Personally, I think that install should be taken out of the equation (meaning we assume a perfect install on all components of the system), or should be first on everyone's list. Afterall, if you hook the stuff up incorrectly (i.e. solder one speaker wire to the basket, and the other to the magnet, or use a floating ground instead of a solid ground), no matter how much money you spent on it, no matter how precisely you measured/cut/fabbed your sub boxes, no matter what else, the ish either isn't going to work or it may work, but not nearly as well as designed.

 

I believe the HU does play a big part in SQ. I could tell the difference when I switched from my Alpine PXA-H600 and CDA-7949 to my Alpine CDA-7998(the 7998 was not up to the same level). All the settings and equipment were the same for both. This was also the case when I changed the 7998 for my Pioneer HU (too much bling for me though) and finally my Eclipse CD8454, and I am once again . Multibit DAC's from my experience produce better sound.

 

well how can i be wrong on an opinion based thread? i may not know much but ive been through 5 headunits, and i could tell the difference between each. im not talking preout put voltage, im talking straight to the speaker cleaness. i mean a hu to an amp, is basically the amp giving it that good sq [i dont know if im wrong or not correct me]. my last hu, was an alpine and the worst hu i had was the xplod hu, and i couldve tell the difference right away. matter afact im getting my eclipse hu soon so i should tell even more of a difference compared to my garbage clarion hu i have right now.

 

If you can hear subtleties like that between headunits (unless every one was different in a way JVC differs from McIntosh), you should be an IASCA judge ... maybe even in the Guinness Book for such superior ears.

And for the record ... my wife has an Eclipse and I have had many Alpine's and the difference, if any, is neglegible. I never saw a forum so stuck on one brand of headunit like this forum is. I know Don sells it and all, but the statements I see saying Alpine SQ sucks now, I completely disagree with based on my experience and that of my colleagues.

 

no im not bashing alpine or nothing, ive never heard an eclipse so i cant say nothing.
Bigham, if you take out your aftermarket hu and put back the stock one, i guarantee you, you will hear a difference.

 

then again you could have a shietty *** hu and a good processer and still have a banging **** system.

in sq competitons i doubt ppl would use a jvc over a nakaminchi, that has to tell you something right there

 

i know the systems i had werent all that, but when i switched my older 9823 hu to the higher model alpine hu at the audio store just to see how it sounded, that hu made all the difference.

Im not trying to challenge you or nothing BigHam im just stating my experiences, and from your previous posts i know you know much more than me so im not trying to go up against you or nothing, thats just what i think and my thoughts

 

That's a line level conversion, numnuts. Apples to oranges. Even that can sound good, but much of the time an aftermarket headunit with INTEGRATED RCA outs will sound better.

That's for competition ... if you read my posts with any attention to detail, I'm talking about the 99% of the population that doesn't compete and has no need for competition grade gear for their 15 minute drive to and from work/school.

I specifically said unless you are comparing JVC to McIntosh. What this means is JVC vs. Panasonic vs. Sony vs. Pioneer vs. Kenwood vs. Eclipse, etc, etc is a relatively stupid subject in terms of SQ. I'll agree that they all might have slightly "different" sounds, but most are acceptable for 99% of the population. You will not find serious competitors using a $300 head unit and this is generally because they are using reference/audiophile grade amplifiers, processors and speakers. Someone in the 99% should chose based on ergonomics, looks, and functionality before buying based on a price tag and competition grade.

 

OEM units are usually tweaked from the factory to some sort of EQ curve, depending on outboard amps, speakers, and the size of the vehicle it's being put into. So while I agree with you 100%, I don't believe that's a fair comparison.

Tony

 

i bought my eclipse for SQ comp as well as all my other components and my eclipse sounds better than my Pioneer DEH-960 did. So i guess i should be a judge then

 

ok guys lets not forget who is posting here... its 2 da max. before he spoke to me about audio he was infatuated with Alpine. if you can search, look for posts in this audio room then learn to ignore him.

 

I don't want to ignore him, I want him to shut his mouth and start to learn by reading and not try to tell everyone what they should do since he knows jack ****.

CreativeDesignz - You think because your Eclipse sounds different than your Pioneer that it's necessarily better? You don't think that perhaps your sense of hearing is influenced by your brain's tendancy to think Eclipse is better to begin with?

I'm not denying it's possible that your Eclipse really is better than your Pioneer, but if you weren't competing, would you NEED to step up to Eclipse? Did you personally think your Pioneer sounded like crap when you had it?

I'm kind of trying to prove a philosophical point on an audio forum, but stuff that sounds "different" to us we may interpret as "better" when in fact we either 1. can't really hear the difference, it's all in our head or 2. when it comes down to it, it only sounds "different" and we like to tell everyone to buy one because it will "definitely sound better".

I tend to say that #1 is usually the reason. Marketing is a huge mind game and the reason there is so much marketing and market research is because they know the mind is easily influenced and they go for it. It's like the placebo effect - but in the form of magazine ads and TV commercials, etc.

 

no i dont think my pioneer sounded like crap at all. i think becuase i have more tuning ability with the eclipse than i did with the pioneer it sounds better. I dont think i needed to get an eclipse unit for SQ but i compete and the price of the unit was awesome so i jumped on it...$850. i did just buy it for SQ i bought it for its components that its made with, and the fact taht i can add onto it with no problems with all the extra outputs u get. My DEH-960 is the best pioneer unit NON dvd player and the non digital one that is made. It sounded great dont get me wrong but i think i can tweak alot more with the eclipse. The eclipse is alot harder to use and the interface on the pioneer was a hell of alot easier to use.

 

Like I said there was an audible difference when I switched from my previous Alpine setup to the 7998 and 7894 (I am sure it has to do with the four 20bit Burr Brown DAC's in my previous Alpine setup). I changed this stuff out several times to make sure (I actually had two 7998's). If my old Alpine setup could have read CD-R's I would have kept it.


I wanted to stick with Alpine but I was not happy with their current offerings. They did not sound like my old Alpine stuff. I do not know how great my hearing is now as it has not been tested since I was a teenager (was great at that time), but I am able to hear a difference. To me it would have been a lot easier to keep my 7998, but I wanted better sound than it offered (my comparison at the time was my old Alpine setup). I try not to let the hype get to me and try to have an open ear. When listening to the different HU's, I listened to many CD's over and over and over again with different type's of music. After many hours of listening I was convinced that there was a diffence.

 

I don't know it all. In fact, there's so much I still have to learn. But, as you've noticed, I do like to argue about something when I believe I'm right. I tend to keep my mouth shut when I'm not sure about something. I just sit back and read and learn.

Although I agree with you 100% that the install should be number one on the list, I don't think it should be left OFF the list. You can assume that the install is always going to be perfect, but I believe EVERY system can be improved upon by playing around with the install...particularly speaker placement. As far as SQ goes, I can't think of too many things that can have such a drastic affect on the way a system sounds (other than the speakers themselves).

Tony

 

[QUOTE=Big_Ham]I don't want to ignore him, I want him to shut his mouth and start to learn by reading and not try to tell everyone what they should do since he knows jack ****.
[QUOTE]


DUDE!! how the fawk im i telling ppl what to do? he stated whats the most important order of a nice sq system. and i said hu's as the primary. you said no, and i said change your hu back to oem and tell me theres no difference. you then said of course there will be a difference but thats comparing apples to oranges. if theres a difference then obviously hu is an important factor. right? thats just my opinion, your going to argue about my opinion instead of correcting it? then saying i dont know jack shiet? maybe i dont, why dont you explain why the hu doesnt make a difference in sq then?

correct me if im wrong but isnt the headunit the brain of the system? and the speaker the weakest link of a system?

 

lol...ALMOST a legit argument from 2 da max...

 

 

damn, haven't seen 2damax post like that in awhile

 

[QUOTE=2 Da Max][QUOTE=Big_Ham]I don't want to ignore him, I want him to shut his mouth and start to learn by reading and not try to tell everyone what they should do since he knows jack ****.
Comparing a OEM HU to aftermarket IS apples to oranges. Would you compare a stock engine to a built one? No. Hence the reason for his post.

BTW..the weakest link is having Avi Install it !

 

O and Avi....no name calling, K?

 

yea but which ones sounds better? a built one right? of couse.


dam Don you messing up my flow... i feel littel again

 

LMFAO!

 

LOL Don i edited it for you, didnt mean to get carried away with all thatjyrations

 

Of course, the aftermarket one does, thats why he said it wasnt a fair comparison.

....Thats my job

 

 

hhm, i need to go and read at bcae1.com and ill be back

 

well i got bored reading shiet from bcae1.com but i found it!! rcas carry high voltages therefore transmission between sq

 

and while you are at it get a cat scan...

 

Buahahahahahahaha, you read for ONE MINUTE

 

....or is that how long ONE sentence took you?

 

o car audio master please elaborate for the common folk...

 

i dont know i was looking at the pictures, its cool you get to play with the volumes and it tells you if its clipping or not, shet according to that my previous system was clipping at volume 6.. o well its gone now

 

Doesnt take much to amuse you huh?

 

BTW Avi...since we all saved you many times, you should be posting in mine,Gordons,Kevins,Richs,etc trader ratings.

 

hey Don i got a great way for me and you to make madd money, you sponser my car and ill drive it around and ppl will be like. woowowo! nice system we got to go to Don, and youll make madd money.!! its a win win situation.

 

its a win win for you cuz you will rip the **** out of your car then dip off to the flea market/street corenr you bum...

 

not if he hooks me up with that 711 or whatnot viper alarm :chucllkle/:

 

hahaha low blow there rich

he'll sponser me, kevin, or rich before avi there's no 3rd gen pimped out with diamond equipment

 

dam guys its 10 to 3 i got to go the fawk to school tommorow. i need to graduate and be a doctor.. later guys